Horning Agalme Hybrid vs Tannoy Westminster Roayal

[Zappadaddy]

I have Tannoy Westminster Royal speakers, I like their sound but they miss something what I hear from some other great speakers, perhaps more resolution, more spark. Alsou tehy require proper room, I have it, they are very sensitive to quality source, amps, cables. Now I am searching for the last piece preamp to complete my mission TWR to sing at their best. But it seems it will also be the most difficult task. Friend of mine suggested to purchase other speakers to compare them with Tannoy thinking that for the money I will spent for preamp I can get better results with diffrent speakers. my budget was up to 15000 euros. I was thinking about this idea and thought hmm, maybe so. I have spent 10 years with TW and maybe I should try something else to see if my taste of sound developed some other way, I do not listen as much to rock music, I listen all kind of music now, a lot of jazz, some classical and other style, even electronica, ofcourse old rock and progressive still remain in my list of the most favorites. It happened that I found these monsters top of the line of Horning hybrid system - Horning Agalme. Since I am a bit megaloman I thought that would fit my bill. They are huge, tall 2m, deep 70cm, they have 12x bass 8inch Beyma speakers in the back in Horning hybrid set up and one tweeter and the baddest Lowther drivers of all PM65 in front. These speakers are exceptionaly revealing and transparent, especialy on classical music and jazz, excelent bass, incredible resolution. The problem is,it is not universal speaker, for some people that would not be acceptable, it does not play Black Sabbath a metal very well. But people who listen classical, jazz,soft rock, progressive rock or even electronica are in the heaven with these, you can hardly find speakers to play this way. Speakers going very low 16_20000hz and the bass is very very tight even when producing the deepest notes, it is pleasure to listen acoustical music of any kind, so clear and real in the space nicely separated. 3D is also very very good. They are totaly diffrent then Tannoy WR of course so for me it is hard to get acustomed to that sound. I am not sure if I want to keep them since I listen all kind of music but they will behard to sell, they are tall 2m so they need bigger room. I forgot to mentionrest of the chain. The source is steraqming transport Pink Faun Ultra 2.16, dac Mola Tambaqui, Jorma aes ebu, going directly through Jorma Origo rca to Emirate SE-833 Challenge which create monstrous power of 80w per channel in single ended Class A and finyly through Jorma Prime speakers cables to TWR . When I applied the same system to Horning Agalme I found out that the sound is to thin for my taste,yes hugely transparent a nd resolving but it was to much for me and unlistenable when I compared them with my TWR, it misses the body of the instruments, it did not create the atmosfere like with my other speakers. It happend that I had NAT magnetic preamp on loan which I did not like very much with myTWR and I thoght to try it in this set up. Wow what a change with this preamp, suddenly the body of intruments got whatis required - the body,now I could listen to it. SoHorning also reveal the weakest ling in the chain. I heard these speakers in the seller s house with analog and I new something is wrong in my chain, could be Tamabaui as a preamp? Could be Tambaqui as dac sounding to thin? That let me thinking maybe I should try some other DAC like Aries Cerat HelenwúKassandra or Lampizator Pacific, maybe Horning would get fuller sound and that is what I think they need. Any thought, advices, experiences?

 

[bonzo75]

from what I saw the seller’s house had Kronos discovery. You really can’t judge a system in a well set up analog chain and think you will get those sonics in a digital system. His recordings and source matter.

 

[Zappadaddy]

I agree with that. He also had a tape source. (y) But I can judge the system in same set up on digital level.

 

[bonzo75]

I agree with that. He also had a tape source. (y) But I can judge the system in same set up on digital level.

so in that system did you hear digital? Did you get the same density, fuller sound you mentioned?

