I have said it more than once - my best audiophile moment was listening to the TheSonusFaber using the REF610's fitted with KT120's. The REF750's are better - I have listened to them several times but the TheSonusFaber are now gone ... It was after this session that I ordered the Aida's without even listening to them. A good friend who also listened to this memorable session, where several of my favorite recordings were used, still says that it was unbelievable, that no audio system could have sounded so life like.
Help me decide.....
- Thread starter mbovaird
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I have said it more than once - my best audiophile moment was listening to the TheSonusFaber using the REF610's fitted with KT120's. The REF750's are better - I have listened to them several times but the TheSonusFaber are now gone ... It was after this session that I ordered the Aida's without even listening to them. A good friend who also listened to this memorable session, where several of my favorite recordings were used, still says that it was unbelievable, that no audio system could have sounded so life like.
I have heard both the ARC Ref 250 pair + DS450 with the ARC Reference DAC/Pre on the Sonus Faber Aida and the Jeff Rowland M725 + M 625 with the Jeff Aerius on the Aida. Believe it or not the Jeff combination wins this one for musicality, transperency, magic voices and the Jeff sounds tube like and warm as a bonus. The Aeris DAC is slightly ahead of the AR Ref DAC and 60% cheaper. At the same price I would yet have the Aeris at home. What would be interesting is trying the Jeff M 825 on the top and bottom of the Aida. The Jeff M 825 and M 725 will retail at approximately the same price. Which one is better is the matter of a thread. They should sound completely different.
Hi Seriously HiFi, I would love to hear about any impression of Sonus Aidas driven by Rowland M825... But I suspect that that might have to wait a little longer. As far as I know, M825 is slated for release sometimes during the 2nd quarter 2013, so it might not be on the market yet. But the stereo amp is likely to be quite interesting... 400W/ 8Ohms and 750W / 4 Ohms with a hefty power supply in one chassis and the audio signal in a second chassis. As M825 is derived from the M925 monos, I conjecture that the power supply might be a 2400W unit fed by a PFC-based rectifier. I heard that its price will end up a smidjin above $30K.
As I also love very much the sound of Audio Research newest tube amps, I would be fascinated to listen comparatively to REF 250 and M825 on the same system driving Aidas... Or alternatively, AR REF 750 vs Rowland M925.
Guido
As I also love very much the sound of Audio Research newest tube amps, I would be fascinated to listen comparatively to REF 250 and M825 on the same system driving Aidas... Or alternatively, AR REF 750 vs Rowland M925.
Guido
I have heard the Aida's with both the Ref 250 and Ref 750. I prefer it with the Momentum's which in my opinion is a pairing that puts them up there with and handful of best speakers.
Still-One, which sonic/musical aspects/parameters made you prefer Aidas driven by the D'Agostino Momentum than by the Ref 750s?
Guido
Guido
Hi Microstrip. Interesting. How would you compare the Sonus Faber to other speakers you've heard (XLF, X2, Aida, etc)?
Guido
Just to be clear I own Momentum's. I believe that Dan's amps control the bottom end better and have clearer, better defined and extended highs. I am sure there are some who would be attracted to the AR's vocals.
Jim
Hi Guido, yes the Jeff M825 is out this May I believe and as you know it is a completely new "D" Class amp which is the same as the
M925. The M825 will retail at $32,000 which will make it more expensive than the mono blocks M725 at $ 29,800.
The M625/725 and the M825/925 are two completely different schools of sound and construction. Jeff personally believes that the new "D" class is a superior product (M825/925). Will wait to get the M825 and do a comparision with the M725. Would be very interesting. Putting the AR 250 into the hat, which is close to the Jeff amps price range will be another interesting comparision. Both are great amplifiers and could be a tough call. What certainly Jeff has managed to do with his new designs is get mid range warmth in them and he says that his new "D" class amps M825/925 are the ultimate in transperency and by far the best amps he has ever built. He bellieves that "D" class is the future due to its much superior technology but to spend $58,000 on a "D" class is scary. The world is changing too quickly in the digital domain. Jeff is also coming out with a very reasonably priced "D" class M525 with a cheaper "D" class chip at 250 watts stereo or 1000 watts mono at $4500. Will let you know once I have the lot, but for me at this moment the
M725/625 is a better combination than the AR 250/450 on the Aida though the AR also have their strengths. I find the Jeff to be ahead in refinment. The shocker in the pack is the Jeff Aeris DAC used without a Pre. Great value and great musicality with an end to end soundstage.
