How large is the high end audio market?

[JackD201]

How about we look at the number one print magazine's subscriptions and ask what % of subscribers are US based? That would yield a conservative baseline I think.

 

[cpp]

How about we look at the number one print magazine's subscriptions and ask what % of subscribers are US based? That would yield a conservative baseline I think.

And how do you figure to obtain this information

 

[TheMadMilkman]

And how do you figure to obtain this information

You could ask JA. He's been very up front with the circulation numbers in the past, and I'm sure that information is kept internally.

Their media kit only gives the total circulation of about 70,000. What is interesting is that this number has been fairly stable for a long time. I remember looking it up back in 2004 and it was roughly the same number.

 

[cpp]

You could ask JA. He's been very up front with the circulation numbers in the past, and I'm sure that information is kept internally.

Their media kit only gives the total circulation of about 70,000. What is interesting is that this number has been fairly stable for a long time. I remember looking it up back in 2004 and it was roughly the same number.

http://abcas3.auditedmedia.com/ecirc/magtitlesearch.asp the numbers are 72,531

 

[audioguy]

About 20 years ago, I was working for an audio company (Cambridge Signal Technologies) and we wanted to do a mailing into the Atlanta market and purchased the Stereophile mailing list.

We did a segmented mailing and after some time, I followed up with some of the receivers of the mailing (don't recall how I got the numbers). Anyway, what I found out was that a large number of those Stereophile readers did not own anything that would be considered a high end audio system (the product I was trying to sell started at $6000 !). I guess they just like to read about high end audio products. I don't know if that is still true but I would bet that some non-insignificant percent of the TAS/Stereophile readers would not fall into the category of high end audio owners !!

 

[BlueFox]

Well, it appears large enough to support a number of individual vendors supplying tube, solid state, or both in pre-amps, amps, DACs, phono pre-amps, file players, turntables, speakers, and any cable you can imagine.

 

[garylkoh]

About 20 years ago, I was working for an audio company (Cambridge Signal Technologies) and we wanted to do a mailing into the Atlanta market and purchased the Stereophile mailing list.

We did a segmented mailing and after some time, I followed up with some of the receivers of the mailing (don't recall how I got the numbers). Anyway, what I found out was that a large number of those Stereophile readers did not own anything that would be considered a high end audio system (the product I was trying to sell started at $6000 !). I guess they just like to read about high end audio products. I don't know if that is still true but I would bet that some non-insignificant percent of the TAS/Stereophile readers would not fall into the category of high end audio owners !!

I would venture a guess that subscribers of Playboy also do not have wives/girlfriends that look anything like the Playmates

 

[JackD201]

I would venture a guess that subscribers of Playboy also do not have wives/girlfriends that look anything like the Playmates

ROTFL!

Yeah but deep down we wish right?

 

[audioguy]

I would venture a guess that subscribers of Playboy also do not have wives/girlfriends that look anything like the Playmates

Now THAT is funny !

 

[Audio_Karma]

I've read the high end is a 200 million market, 1/2 the size a decade ago.

Prices has been getting out of control for some time now, that's why you see the High End market slowly going down over the years.

 

[Habanero Monk]

What is every one considering the 'High end'?

I know a $400 computer today would be considered astonishingly high end 10 years ago and earth shattering 20 years ago given the same form factor.

I think accurate reproduction, quality crest levels, good polar response, off axis response is much better represented in even the lower cost tier market.

Quality amplification that is clean, transparent, flat response, linear is ultra affordable. You can get DAC's that for $500-600 get you 99.9% of the function and sq of something that cost $10K just 5 years ago.

High bit rate audio is ubiquitous.

 

[audioguy]

What is every one considering the 'High end'?

Per my original post, a entire system with an MSRP starting at $10K to $20K.

 

[Orb]

I've read the high end is a 200 million market, 1/2 the size a decade ago.

High end market has sort of evoled since a decade ago IMO; there is more elite high end customers around now than before (but balanced with the number of manufacturers competing for their wallet).
"Entry" high end has possibly increased because price/performance can be amazing, the squeezed high end hobbyists are those more in the traditional middle where prices have followed that ever increasing trend.

However headphone market is even skewing this; look at the price of Oppos new high end headphone amp and headphone, not cheap in context of headphone components - on the plus rated very well I think by Keith Howard.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Habanero Monk]

Per my original post, a entire system with an MSRP starting at $10K to $20K.

I didn't ask what you considered high end. I already know you think $10-$20K is high end. Someone could spend that just on cables and have zero sound. I asked what everyone considered high end. My point being is you vectored in monetarily.

So I'll ask everyone again: What do you consider a 'High end' system?

My version is one that, disregarding price, has good 20Hz (or sub) to 20Khz, can play linearly, low distortion, good CSD, ability to EQ, capable of high SPL w/o compressing or clipping.

Now what that costs is another matter and the value of is subjective.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I didn't ask what you considered high end. I already know you think $10-$20K is high end. Someone could spend that just on cables and have zero sound. I asked what everyone considered high end. My point being is you vectored in monetarily.

