I am sick of failing amplifiers

[Lagonda]

11

My Porsche has been rock solid. No issues other than my wife drilling the front fender into a high curb in her parking garage, Twice.

Exactly ! Porsche’s are rock solid. I drove a 911 for a year in Germany, 280km/h for hours at a time on the autobahn with not one single repair.

 

[knghifi]

One positive with COVID is light traffic where I can enjoy my 911. Traffic has picked up past week but still light and people are driving fast.

 

[Holli82]

Don't want to sidetrack the thread. No question about it, my last 3 911's are as reliable as a Honda.

I love my tubes, but they remind me Ferrari. When things are good they are great. When thing go wrong........

With that said , other than tubes, my VAC gear has been great. I'll put up with the occasional tube drama because I just love what tubes do for my system.

 

[Solypsa]

Tubes add a wear item no doubt, so you can't argue with SS being more reliable- but those old school industrial tube amps from the mid 20th century worked every day for decades. What is it with (many, not all) modern tube amps? Pushing for higher outputs? Just wondering...

 

[KeithR]

I've been there a half dozen times over the years. It sucks. On tube gear, I've had blown fuses, arc'd tubes, blown OPTs, busted power transformer, frazzled resistors, non-working meters, etc. All on non-vintage gear.

I've given up and now permanently solid state. My new Ampzillas have given me some issues, too.

 

[Kingrex]

I've given up and now permanently solid state. My new Ampzillas have given me some issues, too.

Ampzillas are on my short list. bummer you had issues. Hopefully nothing serious and under warranty.

In the interim I have my Allo Volt+D in ($149). Yesterday my wife was saying how great the vinyl is. This morning I was working out in front of my gear with the vinyl on. I was thinking the same thing. My system sounds pretty darn good. Maybe I think I like tubes, but actually like SS. I don't know now.

 

[KeithR]

Ampzillas are on my short list. bummer you had issues. Hopefully nothing serious and under warranty.

No, it's not the Ampzillas themselves, rather the interaction with my 1950s power grid in the house that can blow a fuse. They've worked totally fine in a friends' house.

 

[Solypsa]

@CKKeung uses MC2. I wonder how the S800 would fare in this mix.

Back 15yrs ago when I was in the mastering studio business MC2 was always considered an excellent sleeper and frequently used with horns (albeit in pro settings). They do have fans so a quiet fan mod is common...

 

[Kingrex]

I took my Black Shadows to a local guy. I also called Audion. My amps are 2001. 19 years old. Base of base model. The local guy soldered loose connections never soldered, just wrapped. Also replaced a cap that was leaking goo into amp. He also tried to lace some of the loose wires and caps floating in the air with nothing support them. He likened them to guitar strings.

The Audion importer highly recommend I send the amps to MA to be brought back to spec. He in no way believes it should be so microphonic. On a bright side, he was very good friends with one of the guys who had his hands in here and did confirm the upgrades were used as recommendations to Audion to improve the newer models. The bummer is, for what I will have into them after repairs, I could have bought a brand new base model such as these. There have been at least 5 sets of improvements since mine were born. Mine even have the old tinker toy erector set frame that holds up the power supply. I'm not sure how much can be done for the amps. At a minimum, Audion is sure they can get them functional again.

Of course, the thought, do I dump them for a big loss and move on. Or do I fix them comes to mind. They sound nice, but never clicked in my system. Is that the amp, tubes, my system. Do I take what little I could get for them and apply it to a SS amp. I think I need to just stop and breath for a minute. Get my other amps back and really decide what is best.

 

[Atmasphere]

Rex, IMO if you want to sort out tube amps, a track record of the manufacturer is always a good idea to look up. They should have been around for a while. Look at what people say about them online. Personally I prefer the amp to be handwired, as that makes things a lot easier to service down the road, particularly in the case of tube sockets. The amp should not use tubes that aren't readily available. The cost of the tubes should not be crazy money! Its nice to have that bit of audio jewery in your living room, but the fact is that chassis bling comes at a price. Always audition the amp in your system before pulling the trigger. Specs don't always tell you the whole story.

A special note on SETs- you really don't want to run them past about 20% of full power, as in most cases that's where the higher ordered harmonic distortion starts to show up- contributing to 'dynamics' as those harmonics are used by the ear to sense sound pressure and they start showing up initially on transients. SETs have trouble making power and bandwidth at the same time; so about 8 watts is about as much power as you can usually make and still be 'hifi'. So an 8 watt amp is really only good for about 2 watts if you really want to hear what that amp is really all about. IIRC your speakers are in the mid-upper 90s for efficiency, so SETs might be challenged to strut their stuff on your system.

