Greg Weaver Reviews Center Stage 2 In Positive Feedback

[Steve williams]

It's very simple Ron and it applies to any piece of equipment. Unless and until someone has had the experience of auditioning something like CS feet in their system, their comments IMO are based on false or zero knowledge.

 

[Bodhi]

I've just finished reading Greg's review of the CS2 feet, and I have to say he went through a thorough and logical process of comparing the old and new feet, including removing the CS1 feet and resetting for several days - then installing a full set of CS2 feet of identical size initially for comparison. Imho Greg did a very good job of descrbing the areas and level of improvement in his system vs the original feet, then again with the larger size feet. As a potential buyer, I for one found it a very helpful review.

 

[Steve williams]

I've just finished reading Greg's review of the CS2 feet, and I have to say he went through a thorough and logical process of comparing the old and new feet, including removing the CS1 feet and resetting for several days - then installing a full set of CS2 feet of identical size initially for comparison. Although not strictly an a-b-a comparison, imho Greg did a very good job of descrbing the areas and level of improvement in his system vs the original feet, then again with the larger size feet. As a potential buyer, I for one found it a very helpful review.

I have read all of the reviews to date on CS feet and I felt it was the most comprehensive as he described in great detail the things he heard in simple terms. I too thought it very helpful for potential buyers

 

[Joe Whip]

I thought that this would be a good time to write about my experience with the CS2 footers. I have been intrigued by these footers for awhile due to the claims made about them and my experience as well as that of others in our area audio group have had using damping material inside of our Yggy 1 DACs. We found that with the damping material, we heard a quieter DAC, which enabled better low level detail coming through, better separation more of the room with live recordings. Not a huge improvement to be sure, but a noticeable one. Of course, the damping material had to be removed when the DAC was returned to Schiit to be upgraded to the Yggy 2. When that returned, the sound was so much better that I thought there was no need try the damping material again.
However, I was still intrigued by the footers.
It was not until my good buddy Doug White of The Voice That Is informed me that he was now a dealer, that I was able to try a set of 4 under my DAC. Much to my surprise, they worked. I heard the same type of improvement that I heard with the damping of the original Yggy only more so. After placing the footers in place, I ran music through the DAC 24/7 for over a week, listening each day to see if I heard a change. I heard a gradual, if slight, improvement each day until about a week in. It sounded like I could hear further and deeper into to the sound stage. There was more low level detail, for want of a better expression, a blacker background. There was greater separation of the instruments which also sounded more life like. Instruments like horns had more of a distinct place in the soundstage. Bass was deeper and tighter. You could hear things like a finger sliding up and down an upright bass string better. Kick drums especially live jazz recordings had more of a you are there sound. I did not hear a wider soundstage. I did not hear instruments or vocals sound like they were in front of the speakers. What I did hear was more of the recording and more of what I love about the sound of my room. A soundstage laid out before you with depth, punch and finesse and a very natural sound.

Yes, the footers are not inexpensive. They did not transform my system. Maybe they would if I had them under everything. Who knows. That will not be happening though. What they did do was improve the sound of my room. Doug did not get the loaner set back. Many thanks to Doug White for the opportunity to hear the footers in my system. This is a tweak which actually works. Well done to the folks at Critical Mass Systems.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It's very simple Ron and it applies to any piece of equipment. Unless and until someone has had the experience of auditioning something like CS feet in their system, their comments IMO are based on false or zero knowledge.

You know from my post above that I agree with this completely.

 

[Steve williams]

