How good is MSB Discrete Dac?

[skids929]

Ordered, dual PS, proISL/USB. According to Alma Audio may ship in only 2-3 weeks!

nice!! Its an incredible dac !

 

[KeithR]

Hey Rob, receive the MSB goodness?

 

[rbbert]

About 2 weeks away according to Alex

 

[allhifi]

We have the Discrete on demo at the store. It's an amazing product for what it costs. The key here is whether you've had experience with other MSB DACs.

If you've only heard chip-based DACs, listening to an MSB, even the Discrete, is eye opening. We've just had a local fclient who listened to it at home, and

BTW, the two power supplies should be mandatory with either Discrete or Premier. The difference is huge. That bumps up the price a little, but it's worth it.

It appears universally agreed upon that MSB DAC's are 'Primo' (top-notch) .... and priced accordingly. However, if a/the second power-supply contributes that significantly to performance -and by all accounts it does- then MSB should see to it to include "the second P/S" within the same chassis, or enlarge the chassis to accept another transformer/regulation. Asking customers to pay another $2K (USD?) for another $100-$200 in parts is both unnecessary and a financial "tug" (grab) that should be dispensed with.
I suspect at $10K (USD/Discrete DAC) there is enough margin to cover "costs". OR, alternately, price the thing at $10,995 -and be done with it.

pete jasz

 

[allhifi]

View attachment 53149

I auditioned MSB Discrete, Premier and Lampiziator Pacific on 23rd May in Seoul, Korea.

The source was simple Roon Nucleus with Octave Tube pre and Viola Monoblocks.

I also added just one more power supply to MSB Discrete, Premier as suggested by other member.


I started with Discrete first.

It sounds balanced with good details which belies its price tag of 11,500$ with one more power supply.

I played two vocals(one classical and one Jazz) one classical concertos and one New Age.

After switching to Premier, the sound changed drastic with more refined sound and tone color.

The difference of sound between Discrete and Premier is not minor.

After listening to Premier, I can not go back to Discrete.


MSB discrete sounds just slightly better than my 10 years old EMMLab Dac2(New price 9K$).

No consideration for upgrade at all.


After switching to Pacific, the sound had more body, timber and bass slam.

Pacific cost 25K$ in USA so It may be fair to compare it with Premier with improved clock.

Unfortunately they did not have upgraded clock.

But the difference of sound between Pacific and Premier is not so drastic as those between Premier and Discrete.

I say Premier is better than Discrete by 40% but Pacific is better than Premier by 15%.

With power bass block or upgraded clock, Premier may match the sound of Pacific.


I try to limit my budget to 20K$.

Thus I had hoped that the difference between Premier and Discrete shall be minor.so that I can be happy with Discrete.

But I will not consider MSB Discrete at all after this audition.



On 26th, I will audition Trinity Dac and Aqua Formula XHd with SGM Extreme server.

Let us see what happens.

Oh my .... such humble beginnings ....and how times/perceptions have changed (within a single generation):

https://www.stereophile.com/content/msb-link-dac-iii-da-converter-page-3

EXCERPT:

Encore
" ...I thought the original MSB Link was an unbeatable value. I was wrong. The Link III is even better, and more exciting. The sound qualities of the Full and Half Nelson versions are excellent and fully justify the prices. As for the other sonic goodies, the P1000 and the Upsampling Option are both desirable and cost-effective. Add them all up, however, and the price approaches $1400, so a little prioritizing might be called for. If you're thinking about plonking down all that cash at once, there are many other DACs to consider, including MSB's own Gold Link and Bel Canto's DAC 1.

But few products short of a Swiss Army knife offer the versatility and options of the Link III. I recommend that you start with the Full Nelson version if you want to realize the full potential of the Link III. Unless you're sure you'll never have an AES/EBU source, pass up the Half Nelson and go all the way.

As for upgrades, the P1000 is the mandatory next step because it lets the AES/EBU Link to really sing. Upsampling? Nice but not essential. HDCD? Useful but not urgent. Virtual 3D? Not for me. 192kHz processing? I can hardly wait.

You make your own choices with the Full Nelson/P1000 version of the MSB Link III: a great DAC that can play anything today, and is adaptable for the future."

pj
/

 

[allhifi]

I don't care if a DAC sounds "analog" or not. I take unamplified live music as reference, and that is what a DAC should sound like, as much as possible. And that's what an analog set-up should sound like, too.

That makes no sense:

" ...I don't care if a DAC sounds "analog" or not. I take unamplified live music as reference, and that is what a DAC should sound like, as much as possible. And that's what an analog set-up should sound like, too."

