How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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With digital, everyone's experience seems to be specific. There are many reasons that could explain this.
kid yourself all you want.
i put in a $2.5k Muon system, a $2k switch, a $1k LPS, dedicated modem / router (also on LPS) and upgraded UBS-C cable from the LPS to the Wiim. its also on stillpoints (with mass on top)---thats stacking the deck for the Wiim w/ over $6k in upgrades to benefit it.

(and my dac has proprietary jitter reduction technology, which one would think would also benefit the Wiim)

it sounds great. and its miles behind the jays.
 
kid yourself all you want.
i put in a $2.5k Muon system, a $2k switch, a $1k LPS, dedicated modem / router (also on LPS) and upgraded UBS-C cable from the LPS to the Wiim. its also on stillpoints (with mass on top)---thats stacking the deck for the Wiim w/ over $6k in upgrades to benefit it.

(and my dac has proprietary jitter reduction technology, which one would think would also benefit the Wiim)

it sounds great. and its miles behind the jays.
kid yourself all you want.
i put in a $2.5k Muon system, a $2k switch, a $1k LPS, dedicated modem / router (also on LPS) and upgraded UBS-C cable from the LPS to the Wiim. its also on stillpoints (with mass on top)---thats stacking the deck for the Wiim w/ over $6k in upgrades to benefit it.

(and my dac has proprietary jitter reduction technology, which one would think would also benefit the Wiim)

it sounds great. and its miles behind the jays.
Well, I like the honesty that it's miles behind the Jay's. I was concerned someone would say that their streaming was miles ahead of the Jay's and CDs. Using a server with great mastered high sonic quality recordings appears to be just as rewarding per my own audition and that of my friends.
 
A WiiM streamer will be a compromise in any high quality streaming system. This Alpha Audio review lines up with the others I've read:

Pros

  • Cheap
  • Great app
  • All usual connectivity

Cons

  • Disappointing result with a better DAC
  • Upgrade of the power supply has limited effect

Conclusion

The conclusion, maybe unfortunately, is that the WiiM Pro+ is not the affordable diamond using it as a streaming bridge. Building a streamer at this price point forces a manufacturer to choose where to cut corners and that is clearly audible. The limits of the WiiM Pro+ performance are found pretty quick.

We value the WiiM Pro+ analogue out, it really delivers great value for money. But when you invest in a better DAC, you also need to invest in a better streamer to get return on that investment. The WiiM Pro+ just falls short and is not a good budget conscious choice to pair with a better DAC.

 
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A WiiM streamer will be a compromise in any high quality streaming system. This Alpha Audio review lines up with the others I've read:

Pros

  • Cheap
  • Great app
  • All usual connectivity

Cons

  • Disappointing result with a better DAC
  • Upgrade of the power supply has limited effect

Conclusion

The conclusion, maybe unfortunately, is that the WiiM Pro+ is not the affordable diamond using it as a streaming bridge. Building a streamer at this price point forces a manufacturer to choose where to cut corners and that is clearly audible. The limits of the WiiM Pro+ performance are found pretty quick.

We value the WiiM Pro+ analogue out, it really delivers great value for money. But when you invest in a better DAC, you also need to invest in a better streamer to get return on that investment. The WiiM Pro+ just falls short and is not a good budget conscious choice to pair with a better DAC.

Funny, because my findings are the opposite when you insert a "better DAC". Endless debate...
 
Funny, because my findings are the opposite when you insert a "better DAC". Endless debate...
I don’t know if you read the review. They didn’t say that the sound won't improve with a better external DAC. They said you will experience more of what the better DAC has to offer with a higher quality streamer.
I can't explain your findings, but other reviews I read compared the WiiM Pro to the BlueSound Node, and judged the Node superior. I don’t know of anyone claiming the Node is some sonic gem.
 
