H3000 - unimpressed so far - what am I missing?

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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H3000 - how long is the run in?

I've got a H3000 that I bought it as a demo unit with 50 hrs on it and now have around 120 hrs.

Anyone care to share how long you had to wait for it to bed in, and the magic reveal itself?

Thanks
Andrew
 
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jfrech

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Have you swapped out rectifier tubes? I had a H3000v on demo...really wasn't happy...but had a bad rectifier...the sound was dull...no magic as you say...so could be a simple thing to fix...
 

drunkenrabbit

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Oh, no I haven't, will investigate - thanks for the heads up..

Ohh nice cart - don't see many Jan Allaerts around the traps....how do you like it cf the Atlas (which I have heard many times...)
 

audioarcher

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The stock rectifier sucks. Look for a RCA 5U4G. They are not very expensive. It is the best I have found for my system. No need to tube roll any of the other tubes in the main chassis.

What cartridge are you using?
 

jfrech

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Oh, no I haven't, will investigate - thanks for the heads up..

Ohh nice cart - don't see many Jan Allaerts around the traps....how do you like it cf the Atlas (which I have heard many times...)

The Allaerts and Atlas are BOTH fantastic cartridges. The Allaerts is a real pain in the ... to drive properly. The Atlas is a breeze on phono stages....The Atlas is more demanding of the tonearm...

That said...the Atlas has more jump, maybe a touch more resolution. The Allaerts definitely has a thing with unraveling the instruments in space and portraying it's resolution more softly. Atlas you can't miss it's information...the Allaerts draws you in....it's all there...

Honestly, one isn't better...they are both world class....

Audioarchers point is a good one..I tried a few rectifiers...you can easily hear em...and easily improve on the stock....
 

audioarcher

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May 7, 2012
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I've got a H3000 that I bought it as a demo unit with 50 hrs on it and now have around 120 hrs.

Anyone care to share how long you had to wait for it to bed in, and the magic reveal itself?

Thanks
Andrew

Looking at the rest of your system, it looks like your Spendor SA1's are not a very good match for your 70 WPC Allnic T2000 integrated. The Spendor's are very inefficient at 83 db sensitivity (according to Stereophile) and the impedance is far from flat. If you want good results with a tube amp you need a speaker with a fairly flat impedance. Otherwise the frequency response will be off. You might want to wait until you get your new MMMicro Ones. They may be a better match for your amp.
 

puroagave

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Looking at the rest of your system, it looks like your Spendor SA1's are not a very good match for your 70 WPC Allnic T2000 integrated. The Spendor's are very inefficient at 83 db sensitivity (according to Stereophile) and the impedance is far from flat. If you want good results with a tube amp you need a speaker with a fairly flat impedance. Otherwise the frequency response will be off. You might want to wait until you get your new MMMicro Ones. They may be a better match for your amp.

a Spendor hard to drive? not possible. ive owned all of the classic series speakers they're a classic match with tubes, if your amp cant drive them properly your amp has issues. from stereophile's SA1 measurements:

"Offsetting the Spendor's need for volts is its high impedance. Fig.1 shows the speaker's impedance and electrical phase, the former plotted on a wider 5dB/division scale rather than our usual 2dB/division. The sealed enclosure is tuned to 80Hz, indicated by the impedance peak of 46 ohms at that frequency. The impedance drops below 10 ohms only between 125 and 575Hz, reaching a minimum value of 6.2 ohms at 200Hz, but otherwise remains very high."
 

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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Sydney, Aus
The stock rectifier sucks. Look for a RCA 5U4G. They are not very expensive. It is the best I have found for my system. No need to tube roll any of the other tubes in the main chassis.

What cartridge are you using?

LP-S

Thanks for the replies - will investigate new rectifier tubes...thanks
 

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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a Spendor hard to drive? not possible. ive owned all of the classic series speakers they're a classic match with tubes, if your amp cant drive them properly your amp has issues. from stereophile's SA1 measurements:

"Offsetting the Spendor's need for volts is its high impedance. Fig.1 shows the speaker's impedance and electrical phase, the former plotted on a wider 5dB/division scale rather than our usual 2dB/division. The sealed enclosure is tuned to 80Hz, indicated by the impedance peak of 46 ohms at that frequency. The impedance drops below 10 ohms only between 125 and 575Hz, reaching a minimum value of 6.2 ohms at 200Hz, but otherwise remains very high."

My experience as well...
 

audioarcher

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May 7, 2012
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a Spendor hard to drive? not possible. ive owned all of the classic series speakers they're a classic match with tubes, if your amp cant drive them properly your amp has issues. from stereophile's SA1 measurements:

"Offsetting the Spendor's need for volts is its high impedance. Fig.1 shows the speaker's impedance and electrical phase, the former plotted on a wider 5dB/division scale rather than our usual 2dB/division. The sealed enclosure is tuned to 80Hz, indicated by the impedance peak of 46 ohms at that frequency. The impedance drops below 10 ohms only between 125 and 575Hz, reaching a minimum value of 6.2 ohms at 200Hz, but otherwise remains very high."

Fair enough. I have no actual experience with Spendor's. It did not look like a great match on paper to me.
 

drunkenrabbit

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The SA1's and a Leben CS 600 are a match made in heaven btw...abit like Leben & Proac Response 2 D's..