I thought that this would be a good time to write about my experience with the CS2 footers. I have been intrigued by these footers for awhile due to the claims made about them and my experience as well as that of others in our area audio group have had using damping material inside of our Yggy 1 DACs. We found that with the damping material, we heard a quieter DAC, which enabled better low level detail coming through, better separation more of the room with live recordings. Not a huge improvement to be sure, but a noticeable one. Of course, the damping material had to be removed when the DAC was returned to Schiit to be upgraded to the Yggy 2. When that returned, the sound was so much better that I thought there was no need try the damping material again.
However, I was still intrigued by the footers.
It was not until my good buddy Doug White of The Voice That Is informed me that he was now a dealer, that I was able to try a set of 4 under my DAC. Much to my surprise, they worked. I heard the same type of improvement that I heard with the damping of the original Yggy only more so. After placing the footers in place, I ran music through the DAC 24/7 for over a week, listening each day to see if I heard a change. I heard a gradual, if slight, improvement each day until about a week in. It sounded like I could hear further and deeper into to the sound stage. There was more low level detail, for want of a better expression, a blacker background. There was greater separation of the instruments which also sounded more life like. Instruments like horns had more of a distinct place in the soundstage. Bass was deeper and tighter. You could hear things like a finger sliding up and down an upright bass string better. Kick drums especially live jazz recordings had more of a you are there sound. I did not hear a wider soundstage. I did not hear instruments or vocals sound like they were in front of the speakers. What I did hear was more of the recording and more of what I love about the sound of my room. A soundstage laid out before you with depth, punch and finesse and a very natural sound.

Yes, the footers are not inexpensive. They did not transform my system. Maybe they would if I had them under everything. Who knows. That will not be happening though. What they did do was improve the sound of my room. Doug did not get the loaner set back. Many thanks to Doug White for the opportunity to hear the footers in my system. This is a tweak which actually works. Well done to the folks at Critical Mass Systems.

Congratulations Joe in discovering just what these feet do. They take you further into the music. You become immersed. Hence the name Center Stage

I feel confident in saying that having a set under your preamp and amps could be a game changer but for now I’m glad you’re smiling.

 

[Joe Whip]

Not in this year’s budget. Maybe if the market recovers.

 

[marty]

I thought that this would be a good time to write about my experience with the CS2 footers. I have been intrigued by these footers for awhile due to the claims made about them and my experience as well as that of others in our area audio group have had using damping material inside of our Yggy 1 DACs. We found that with the damping material, we heard a quieter DAC, which enabled better low level detail coming through, better separation more of the room with live recordings. Not a huge improvement to be sure, but a noticeable one. Of course, the damping material had to be removed when the DAC was returned to Schiit to be upgraded to the Yggy 2. When that returned, the sound was so much better that I thought there was no need try the damping material again.
However, I was still intrigued by the footers.
It was not until my good buddy Doug White of The Voice That Is informed me that he was now a dealer, that I was able to try a set of 4 under my DAC. Much to my surprise, they worked. I heard the same type of improvement that I heard with the damping of the original Yggy only more so. After placing the footers in place, I ran music through the DAC 24/7 for over a week, listening each day to see if I heard a change. I heard a gradual, if slight, improvement each day until about a week in. It sounded like I could hear further and deeper into to the sound stage. There was more low level detail, for want of a better expression, a blacker background. There was greater separation of the instruments which also sounded more life like. Instruments like horns had more of a distinct place in the soundstage. Bass was deeper and tighter. You could hear things like a finger sliding up and down an upright bass string better. Kick drums especially live jazz recordings had more of a you are there sound. I did not hear a wider soundstage. I did not hear instruments or vocals sound like they were in front of the speakers. What I did hear was more of the recording and more of what I love about the sound of my room. A soundstage laid out before you with depth, punch and finesse and a very natural sound.

Yes, the footers are not inexpensive. They did not transform my system. Maybe they would if I had them under everything. Who knows. That will not be happening though. What they did do was improve the sound of my room. Doug did not get the loaner set back. Many thanks to Doug White for the opportunity to hear the footers in my system. This is a tweak which actually works. Well done to the folks at Critical Mass Systems.

I've known Doug White for over 40 years. Doug is the real deal (as are the footers!) and a great guy. Also, he's very knowledgeable about music, especially jazz- a rarity among dealers. Tell him I said hi. Marty

 

[marty]

I'm sure they are an improvement - but it doesn't do a service to your product to claim a set of feet is equivalent to a $325,000 upgrade in this hobby.

Would Mr. Weaver think a set of feet is a bigger improvement than Ultra 11s? I highly doubt it.

I'm sure Mr. Weaver wouldn't mind getting a loaner pair of Ultra 11's to find out!