M925. The M825 will retail at $32,000 which will make it more expensive than the mono blocks M725 at $ 29,800.
The M625/725 and the M825/925 are two completely different schools of sound and construction. Jeff personally believes that the new "D" class is a superior product (M825/925). Will wait to get the M825 and do a comparision with the M725. Would be very interesting. Putting the AR 250 into the hat, which is close to the Jeff amps price range will be another interesting comparision. Both are great amplifiers and could be a tough call. What certainly Jeff has managed to do with his new designs is get mid range warmth in them and he says that his new "D" class amps M825/925 are the ultimate in transperency and by far the best amps he has ever built. He bellieves that "D" class is the future due to its much superior technology but to spend $58,000 on a "D" class is scary. The world is changing too quickly in the digital domain. Jeff is also coming out with a very reasonably priced "D" class M525 with a cheaper "D" class chip at 250 watts stereo or 1000 watts mono at $4500. Will let you know once I have the lot, but for me at this moment the
M725/625 is a better combination than the AR 250/450 on the Aida though the AR also have their strengths. I find the Jeff to be ahead in refinment. The shocker in the pack is the Jeff Aeris DAC used without a Pre. Great value and great musicality with an end to end soundstage.
Hi Seriouslyhifi, I have received my Rowland M925 monos last week... All 320 Lbs of them... Now in the early break-in stage. I keep a diary of my new adventure here on WBF at:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Break-in-Notes&p=193754&viewfull=1#post193754
See you there! G.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...Break-in-Notes&p=193754&viewfull=1#post193754
See you there! G.
I'm not quite understanding why Jeff likes these 'D' class amps so much
The 625 and the 725's that I heard, while good, were not IMHO competitive with some of the better A or AB amps that i have heard and certainly lacking in comparison to some of the best tube amps on the market. I could still hear the 'digital' hardness that seems somewhat inherent in all of this class of amp. Ok, flame suit on....:b
I have not heard the M925's or of course the new M825....BUT
The 625 and the 725's that I heard, while good, were not IMHO competitive with some of the better A or AB amps that i have heard and certainly lacking in comparison to some of the best tube amps on the market. I could still hear the 'digital' hardness that seems somewhat inherent in all of this class of amp. Ok, flame suit on....:b
I have not heard the M925's or of course the new M825....BUT
Hi DaveyF, M625 and M725 are high bias class A/B designs. The rather significant amount of heat they dissipate incongruent with this fact. All Rowland amps take an inordinate amount of time to stabilize, and an audition of an immature Rowland amp is often disappointing, which may explain your experience of a "digital hardness" on an amp that uses a linear power conversion circuit.
The Rowland knowledge base confirms M725 class A/B of operations at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=592
The features article on M725 reports:
"Precision machined from two single blocks of non-resonant aircraft aluminum, the Model 725 features a unique composite circuit architecture incorporating
separate Class AB voltage and current gain blocks with no overall negative feedback. The Model 725 features mil-spec ceramic circuit boards, h ...
"
Robert Harley's highly favorable review of M725 in TAS 228 at:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...-corus-linestage-and-725-monoblock-amplifier/
confirms that "All the audio circuitry, including the output stage,
are linear (non-switching) circuits. "
Roy Gregory , on HiFi Plus #83 at:
http://www.avguide.com/review/jeff-rowland-corus-preamp-625-power-amp-hi-fi-83
states of M625: "XLR sockets feed an input transformer,
separate voltage and current gain stages and a class AB, bipolar output stage in a dual differential, dual mono configuration. "
I have fully broken in (1200 hours at least), and have been immensely enjoying M725 as my principal amp for the last full year, because of the refined musicality that it delivers to me, regardless of its particular class of operation. And yes, I do concur wholeheartedly with Harley's glowing findings on this amp... Although, I only wish I could write like Roy Gregory does.