 

[Zappadaddy]

Bonzo, you understand, I am comparing 2 diffrent speakers in same digital enviroment, I am not camparing digital vs analog. Yes I liked Horning with analog( the best version of record) vs ordinary unknown version on Qobuz better in his nontreated digital system. In his digital enviroment ( basic PC, ordinary usb cable straight to Esoteric cd player with integrated dac as source) sounded horrible, in my house where I am treating digital like you analog guys same it sounds closer then you think in my opinion even with standart non audiophile edition listen in Tidal/Qobuz. My digital contains 2x audio SOTM switch with Evo in parallel connection both powered with batteries 3x AAI ethernet cables (each about 900$) to streaming transport PINK FAUN to dac Mola Tambaqui with Jorma aes ebu, this rig is almost same value as his analog system. I know I still have some work to do to get even closer to his sound from analog.

 

[Gregm]

For a denser, (much) more full-bodied sound, from digital I would try an Ideon Absolute epsilon dac or (I would speculate) a Wadax reference.
Neither will sound exactly like a Kronos -- source material won't allow that even if the digital hardware were up to the task.

However, you may find that they are in a similar sonic category, pleasantly so.

[I actually had the opportunity to compare my epsilon to the big /floor standing Kronos, for the fun of it, no critical listening involved. Sources were Time Out - DSD vs vintage vinyl & Who's Next vintage pressing vs a masterfile seriesdigital. Electronics were TLA, Goebel speakers]

 

[morricab]

I have Tannoy Westminster Royal speakers, I like their sound but they miss something what I hear from some other great speakers, perhaps more resolution, more spark. Alsou tehy require proper room, I have it, they are very sensitive to quality source, amps, cables. Now I am searching for the last piece preamp to complete my mission TWR to sing at their best. But it seems it will also be the most difficult task. Friend of mine suggested to purchase other speakers to compare them with Tannoy thinking that for the money I will spent for preamp I can get better results with diffrent speakers. my budget was up to 15000 euros. I was thinking about this idea and thought hmm, maybe so. I have spent 10 years with TW and maybe I should try something else to see if my taste of sound developed some other way, I do not listen as much to rock music, I listen all kind of music now, a lot of jazz, some classical and other style, even electronica, ofcourse old rock and progressive still remain in my list of the most favorites. It happened that I found these monsters top of the line of Horning hybrid system - Horning Agalme. Since I am a bit megaloman I thought that would fit my bill. They are huge, tall 2m, deep 70cm, they have 12x bass 8inch Beyma speakers in the back in Horning hybrid set up and one tweeter and the baddest Lowther drivers of all PM65 in front. These speakers are exceptionaly revealing and transparent, especialy on classical music and jazz, excelent bass, incredible resolution. The problem is,it is not universal speaker, for some people that would not be acceptable, it does not play Black Sabbath a metal very well. But people who listen classical, jazz,soft rock, progressive rock or even electronica are in the heaven with these, you can hardly find speakers to play this way. Speakers going very low 18khz and the bass is very very tight even when producing the deepest notes, it is pleasure to listen acoustical music of any kind, so clear and real in the space nicely separated. 3D is also very very good. They are totaly diffrent then Tannoy WR of course so for me it is hard to get acustomed to that sound. I am not sure if I want to keep them since I listen all kind of music but they will behard to sell, they are tall 2m so they need bigger room. I forgot to mentionrest of the chain. The source is steraqming transport Pink Faun Ultra 2.16, dac Mola Tambaqui, Jorma aes ebu, going directly through Jorma Origo rca to Emirate SE-833 Challenge which create monstrous power of 80w per channel in single ended Class A and finyly through Jorma Prime speakers cables to TWR . When I applied the same system to Horning Agalme I found out that the sound is to thin for my taste,yes hugely transparent a nd resolving but it was to much for me and unlistenable when I compared them with my TWR, it misses the body of the instruments, it did not create the atmosfere like with my other speakers. It happend that I had NAT magnetic preamp on loan which I did not like very much with myTWR and I thoght to try it in this set up. Wow what a change with this preamp, suddenly the body of intruments got whatis required - the body,now I could listen to it. SoHorning also reveal the weakest ling in the chain. I heard these speakers in the seller s house with analog and I new something is wrong in my chain, could be Tamabaui as a preamp? Could be Tambaqui as dac sounding to thin? That let me thinking maybe I should try some other DAC like Aries Cerat HelenwúKassandra or Lampizator Pacific, maybe Horning would get fuller sound and that is what I think they need. Any thought, advices, experiences?