 

[Leif S]

I'm sorry Greg doesn't like constructive criticism. But I don't deal in personal attacks - to which his post was littered so much with them I have multiple messages about how unfair they were. This post was so PeterB by nature - the whole separating the wheat from the chaff by the ones who "really know."

The sad part is that if Greg knew me in person he would never have written that post - maybe he can start by reading my recent speaker search thread if he thinks I'm a simple troll. I love this hobby - and love the people in this hobby including the numerous industry types, designers, dealers, and manufacturers I know personally. But just as I told a reviewer friend that his Wilson Alexia review read like the Robb Report or when I gave Steve Williams constructive criticism in his own room - in Danville and OC, or a dealer friend on a certain brand of cables, I felt the need to comment on a review. Perhaps after 4 decades, Greg might realize that's a positive not a negative.

What is clear:

1. Greg didn't feel the need to compare footers despite an extensive break-in period (ps. the equipment list is on his own reviewer page - not exactly digging deep)

2. Greg never removed the feet from his system afterward, or the "A-B-A test" that the distributor recommends and reinserted his prior references

Steve: Honestly, I'd rather have you over for a session (which unfortunately, you have never done despite invite) then selling me feet. A common friend was interested but you required to bring over a set of feet for every component instead of a simple quad as you felt that was more optimal. I was actually going to join him for a subsequent session. I don't have the budget anyways for 20 feet which if I'm not mistaken would cost me $9k.

My point:

Feet can most certainly make a difference. But all the synergy in the world can't equate what a speaker does to dominate the room. There is no confirming review or post on any forum of these feet that would say it's the equivalent upgrade of a $300,000 speaker upgrade. And yes, I've talked to people who have heard the feet! So I'm sorry, I found the following review statements and others like it hyperbole:

"It was as if my linestage, mono amps, and sources, even my loudspeakers, had all been replaced by components that were at least two to three times more expensive!"

"I honestly don't believe that I could reap this significant a sonic improvement if I were to double the total invested price of my system, maybe even if I were to triple it!"

To conclude:

I'm going to politely bow out of this thread as it stirred emotions that I don't prefer to dwell on. Greg, if you're in the LA area sometime look me up and come for a session - we can chat about music, not feet.

Hi KeithR,

The last thing I want to do is fuel a fire but I strongly feel I needed to respond to this.

I simply don’t understand how you can credibly classify what you stated as “constructive criticism” regarding a product’s performance while at the same time acknowledging you have absolutely ZERO firsthand experience with it. Especially in contradiction to someone who has. You don’t have a frame of reference, hence you can’t provide a credible opinion. When I read your post I took it as a direct attack on Greg's credibility as a reviewer. Then when Greg responded you felt attacked???

I have these footers and I find what Greg wrote is spot on. IMO these are not just accessories they are components. Not to mention I personally know many people who have the CS footers in their system and what their feelings are about the changes to their system performance. Not to mention several of these people own VSA speakers. Their feelings were very much on par with what Greg's review stated. Also, my posts of what the footers do in my system was several months before Greg took my product in for review. It is completely unrelated. I also feel that DaveyF's comment about Greg's electronics being highly flawed is another direct attack on Greg. But, if you really think about it for a minute, everyone who own the CS footers would probably agree that these electronic components are dramatically improved by the introduction of these CS footers. This is not hyperbole. It is HUGE! As I stated in my other post that 8k in electronics with the footers performed better than switching to 60k in electronics without the footers. I'm ok if you don't believe that since you have no frame of reference. I do have a frame a reference, and for me these footers are a must and I thank Joe for designing such fantastic components. Critical Mass Racks are just as much of a component in our system as the speakers, electronics, and the cables, and I believe there are many CMS owners here that would agree with me.

Anyway, enough said. I guess I'm just bummed that this thread got blown way out of proportion.

 

[Steve williams]

Steve: Honestly, I'd rather have you over for a session (which unfortunately, you have never done despite invite) then selling me feet. A common friend was interested but you required to bring over a set of feet for every component instead of a simple quad as you felt that was more optimal. I was actually going to join him for a subsequent session. I don't have the budget anyways for 20 feet which if I'm not mistaken would cost me $9k.