So I'll ask everyone again: What do you consider a 'High end' system?

My version is one that, disregarding price, has good 20Hz (or sub) to 20Khz, can play linearly, low distortion, good CSD, ability to EQ, capable of high SPL w/o compressing or clipping.

Now what that costs is another matter and the value of is subjective.

Two channel audio is too often defined by price and by hobbyist gear-centric elitism, too seldom by real world performance in the service of music lovers. To address the excellent exchange between Mike and Gary, the folks who are progressing from earbuds to quality headphones to dedicated home headphone rigs are prime targets for the next step. They should take that next step; listening to music, not as background, but as a singular experience, is a wonderful thing that most people are missing these days. But looking down on their music, their media, and everything in the market that is affordable is not winning any converts.

Tim

 

[puroagave]

High end market has sort of evoled since a decade ago IMO; there is more elite high end customers around now than before (but balanced with the number of manufacturers competing for their wallet).
"Entry" high end has possibly increased because price/performance can be amazing, the squeezed high end hobbyists are those more in the traditional middle where prices have followed that ever increasing trend.

However headphone market is even skewing this; look at the price of Oppos new high end headphone amp and headphone, not cheap in context of headphone components - on the plus rated very well I think by Keith Howard.
Cheers
Orb

did you read the feature set carefully? Its not only a high end headphone amp that can drive orthotics through balanced XLRs, but an asynchronous USB DAC Up to 384 kHz and DSD256! it has balanced/SE analog input and outputs and a remote controlled preamp section. Add active speakers with the ability to add an add'l analog source and this could be the heart of a killer little system. for $1200, its a helluva deal...

 

[garylkoh]

did you read the feature set carefully? Its not only a high end headphone amp that can drive orthotics through balanced XLRs, but an asynchronous USB DAC Up to 384 kHz and DSD256! it has balanced/SE analog input and outputs and a remote controlled preamp section. This could be the heart of a killer little system with active speakers with the ability to add an add'l analog source. for $1200, its a helluva deal...

In the good old days, preamps had a phono stage and a headphones jack. This is bringing that utility to the modern age. If it sounds that good, I agree - it's a deal.

This is what we need to bring the high-end to the mp3 generation. Not another $100,000 loudspeaker. The folks who are progressing from mp3's don't need an analog source. If they want one, get a turntable with a built-in phono stage.

 

[cpp]

High end market has sort of evoled since a decade ago IMO; there is more elite high end customers around now than before (but balanced with the number of manufacturers competing for their wallet).
"Entry" high end has possibly increased because price/performance can be amazing, the squeezed high end hobbyists are those more in the traditional middle where prices have followed that ever increasing trend.

However headphone market is even skewing this; look at the price of Oppos new high end headphone amp and headphone, not cheap in context of headphone components - on the plus rated very well I think by Keith Howard.
Cheers
Orb

Oh sure it has evolved but it evolved to music downloads, iTunes for example and mobile devices catering to the young generation and that mass of people I would not consider elite and spending more than a the price of a car for TT, AMPS or speakers.

And the headphone market, sure some of these headphones and amps can cost a few thousand dollars but that is a lot cheaper than say spending way upwards above $5k.

 

[cpp]

Regarding folks progressing from ears buds to dedicated headphone rigs. I think that's about far as most of those people will go. Sure they owned cheap ears buds, and a few have graduated to say JH Audio custom molded in-ear or even quality full sized headphones and added a DAC/Headphone amps but for most that's about it and a person can add a DAC/Headphone combo for a lot less than moving to the so called 'high end' status area, buying amps that can heat a room or speakers that cost more than the car they drive to work. I personally don't see these "mobile/downloaders" adding $20k speakers or $10k amps to their homes. The new generation is very mobile and I feel they will continue to want mobility in lieu of being stagnate at home listening to tunes.


From where I live and the high end "stereo shops" that used to reside in my state, I think high end sales are indeed down when one observes how many high end audio shops have closed throughout the US since the early 2000's. In my opinion, I feel high end audio will go the same route as the land-line telephone, sure a few will still hang on to the dedicated high end system with speakers that cost more than cars, but those older types of users are dying off each year along with the high end hobby as it moves towards music downloads and streaming reducing the high end audio marker. Heck I miss the stores and the experience.

 

[Habanero Monk]

But looking down on their music, their media, and everything in the market that is affordable is not winning any converts.

Tim

I don't even mind the looking down. It's the purely subjective way that it is done.

I have no issues someone saying you could do X/Y/Z or purchase X/Y/Z but if you can't back it with the proverbial blind fold then I don't know how much anyone, including the earbud wearing crowd should listen.

There was a thread years ago on another forum where people were raving about cable burn in. A member offered to send out two sets of cables, two burned in and two not. They would be randomly labeled and participant could do this fully sighted and with out the stress of a test administrator. It showed that there is a lot of blow hards out there and they certainly don't help the person outside to get into this hobby / passion / what have you in an intellectually honest manner.