Have your Horning's been modified? I ask because the tweeter in your pictures is not the same cone tweeter that Horning has been using for close to 20 years in his speakers. Did the original owner replace them with what looks like a metal dome tweeter?

A friend of mine has the Tambaqui DAC and, well, it is not my kind of sounding DAC and is tilted up in the highs and could be easily contributing to the sense of leanness you are experiencing with it direct into your amps.

 

[Zappadaddy]

Have your Horning's been modified? I ask because the tweeter in your pictures is not the same cone tweeter that Horning has been using for close to 20 years in his speakers. Did the original owner replace them with what looks like a metal dome tweeter?

A friend of mine has the Tambaqui DAC and, well, it is not my kind of sounding DAC and is tilted up in the highs and could be easily contributing to the sense of leanness you are experiencing with it direct into your amps.

Yes original tweeters were replaced with Scanspek bevause one of the original was somewhet faulty.

 

[Zappadaddy]

For a denser, (much) more full-bodied sound, from digital I would try an Ideon Absolute epsilon dac or (I would speculate) a Wadax reference.
Neither will sound exactly like a Kronos -- source material won't allow that even if the digital hardware were up to the task.

However, you may find that they are in a similar sonic category, pleasantly so.

[I actually had the opportunity to compare my epsilon to the big /floor standing Kronos, for the fun of it, no critical listening involved. Sources were Time Out - DSD vs vintage vinyl & Who's Next vintage pressing vs a masterfile seriesdigital. Electronics were TLA, Goebel speakers]

I know they are fuller sounding dacs upthere but I was pretty happy with Tambaqui till now when I have some other speakers as mentioned above. Wadax and ideon is way out of my reach financily. Maybe Pacific or Kassandra, or Rockna?

 

[morricab]

I know they are fuller sounding dacs upthere but I was pretty happy with Tambaqui till now when I have some other speakers as mentioned above. Wadax and ideon is way out of my reach financily. Maybe Pacific or Kassandra, or Rockna?

Kassandra or Helena are really good and will give you weight and fullness without too much warmth. Resolution is great as well. If you want to try something relatively affordable to see if that is the right direction then look for a used Ayon DAC, like Skylla 2, Stealth or Stratos...a CD5s is also superb sounding.

 

[morricab]

Yes original tweeters were replaced with Scanspek bevause one of the original was somewhet faulty.

Interesting...I guess as the tweeter takes over at very high frequencies it maybe is not that critical but I would have thought that the sensitivity of that tweeter is too low to match properly. I am looking at possibly changing my tweeters to Fostex FT96H supertweeters, to give a bit more air and I like compression drivers for highs as they tend to sound more realistic to me (at least with metal diaphragms).

 

[Zappadaddy]

Interesting...I guess as the tweeter takes over at very high frequencies it maybe is not that critical but I would have thought that the sensitivity of that tweeter is too low to match properly. I am looking at possibly changing my tweeters to Fostex FT96H supertweeters, to give a bit more air and I like compression drivers for highs as they tend to sound more realistic to me (at least with metal diaphragms).

I am not too technical , acually not all so I will ask Tomas Horning about that. He just sent me price 2x450euro + shiping. Will I benefit from that possibility?

 

[morricab]

I am not too technical , acually not all so I will ask Tomas Horning about that. He just sent me price 2x450euro + shiping. Will I benefit from that possibility?

You mean the price for 2 of the standard tweeters?

 

[Zappadaddy]

yes, he sent me a qoute 450e for each tweetr

 

[morricab]

yes, he sent me a qoute 450e for each tweetr

THat's a lot for paper cone tweeters...To be honest I am not sure what yours sound like with the Scanspeak tweeters, so it is hard to judge for me what the possible improvement would be...Clearly he has voiced the speaker with this tweeter in mind. He is also quite dedicated to it, as it is used in all his products over many generations.

