Horn based system from southern coast of Turkey

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
530
504
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#22
ok
yes JMLC270 is 12-15cm wider dia than same in traktrix
whats listening distance?
No, not 12cm wider with the same cutoff in tractrix profile. 270hz JMLC is 12cm wider than a 200Hz cutoff tractrix. JMLC with 270Hz cutoff has no advantage for loading and xo response over 200Hz tractrix. It also lifts the acoustic centre higher. Some people say it sounds more open but it does not add as much as it detracts in my own topology...

I am sitting 430cm's away from the diaphragms of the drivers and they are 360cm's apart from each other. (1:1.2)
 
Jan 18, 2012
801
234
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Drobak Norway
#23
I think the JMLC full rollback horns are the smoothest sounding horns of all
apart from some CD horns, which have other issues
whatever "floats our boats".....:cool:
best
Leif

btw an ATR tape machine I see there?
 

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
530
504
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#24
I think the JMLC full rollback horns are the smoothest sounding horns of all
apart from some CD horns, which have other issues
whatever "floats our boats".....:cool:
best
Leif

btw an ATR tape machine I see there?
Yes, I think JMLC is a very good profile that is easier to make sound less coloured for everything from midrange up but a speaker system still has to be thought altogether. With my setup, and my choice of compromises, 200hz tractrix was most fitting, I used jmlc profile in upper midrange only.

Yes, that is an ATR-102 that I am refurbishing with new mastering grade parts from ATR Services :)
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,992
860
180
#26
Great to see your room, thanks very much for posting! :)
 
Sep 7, 2016
273
319
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Netherlands
#27
What a beatyfull room and system!
Very nice and interesting, congrats.

Great questions about the tapped horn, let me answer them as much as I can. This is the design on volvotrer for a full size 20hz tapped horn. I attach the drawing with dimensions.

One of them is enough if you are using it like I do. Two would be better and four in every corner would be the best providing the flattest response with the least distortion. At the same time 4 tapped horns would mean 4 amps and many more meters of cables which can cause a lot of other audible problems on a 109db efficient system.

Keep in mind, with most of the music it is working very minimally. The way I use it is between 18hz and 40hz. Most visitors can not hear it working even when they are standing right in front of it! I built it out of 30mm mdf, it is rock solid with no resonance at all but is very very heavy.

It does not effect the r-l balance. However, when you start crossing higher, problems start appearing one by one. For me, the limit is around 60hz and even with that, there has been some detrimental effects. At 60hz the sound can not match the rest of my system, still it does not tip the balance. Localization starts either when you go over 80hz or with too much volume, so much so that it overwhelms the rest of the system.

I have a hypex amp and crossover with it. The crossover has a phase rotary knob. I took about 20 different measurements to find out what is close to best and then I minimally adjusted it from my hearing spot.
What type of woofer are you using for this tabbed sub horn?
The hypex you are using is not a dsp plate amp?
 

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
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504
120
#28
@audioquattr
I am using Eminence Kappa 3015LF, the hypex amp is the ds 2.0 plate amp for subwoofers specifically. It has 18db crossover, notch eq with gain, rotary phase alignment and a subsonic filter 24db at 12hz. The volume is set to less than half of full volume, about 11 o clock. it is 100watts at 8ohm.
 
Sep 7, 2016
273
319
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Netherlands
#29
@audioquattr
I am using Eminence Kappa 3015LF, the hypex amp is the ds 2.0 plate amp for subwoofers specifically. It has 18db crossover, notch eq with gain, rotary phase alignment and a subsonic filter 24db at 12hz. The volume is set to less than half of full volume, about 11 o clock. it is 100watts at 8ohm.
Nice woofer, good sensitivity aswell.
Thanks for all the info.
I have used the dsp hypex the last few years. Now using the Fusion n-core, like them for subs.
I can't see it very good on the picture, is the opening on top (i mean starting from about 2m's from the floor) of the basshorn?
 

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
530
504
120
#30
Nice woofer, good sensitivity aswell.
Thanks for all the info.
I have used the dsp hypex the last few years. Now using the Fusion n-core, like them for subs.
I can't see it very good on the picture, is the opening on top (i mean starting from about 2m's from the floor) of the basshorn?
Yes, the opening is up top, starts at 210cm and finishes 244cm above the floor. The ceiling is 300cm's high, so there is 56cm's to the ceiling. It sounds and feels more balanced and feels like it is pressurising the room smoother...
 