I don’t know if you read the review. They didn’t say that the sound won't improve with a better external DAC. They said you will experience more of what the better DAC has to offer with a higher quality streamer.
I can't explain your findings, but other reviews I read compared the WiiM Pro to the BlueSound Node, and judged the Node superior. I don’t know of anyone claiming the Node is some sonic gem.

I just judge on the end result, the entire system, and i have heard plenty of unconvincing digital irrespective of price.

Last unconvincing one I heard was this one, with a very expensive DAC and streamer:

images.jpeg

Maybe on that system streamer X will sound better than streamer Y, but if the end result in both cases is crap, what's the point? You just end up splitting hairs...

I'm skeptical of all these reviews rehashing the same BS. You get 5 people in a room all day swapping USB cables, or network switches, and you think they have any perspective? I have witnessed it first hand many times.

On the other hand there are plenty of audiophiles who have high quality systems and end up completely satisfied with basic digital sources.

Here is an example:


To be fair, the author actually slightly prefers another bargain but vintage model:

 
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Much of this is system dependent. I know this is WBF but many on this site don't have high end systems (I didn't until Jan 2024). The Shanling ET3 is great low cost transport at $729. I use it in my second system which is excellent sounding but with old used components of reduced resolution (Legacy Signature III speakers). It mimics my $235,000 system and is enjoyable. I would like many audiophiles who own high end systems have as emotionally appealing sound.
 
I just judge on the end result, the entire system, and i have heard plenty of unconvincing digital irrespective of price.

Last unconvincing one I heard was this one, with a very expensive DAC and streamer:

View attachment 152860

Maybe on that system streamer X will sound better than streamer Y, but if the end result in both cases is crap, what's the point? You just end up splitting hairs...

I'm skeptical of all these reviews rehashing the same BS. You get 5 people in a room all day swapping USB cables, or network switches, and you think they have any perspective? I have witnessed it first hand many times.

On the other hand there are plenty of audiophiles who have high quality systems and end up completely satisfied with basic digital sources.

Here is an example:


To be fair, the author actually slightly prefers another bargain but vintage model:

I love chamber music and with my 2 systems, a good recording (not too reverberant) sound like they are performing in from of me. I record the Viklarbo Chamber group for 9 years and it's astonishing to be so close to those musicians and going home to hear them again. The second system is tube based but the digital consists of the Shanling ET3 and Topping D70s. The cabling was more expensive than the equipment.
 
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Hello, thanks for sharing all that and just wanted to add a few things about the Jay's CDT here. The CDT2 is a very good sounding CDT and I can't think of how anyone would be unhappy with it. But the CDT3 really is one of the best sounding sources available at any cost, truly. In direct comparison somehow it is even more clear and resolving than the CDT2. Speaking from my own side by side experience.

I assume it's at least partially because of the maximum effort CLK it has, the whole R 3rd of the unit is dedicated to that CLK and its PSUs. We tried to master CLK the CDT3 with a couple of expensive external units (eg, Esotriec) and it did change slightly but didn't improve IMO. A first really IME.
And I assume the more expensive Pro2 mechanism plays some role as well but I have no way to compare to the CDM4 in the same unit. They also treat the output logic almost like analog with some high end local supply bypassing. Etc.

The CDT also offer an upsampling feature which might be appropriate for a DAC that is NOS for example.

In general I'd rank the output SQ as I2S > AES > SPDIF so it's usually best to use the I2S out if you can. Or even AES out to a good DDC to the DAC. AES is "pro" SPDIF essentially but it generally gets the nod over regular SPDIF IME as it uses differential signaling at least. I use a Gaia DDC in my own system and really like it.

Thanks, TK

Hi Todd,

It has not been my experience that an external 10 MHz clock feeding directly into the CDT3 hardly provides an improvement. On the contrary, I find it rather obvious on some, even though admittedly not all, music.

It will also depend on the clock of course; my Mutec REF10 SE120 is one of the best measuring 10 MHz clocks on the market. You mention Esoteric clocks; I searched for available measurements but couldn't find any (the published specifications are of limited value).

Here is a link to my review:

 
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