That said, I sometimes miss the amazingly realistic highs I get from my Odeon La Bohemes, which have solid wood high frequency horns and a compression driver with Ti diaphragm. That is why I am toying with the idea of replacing the tweeters with the Fostex supertweeters. I will only do so if it is a reverseable change...no major cabinet surgery...based on my estimations, it is a drop-in replacement but might be a dB or 2 too hot...so might need to add a resistor to bring it down a bit. However, at such high frequencies it might just add "air" and sparkle without sounding bright.

 

[Gregm]

I know they are fuller sounding dacs upthere but I was pretty happy with Tambaqui till now when I have some other speakers as mentioned above. Wadax and ideon is way out of my reach financily. Maybe Pacific or Kassandra, or Rockna?

The Pacific could do it and you'll have added fun tube rolling! I don;t really know the digital Cerats. Alternatively, you could consider the dacs below the Absolute -- "Ion" or "Eos" which are considerably cheaper. Regards

 

[High Water Sound]

I have Tannoy Westminster Royal speakers, I like their sound but they miss something what I hear from some other great speakers, perhaps more resolution, more spark. Alsou tehy require proper room, I have it, they are very sensitive to quality source, amps, cables. Now I am searching for the last piece preamp to complete my mission TWR to sing at their best. But it seems it will also be the most difficult task. Friend of mine suggested to purchase other speakers to compare them with Tannoy thinking that for the money I will spent for preamp I can get better results with diffrent speakers. my budget was up to 15000 euros. I was thinking about this idea and thought hmm, maybe so. I have spent 10 years with TW and maybe I should try something else to see if my taste of sound developed some other way, I do not listen as much to rock music, I listen all kind of music now, a lot of jazz, some classical and other style, even electronica, ofcourse old rock and progressive still remain in my list of the most favorites. It happened that I found these monsters top of the line of Horning hybrid system - Horning Agalme. Since I am a bit megaloman I thought that would fit my bill. They are huge, tall 2m, deep 70cm, they have 12x bass 8inch Beyma speakers in the back in Horning hybrid set up and one tweeter and the baddest Lowther drivers of all PM65 in front. These speakers are exceptionaly revealing and transparent, especialy on classical music and jazz, excelent bass, incredible resolution. The problem is,it is not universal speaker, for some people that would not be acceptable, it does not play Black Sabbath a metal very well. But people who listen classical, jazz,soft rock, progressive rock or even electronica are in the heaven with these, you can hardly find speakers to play this way. Speakers going very low 18khz and the bass is very very tight even when producing the deepest notes, it is pleasure to listen acoustical music of any kind, so clear and real in the space nicely separated. 3D is also very very good. They are totaly diffrent then Tannoy WR of course so for me it is hard to get acustomed to that sound. I am not sure if I want to keep them since I listen all kind of music but they will behard to sell, they are tall 2m so they need bigger room. I forgot to mentionrest of the chain. The source is steraqming transport Pink Faun Ultra 2.16, dac Mola Tambaqui, Jorma aes ebu, going directly through Jorma Origo rca to Emirate SE-833 Challenge which create monstrous power of 80w per channel in single ended Class A and finyly through Jorma Prime speakers cables to TWR . When I applied the same system to Horning Agalme I found out that the sound is to thin for my taste,yes hugely transparent a nd resolving but it was to much for me and unlistenable when I compared them with my TWR, it misses the body of the instruments, it did not create the atmosfere like with my other speakers. It happend that I had NAT magnetic preamp on loan which I did not like very much with myTWR and I thoght to try it in this set up. Wow what a change with this preamp, suddenly the body of intruments got whatis required - the body,now I could listen to it. SoHorning also reveal the weakest ling in the chain. I heard these speakers in the seller s house with analog and I new something is wrong in my chain, could be Tamabaui as a preamp? Could be Tambaqui as dac sounding to thin? That let me thinking maybe I should try some other DAC like Aries Cerat HelenwúKassandra or Lampizator Pacific, maybe Horning would get fuller sound and that is what I think they need. Any thought, advices, experiences?