Sep 7, 2016
273
319
155
Netherlands
#31
I can understand, thanks.
 

christoph

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2015
1,907
1,131
195
Principality of Liechtenstein
#32
Great questions about the tapped horn, let me answer them as much as I can. This is the design on volvotrer for a full size 20hz tapped horn. I attach the drawing with dimensions.

One of them is enough if you are using it like I do. Two would be better and four in every corner would be the best providing the flattest response with the least distortion. At the same time 4 tapped horns would mean 4 amps and many more meters of cables which can cause a lot of other audible problems on a 109db efficient system.

Keep in mind, with most of the music it is working very minimally. The way I use it is between 18hz and 40hz. Most visitors can not hear it working even when they are standing right in front of it! I built it out of 30mm mdf, it is rock solid with no resonance at all but is very very heavy.

It does not effect the r-l balance. However, when you start crossing higher, problems start appearing one by one. For me, the limit is around 60hz and even with that, there has been some detrimental effects. At 60hz the sound can not match the rest of my system, still it does not tip the balance. Localization starts either when you go over 80hz or with too much volume, so much so that it overwhelms the rest of the system.

I have a hypex amp and crossover with it. The crossover has a phase rotary knob. I took about 20 different measurements to find out what is close to best and then I minimally adjusted it from my hearing spot.
Thank you very much for your answer.
I know the volvoteter webpage almost by heart ;)
http://wp.volvotreter.de/projects/th-2/the-eminence-horn/

What chassis and amp/x-over exactly do you use?
The chassis volvoteter mentions are more or less all discontinued :(

Thanks again for sharing your audio heaven with us :cool:

Edit: Sorry, just saw you already answered the chassis and amp/x-over question.

Would you still use the same woofer and amp if you built new today?
 
Last edited:

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
530
504
120
#33
ATR-102 has a new friend from Europe, a Studer A807 :)
 

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kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
530
504
120
#34
One last photo before I replace the TAD woofers and the tapped horn with the new open baffle servo bass system.
You can also see the new diffusers on top of my record cabinets.
 

Attachments

christoph

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2015
1,907
1,131
195
Principality of Liechtenstein
#36
One last photo before I replace the TAD woofers and the tapped horn with the new open baffle servo bass system.
You can also see the new diffusers on top of my record cabinets.
Thank you very much for letting us watch :cool:
 
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Golum

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2018
529
532
110
Lausanne, CH
#37
One last photo before I replace the TAD woofers and the tapped horn with the new open baffle servo bass system.
You can also see the new diffusers on top of my record cabinets.
What a beautiful room :eek::eek::eek:. Enjoy!
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
3,543
2,963
335
Bangkok
#38
One last photo before I replace the TAD woofers and the tapped horn with the new open baffle servo bass system.
You can also see the new diffusers on top of my record cabinets.
What kind of amps are you using for your bass modules Kodomo san. What frequency do you cross.

Excellent looking room btw.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
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kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
530
504
120
#39
What kind of amps are you using for your bass modules Kodomo san. What frequency do you cross.

Excellent looking room btw.

Kind regards,
Tang
I am using class d German made monoblocks by AVM audio to drive the tad woofers which play from 40hz to 110hz.
I use a class d subwoofer amp to drive the tapped horns which play the lowest octave, 20hz to 40hz.

The new servo based system has 3 gr-research servo woofers on h frame open baffles on each side. They will be driven by their own special made servo amps which are class ab. This will cover 20hz to 110hz all by itself. One less channel for me :)
 
Jan 29, 2012
1,597
729
210
#40
I am using class d German made monoblocks by AVM audio to drive the tad woofers which play from 40hz to 110hz.
I use a class d subwoofer amp to drive the tapped horns which play the lowest octave, 20hz to 40hz.

The new servo based system has 3 gr-research servo woofers on h frame open baffles on each side. They will be driven by their own special made servo amps which are class ab. This will cover 20hz to 110hz all by itself. One less channel for me :)
Have you heard this arrangement on a different system? I'm curious how you know it will be successful. It seems like a radical departure from what you're currently running.
 
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