I missed this and I feel it requires a reply

Keith to you and our common friend about whom you refer, never once did I mention that these are a must buy. Rather ,the years I have known you and our common friend, I find that I respect your ears for music and when I approached the both of you I said specifically there were no obligations to purchase these. I merely wanted to get your opinions and feedback something which I respected. So please, if you are going to post things I would appreciate that you post the entire story

 

[Damon Von Schweikert]

I'm sorry Greg doesn't like constructive criticism. But I don't deal in personal attacks.

Really? Saying Greg "doesn't like constructive criticism" isn't an attack? Calling his opinion hyperbolic, questioning his credibility to provide objective observations of a product's performance isn't an attack?

In my opinion, you've absolutely attacked Greg from the beginning. And with no personal experience of the product; hence no credible opinion as I see it.

All this and now you claim victim hood? Everyone here will draw their own conclusions from this thread but it should be clear what my opinion is.

 

[Steve williams]

I feel bad that this thread has gotten so off topic and the fire has begun. Gentlemen this is a hobby and these little feet IMO truly can be game changers. I think we all agree that unless one has auditioned these in their own system you just cannot make any reasonable comment. And yes Greg did do an A-B-A test . I also feel badly that these posts have resulted in such acrimony as to drive Greg from the site. For those who know Greg he is IMO an excellent reviewer and as I said in my original post, I felt his review was the most comprehensive to date. I do hope Greg reconsiders and finds his way back to WBF as I believe he has a lot to offer all from first hand experience

Like many here I am a CMS rack user. For my ears the results that they gave to my system bettered any other rack that I had in my system. Having said that Joe brings over 17 years of experience and research in the development of his racks. There is strong science behind them as well as patents.

When Joe brought these to my house 18 months ago (version 1) I was astonished at what I was hearing after a 10-14 day settle in. Joe has said many times that he feels this is the best product he has brought to market in all the 17 years.. So bottom line is Joe created these feet so that the user can hear his components the way the designer intended them by removing the stock feet from the equation and dealing with all of the extraneous noise and vibration with these feet which by the Second Law of Thermodynamics act like us taking out the garbage and dumping it by the curb each day. Version ll is even better and as Joe recently commented the thought of how to improve them came to him as if by serendipity and he sees no further pathway for improvement

 

[spiritofmusic]

Steve, no disrespect, but what is the thin skin w you guys? KeithR regularly jabs me on what he considers illogical choices and spending on tweaks. I'm still here (sorry Keith LOL). But this enminent reviewer who truly seemed to give as good as he got, is out of the kitchen?

Color me deeply unimpressed.

 

[rockitman]

What’s with all the fighting in hi end audio forums ? This hobby is supposed to be fun....not like the tribal nasty politics we are experiencing today.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Christian, w the battering we're putting up w in the UK over Brexit, WBF is a blessed relief.

 

[Barry]

I've seriously enjoyed audio since the mid-60s. I had lots of misgivings about the benefits of the CS2s, but was willing to suspend disbelief, and try them since all the reviews were so uniformly positive. I'm glad I did. Every once in a decade or two, there's something that's groundbreaking in audio. These are it.

I also believe the explanation of how the footers work and their cost won't do much to win over the skeptics - that's why there are arguments like this. This is a hobby - it IS supposed to be fun!

 

[Elliot G.]

What’s with all the fighting in hi end audio forums ? This hobby is supposed to be fun....not like the tribal nasty politics we are experiencing today.

Its not just the Forums its the whole world! Everyone is an expert and has no tolerance for anyone else even when that person or company has years of experience and superior knowledge. It seems to me that people forget that there was civilization before the internet and the cell phone.
I have found that I truly don't want to participate here and elsewhere since all it does is lead to some nasty comments even when the person making the comments has no experience with what they are condemning. Free Speech HA!

 

[Tango]

Attention everyone! Please Keep Calm and Control Your Itches. (I know you are itching to try these footers now. I am too...hehe )

Tang

 

[Bodhi]

..And yes Greg did do an A-B-A test

Thanks Steve, I went back and edited my earlier post to correct my misunderstanding.