I thought I should chime in on this since I/High Water Sound am and have been for over 20 years the Horning Hybrid importer and distributor in the US. The Agalme you are referring to and showing pictures of is a previous model. The Agalme has had a significant reworking and or, update in the past few years. All the versions of the Agalme have been pretty amazing and happy to report, this newest version is my personal favorite. The immediacy, speed, clarity, coherence from top to bottom gives one the impression of a single driver speaker but, with full frequency range which no single driver speaker system can ever match. The latest version is also the easiest to drive (not that any of the other versions were not). As far as your comment on the Agalme do not do Black Sabbath justice is totally wrong. One of my party tricks during a demo is playing my OG of the first Black Sabbath record which always blows everyone's mind so, not sure what you heard or, the circumstances for your comment. Yes, they do classical, opera and jazz beautifully but, these babies can rock and rock with the best out there.

 

[morricab]

I thought I should chime in on this since I/High Water Sound am and have been for over 20 years the Horning Hybrid importer and distributor in the US. The Agalme you are referring to and showing pictures of is a previous model. The Agalme has had a significant reworking and or, update in the past few years. All the versions of the Agalme have been pretty amazing and happy to report, this newest version is my personal favorite. The immediacy, speed, clarity, coherence from top to bottom gives one the impression of a single driver speaker but, with full frequency range which no single driver speaker system can ever match. The latest version is also the easiest to drive (not that any of the other versions were not). As far as your comment on the Agalme do not do Black Sabbath justice is totally wrong. One of my party tricks during a demo is playing my OG of the first Black Sabbath record which always blows everyone's mind so, not sure what you heard or, the circumstances for your comment. Yes, they do classical, opera and jazz beautifully but, these babies can rock and rock with the best out there.

My Eufrodite Ellipse's did pretty fine with Tool...haven't tried Black Sabbath with them...not my normal home listening music. I agree with your assessment on the sounding like a single driver but with full range. I still have my doubts about the tweeter though...there is nothing wrong with it and it is inoffensive but I think I have heard more realistic highs with designs using other types of tweeters (plasma, ribbon and compression drivers)...just IMO. I don't think I have heard better bass overall with the possible exception of a huge pair of Acoustat Spectra 4400s that had gobsmackingly good bass. Mids (from lower to upper) are world class obviously and the reason to use the Lowther.

 

[High Water Sound]

My Eufrodite Ellipse's did pretty fine with Tool...haven't tried Black Sabbath with them...not my normal home listening music. I agree with your assessment on the sounding like a single driver but with full range. I still have my doubts about the tweeter though...there is nothing wrong with it and it is inoffensive but I think I have heard more realistic highs with designs using other types of tweeters (plasma, ribbon and compression drivers)...just IMO. I don't think I have heard better bass overall with the possible exception of a huge pair of Acoustat Spectra 4400s that had gobsmackingly good bass. Mids (from lower to upper) are world class obviously and the reason to use the Lowther.

Personally, I love the tweeter Tommy came up with. Is it the most extended and exciting no and that is precisely why I love it. It just opens seamlessly and adds the natural frequency extension the music requires. I have tried many super tweeters with various Hornings over the years and some have been just great but, at the end of the day, I personally love the speakers just as they are.

 

[morricab]

Personally, I love the tweeter Tommy came up with. Is it the most extended and exciting no and that is precisely why I love it. It just opens seamlessly and adds the natural frequency extension the music requires. I have tried many super tweeters with various Hornings over the years and some have been just great but, at the end of the day, I personally love the speakers just as they are.

Fair enough and I get that. Probably the blend is more seamless because it is from paper and therefore whatever material colorations there are are uniform across the whole frequency spectrum because the woofers are also paper. The most coherent speakers I have heard in my life all had essentially the same materials for all drivers. That is also what I liked about the brand Zellaton...they had a very funky conical type tweeter that was made from the same strange silvery sandwich material. It was a very coherent and interesting sounding speaker. Their newer models use a different material now for the woofers and mids and to me now the magic is lost in those models.