My M925 is showing already signs of greatness, all be it within the inevitable morasses and shortcomings of early break-in (approx 70 hours). It already projects stage and images significantly larger than M725... Whether or not it will be capable of greater musical refinement than the M725 monos, in a manner commensurate with the 2X price difference and 3X weight difference, is something that I hope to discover during the next 4 months… But Jeff Rowland has already warned me that -- because of the oversized input transformers, -- M925 break-in may extend well beyond what I am used to. Oh yes... M925 runs pretty toasty to the touch.
The Rowland knowledge base confirms M725 class A/B of operations at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=592
The features article on M725 reports:
"Precision machined from two single blocks of non-resonant aircraft aluminum, the Model 725 features a unique composite circuit architecture incorporating
separate Class AB voltage and current gain blocks with no overall negative feedback. The Model 725 features mil-spec ceramic circuit boards, h ...
"
Robert Harley's highly favorable review of M725 in TAS 228 at:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...-corus-linestage-and-725-monoblock-amplifier/
confirms that "All the audio circuitry, including the output stage,
are linear (non-switching) circuits. "
Roy Gregory , on HiFi Plus #83 at:
http://www.avguide.com/review/jeff-rowland-corus-preamp-625-power-amp-hi-fi-83
states of M625: "XLR sockets feed an input transformer,
separate voltage and current gain stages and a class AB, bipolar output stage in a dual differential, dual mono configuration. "
I have fully broken in (1200 hours at least), and have been immensely enjoying M725 as my principal amp for the last full year, because of the refined musicality that it delivers to me, regardless of its particular class of operation. And yes, I do concur wholeheartedly with Harley's glowing findings on this amp... Although, I only wish I could write like Roy Gregory does.
My M925 is showing already signs of greatness, all be it within the inevitable morasses and shortcomings of early break-in (approx 70 hours). It already projects stage and images significantly larger than M725... Whether or not it will be capable of greater musical refinement than the M725 monos, in a manner commensurate with the 2X price difference and 3X weight difference, is something that I hope to discover during the next 4 months… But Jeff Rowland has already warned me that -- because of the oversized input transformers, -- M925 break-in may extend well beyond what I am used to. Oh yes... M925 runs pretty toasty to the touch.
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Thanks for clearing that up, Guido. I had assumed that all of Jeff's new amps were class D like his older models from the 200 series and up. Not sure why i heard what I heard when I heard the 625 and 725's then, probably the front end contribution which was only Redbook. BTW, I recently heard the new MolaMola amps, and these also exhibited a sound I attribute to a class "D" design....which i know for sure they are.
Since you mentioned it, i now remember reading somewhere that Jeff had gone away from the "D"class amps in his new series....I wonder what made him go back for his top-of-line units???
Since you mentioned it, i now remember reading somewhere that Jeff had gone away from the "D"class amps in his new series....I wonder what made him go back for his top-of-line units???
DaveyF, one way to describe Jeff Rowland’s thinking is that he is a technological pragmatist. He is driven by the sonic/musical goals of each new project adventure... He seems to spend almost invariably a considerable time researching and experimenting until he discovers the technical means to realize the particular music that he had in mind, without any considerations of, welll.... time passing and.... class-consciousness *grins*
Up to now, I have been very fortunate… The sound of the Rowland amps that I have had has been consistent with my own evolving musical ideals (M7 (A/B), M312 (D), M725 (A/B)... All I can say about M925 this far is that it sounds quite promising.... Of course, at 100 hours, its maturity is, by definition, a while away.
Guido
Up to now, I have been very fortunate… The sound of the Rowland amps that I have had has been consistent with my own evolving musical ideals (M7 (A/B), M312 (D), M725 (A/B)... All I can say about M925 this far is that it sounds quite promising.... Of course, at 100 hours, its maturity is, by definition, a while away.
Guido
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