I do get moments of magic, but it is interspersed with some average performance. Figured it was a run in thing. Patience isn't my strong suit :rolleyes:.
 

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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Sydney, Aus
The Allaerts and Atlas are BOTH fantastic cartridges. The Allaerts is a real pain in the ... to drive properly. The Atlas is a breeze on phono stages....The Atlas is more demanding of the tonearm...

That said...the Atlas has more jump, maybe a touch more resolution. The Allaerts definitely has a thing with unraveling the instruments in space and portraying it's resolution more softly. Atlas you can't miss it's information...the Allaerts draws you in....it's all there...

Honestly, one isn't better...they are both world class....

Audioarchers point is a good one..I tried a few rectifiers...you can easily hear em...and easily improve on the stock....

Ahhh - thanks gives me a good feel for the differences - as you say at that level there is no "bad" cartridge - just different flavours. Never heard a JA - they are rare here.
 

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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Update - I sold the H3000 - and the matching T 2000 Allnic amp. Perhaps it was just me, but I was distinctly unimpressed by the performance yielded by each.

ATM I am playing with a Devialet, and prefer the onboard phono to the H3000. It seems more dynamic, quieter and more transparent.

In any event, different flavours suit different folk..
 

Bruce B

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The Pacific NW Audio Society had a phono pre demo at the last meeting. The units were the Allnic H3000, Doshi, Lamm 2.1 and the Z-Infinity. I felt the Allnic was flat and too homogenized. It was alright, but not anything to write home about.
 

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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The Pacific NW Audio Society had a phono pre demo at the last meeting. The units were the Allnic H3000, Doshi, Lamm 2.1 and the Z-Infinity. I felt the Allnic was flat and too homogenized. It was alright, but not anything to write home about.

Yes...well Bruce...I wish I had heard it before I bought the thing. Unfortunately only one dealer here in Australia, and stupidly I trusted the reviews....I lost 3.5 k in a month.

I took my unit around to several friend's house's - it was seen off comprehensively by every phono it was put against, a Ypsilon SUT & Leben combo spanked it completely. I'll go further and say that a humble P75 mk III in current mode has more life to it than a H3000...seriously just don't get what all the fuss is about.

Build quality wasn't so great either - one of the XLR connectors pushed into the chassis when I was connecting it up, off came the bottom and to my observation the XLR connector was a cheap 50 cent plastic housing with a spring clip - horrid quality (and someone had had the problem before - the spring clip showed signs of a screw driver being applied). The aluminium housing was also less than inspiring - seriously when something costs north of 10k, you expect the build to be first rate. I like Swiss & German made things...

Just goes to show - never buy a product on reviews especially when the "reviewer" is selling the brand....

FWIW the T2000 was a very big disappointment as well, despite being 70 wpc it couldn't pull the skin off a custard - you really needed speakers in excess of 93 db for it to be happy. The Leben CS 600 was a much better amp, and cost half as much.

The Devialet is a MUCH better amp and phono, imho.

My 2 cents..
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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The Pacific NW Audio Society had a phono pre demo at the last meeting. The units were the Allnic H3000, Doshi, Lamm 2.1 and the Z-Infinity. I felt the Allnic was flat and too homogenized. It was alright, but not anything to write home about.

Were they using the stock chinese rectifier tube in the Allnic? Even the Mullard G37 sounds like you're describing to me (I actually detested the Mullard in the Allnic). The best for the Allnic is the old RCA 5U4G (though know Albert P. uses a U52 or some derivative thereof).
 

drunkenrabbit

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Dec 1, 2013
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Sydney, Aus
Were they using the stock chinese rectifier tube in the Allnic? Even the Mullard G37 sounds like you're describing to me (I actually detested the Mullard in the Allnic). The best for the Allnic is the old RCA 5U4G (though know Albert P. uses a U52 or some derivative thereof).

Myles
with all due respect - you don't go spending 12k on a phono and have to go tube rolling to get it sounding half decent.....I mean really....
 
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Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 26, 2010
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Snohomish, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Were they using the stock chinese rectifier tube in the Allnic? Even the Mullard G37 sounds like you're describing to me (I actually detested the Mullard in the Allnic). The best for the Allnic is the old RCA 5U4G (though know Albert P. uses a U52 or some derivative thereof).

I believe the PS tubes were upgraded.
 

audioarcher

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May 7, 2012
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Seattle area
The rectifier used was the RCA 5U4G. One factor that made a difference in our shootout was that the integrated amp used, did not have a real line stage built in. Which means that the overall gain was less than a setup using a separate line stage and amp. A couple of the phono stages needed the volume knob to be turned almost all the way up to get a decent volume. The Doshi had the most gain and had an advantage because of it. The results would have been a little different if we had used a line stage/amp combo instead.

Sounds like this could be the same issue with Drunkenrabbit's setup. Not enough overall gain.
 

drunkenrabbit

New Member
Dec 1, 2013
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Sydney, Aus
Sounds like this could be the same issue with Drunkenrabbit's setup. Not enough overall gain.

Nope - plenty of gain, it just wasn't very good.

Anyways it's gone, and I'm alot less stressed in consequence.

Cheers
 

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