BTW if dealing with tubes the efficiency spec in speakers is far more useful than the sensitivity spec since tubes don't double power as impedance is halved!

Many tube amps are not all that different from their vintage forebears; your Ikes are a good example, being based on the Eico ST-70 circuit of the 1950s. Believe it or not, they actually have made progress in amplifier circuits since then! If you want a nice reliable amp with good specs and a great track record, the Berning 'ZOTL' amps are a good choice. No-one faults those as they sound great, are built by a great designer and they hold together. I am of course partial to amps that are not a rehash of 1950s designs

Don't give up hope- there's a lot of good stuff out there.

 

[Solypsa]

Rex, one of my clients in Seattle uses the Berning zotl amps...once c19 issues relax we could probably go over and listen...

 

[Al M.]

I've been there a half dozen times over the years. It sucks. On tube gear, I've had blown fuses, arc'd tubes, blown OPTs, busted power transformer, frazzled resistors, non-working meters, etc. All on non-vintage gear.

I've given up and now permanently solid state. My new Ampzillas have given me some issues, too.

You had ARC right? My Octave amplification has given me zero problems so far, with the power amp going on two and a half years. A friend has CAT amps, 4 years without any issues.

 

[Kingrex]

I hear Atmasphere M-60 Mk3 OTL monoblocks are pretty good.

 

[KeithR]

You had ARC right? My Octave amplification has given me zero problems so far, with the power amp going on two and a half years. A friend has CAT amps, 4 years without any issues.

I've had tube amps from numerous companies with issues. Most of the big ones.

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Al M.]

I've had tube amps from numerous companies with issues. Most of the big ones.

Consider yourself lucky.

I do, thanks!

 

[Kingrex]

Rex, one of my clients in Seattle uses the Berning zotl amps...once c19 issues relax we could probably go over and listen...

I'm always up to hearing a system. My wife is the one dictating when I can go. Or when people can come over. We still need to try one of your Sensitive Sound cartridge on my Motus II

 

[Atmasphere]

I hear Atmasphere M-60 Mk3 OTL monoblocks are pretty good.

The reason we are still in business after nearly 45 years is that when a tube fails, it doesn't toast the amp or the speakers. You have to assume that a tube is going to fail- the amp should be built to withstand that. Back when I worked at the Allied Radio Shack service center in the early and mid 1970s, it annoyed me quite a lot when a Harmon Kardon Citation 2 would come in and need resistors replaced in the output section because a power tube failed. But at the same time I noticed that if a tube failed in the Dynaco ST70 nothing happened other than the amp stopped working right. So I kept that in mind when it was my turn...

 

[Zero000]

[QUOTE="Atmasphere, post: 651786, member: Personally I prefer the amp to be handwired, as that makes things a lot easier to service down the road, particularly in the case of tube sockets. [/QUOTE]

This is a massive point I think. Double sided PCBs can be even more of an issue and ripped PCB tracks around valve sockets are a complete pain in the buttress.

Buy hardwired valve gear wherever possible if longevity is an issue for you. Or circuit mods WRT upgrades. Whether it be amps, DACs, tuners etc.

Also lots of available free space allows all sorts of potential for bigger and better things to be done to your treasured component.

Don't fall for the PCB approach being better. It has some advantages, but overall it isn't better by quite a margin IMHO.

 

[Kingrex]

One of my amps under repair is a PCB. DIY Tube V2. The board was not grounded well and has layout issues. There is no way to adjust layout issues. If crosstalk is there, your stuck with it. I was told they will never be dead silent.

My Black Shadow have some PCB, but it looks like its just on the PS were all te smoothing caps land. All the signal is P2P. Hopefully I don't have issues there. My local guy fixed the burned out 400 volt cap and tied up loose wire. The amp is much more quiet. I am thinking of having a machine shop make some better parts for it. The signal and driver are on a flimsy piece of tin on just as flimsy steel stands. I want a 1/4" piece of copper milled as the top plate with billet Aluminum legs to support them. Maybe the same for the power supply that sits on some weird erector set of threaded rod and coupler. I bet it will reduce the microphonics.

 

[Hear Here]

A special note on SETs- you really don't want to run them past about 20% of full power, as in most cases that's where the higher ordered harmonic distortion starts to show up.

That's no good if the SET uses 45, PX-25, 300B etc as their output valve. 20% of 4-8 watts is 0.8 to 1.6 watts output. How many speakers will be able to offer volume satisfaction to their listeners with that sort of power? When I used PX-25 to power my 102 dB speakers they had to work at far more than 20% much of the time - but they did sound divine!

Peter