How can that possibly make sense ? Your "reference" (for recorded music) is live, unamplified music ??

pj

 

[rbbert]

That makes no sense:

" ...I don't care if a DAC sounds "analog" or not. I take unamplified live music as reference, and that is what a DAC should sound like, as much as possible. And that's what an analog set-up should sound like, too."

How can that possibly make sense ? Your "reference" (for recorded music) is live, unamplified music ??

pj

It is the ostensible but of course currently unobtainable goal for most home "hi fi" systems. It also supposes that there is a source recording that attempts to accurately record "live, unamplified music", and there are not that many around (and even more rarely of music I would want to listen to, although that may not true for all listeners). A number of classical (and a very few jazz) labels do limit the amount of mastering between recording and release, but there is almost always some.

 

[allhifi]

It is the ostensible but of course currently unobtainable goal for most home "hi fi" systems. It also supposes that there is a source recording that attempts to accurately record "live, unamplified music", and there are not that many around (and even more rarely of music I would want to listen to, although that may not true for all listeners). A number of classical (and a very few jazz) labels do limit the amount of mastering between recording and release, but there is almost always some.

I'm reminded of a photography analogy: " ..A photograph does not (cannot) replicate the real thing ".. yet we can certainly appreciate the attempt and judge its authenticity based on other interpretations -and ultimately what it captures or how it resonates with our senses.
In other words, it must be judged using completely different metrics -than the real thing.

pj

 

[Billion$Baby]

My buddy had the Discrete in for a trial run. He greatly preferred the DAC in the Esoteric K-01XD Disc Spinner. Sent the Discrete right back. Told me it wasnt even close...For what its worth.

 

[rbbert]

My buddy had the Discrete in for a trial run. He greatly preferred the DAC in the Esoteric K-01XD Disc Spinner. Sent the Discrete right back. Told me it wasnt even close...For what its worth.

Isn't it 2-3x the price of the Discrete and more appropriately compared to the MSB Premier?

 

[Billion$Baby]

Isn't it 2-3x the price of the Discrete and more appropriately compared to the MSB Premier?

MSRP is 23K...but your not paying that amount for just the Dac obviously. Think my friend paid around 13.5K for it...he gets great discounts...Totally envious!!

 

[rbbert]

MSRP is 23K...but your not paying that amount for just the Dac obviously. Think my friend paid around 13.5K for it...he gets great discounts...Totally envious!!

I think about $28k (US, not Europe). There are used ones at eBay listed for under $8000; resale value may not the only indication of a component's true worth, but it is certainly an important one which doesn't put the Esoteric in a very good light.

More to the point, how he connected the MSB and to what source may have colored his opinion.

Of course if everyone agreed what is "best" there wouldn't be so many options available to us

 

[Billion$Baby]

The K-01XD just came out last year. There is certainly NONE on EBAY for 8K....you have your Models wrong obviously.

 

[rbbert]

Yes indeed, the K-01CD came up on a search and I didn't pay close enough attention

 

[gds7368]

My buddy had the Discrete in for a trial run. He greatly preferred the DAC in the Esoteric K-01XD Disc Spinner. Sent the Discrete right back. Told me it wasnt even close...For what its worth.

What was the setup (specifically the source) for the comparison?

Spinning discs?
External source (such as Roon Nucleus, etc.) through both DAC sections using the exact same interconnect?

I would like to understand this comparison better. Thanks.

 

[Motoman]

Can you define "a little"?

I think that list for a second power supply is about $1,450. But you really need two. I had only one while I waited for the Premier Power Base that I had ordered. The Power Base is a lot of $$$ but the difference between one power supply and the Power Base is huge.

 

[allhifi]

It is the ostensible but of course currently unobtainable goal for most home "hi fi" systems. It also supposes that there is a source recording that attempts to accurately record "live, unamplified music", and there are not that many around (and even more rarely of music I would want to listen to, although that may not true for all listeners). A number of classical (and a very few jazz) labels do limit the amount of mastering between recording and release, but there is almost always some.

Hmmm ... in which case brings us full circle:

" ...I don't care if a DAC sounds "analog" or not. I take unamplified live music as reference, and that is what a DAC should sound like, as much as possible. And that's what an analog set-up should sound like, too." (???)

So, you don't care if a DAC sounds 'analog' (i.e. the closest to live, acoustic music) but then tell us to seek a DAC that sounds like live music !
And further to say: " ....And that's what an analog set-up should sound like, too."

Finally:

"It is the ostensible but of course currently unobtainable goal for most home "hi fi" systems."

That's your (unobtainable) "goal" for hi-fi.

pj