I cannot imagine dealing with any separate tower, or large housing above the AS that a conventional linear tracker would require. those are out as options. at minimum it would need to be a pivoted linear tracker mounted in a conventional arm board.
I said I would never buy another Turntable...Argh !!!
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I cannot imagine dealing with any separate tower, or large housing above the AS that a conventional linear tracker would require. those are out as options. at minimum it would need to be a pivoted linear tracker mounted in a conventional arm board.
That’s a shame Mike. It’s not my project, my baby, so I can’t really comment.
Then again plenty of people couldn’t easily contemplate having a tt with the dead weight of the AS, so it’s all personal circumstances.
Then again plenty of people couldn’t easily contemplate having a tt with the dead weight of the AS, so it’s all personal circumstances.
Marc, does your entire analog front end really cost less than $1.5K? Or is this only the price of the Terminator or unmodified, stock Trans Fi table?
steve williams
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Having spent 5 days at David's house a few years ago and spending at least a day listening to all of his turntables, arms and cartridges, one thing became clearly evident to me. To wit, IMO I have never met anyone as knowledgeable about vinyl as David. I picked his brain each and very day to understand his philosophy that "above else, everything must sound natural." We discussed arms and cartridges at great lengths. David has personal knowledge of countless arms but when all is said and done at the end of the day his personal preference 100% of the time is the SME 3012R. I went to school on his putt and bought an NOS 3012R which I now use virtually 100% of my listening time.
If it were me I know exactly which arm I would buy. It was refreshing for me to watch David go into his museum of audio equipment looking for arms and return a few minutes later with a handful of SME3012R. I was fascinated by this, that given his experience, his multitude of tables and cartridges, at the end of the day David's sole go to arm for every table even if that table accepted 3 or 4 arms. There was no variation because in David's opinion the sound was the most natural with the SME 3012R.
David is a wealth of information and this is his baby.When I heard the AS at his house I reported here that form ears it was my personal favorite with the SME3012R arm. But as Marc states, this isn't his project baby or mine but if it were I know exactly what I would be doing
If it were me I know exactly which arm I would buy. It was refreshing for me to watch David go into his museum of audio equipment looking for arms and return a few minutes later with a handful of SME3012R. I was fascinated by this, that given his experience, his multitude of tables and cartridges, at the end of the day David's sole go to arm for every table even if that table accepted 3 or 4 arms. There was no variation because in David's opinion the sound was the most natural with the SME 3012R.
David is a wealth of information and this is his baby.When I heard the AS at his house I reported here that form ears it was my personal favorite with the SME3012R arm. But as Marc states, this isn't his project baby or mine but if it were I know exactly what I would be doing
Well, Salvation tt w Terminator arm was £2400/$3000.
Terminator arm alone £800/$1200.
I’ve pretty much doubled that outlay w custom options
Add another $12k for Straingauge and custom options to this.
And price of Stacore Adv.
Terminator arm alone £800/$1200.
I’ve pretty much doubled that outlay w custom options
Add another $12k for Straingauge and custom options to this.
And price of Stacore Adv.
Marc, I think that a distinction should be made between the goal of lessoning tangential tracking errors and the price/trade-offs inherent with the implementation of such a design. Implementing a longer arm, in the case of the SME 3012, V-12 or Kuzma 14" 4Point, for example, is different from the issues that most linear tracking arms introduce, only one of which is the air bearing. There are also issues with resonance, differences between horizontal and vertical mass, and there may be some more of which I am not aware. Even the 9" SAT arm can be custom ordered in a longer length, however, some people are not convinced that some extra length improves sonics given the added issues with moving mass, resonance, inertia, etc.
Besides claimed lower tracking errors, what other advantages does your linear arm have over the arms that these AS2000 owners now use? And do you think there are any potential disadvantages with such a system that might explain why these guys are not considering linear air bearing arms?
I do not doubt that you are very happy with your linear arm. However, my impression is that the issue is more complicated than simply trying to lower tangental tracking errors.
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my Airtangent Reference can be mounted in a conventional armboard in the same way as a radial arm
this arm is like horns and tubes.....I never look back
the question is how this fantastical piece of engineering will stand up against an all out R2R
after I started with R2R´s I spend less on hardware and more on software
best
Leif
after I started with R2R´s I spend less on hardware and more on software
best
Leif
Fantastic photograph which really illustrates the incredible beauty of this design. Christian, do you have any images of the base without the platter mounted or of the bottom of the platter? I am very curious about what happens between the bass and platter and the shape of the surfaces which form the air bearing.
David, if there were sufficient demand, would you consider another production run of this turntable, or is it finished because of the availability of the motor and controller?
That's easy, an all out R2R with the the perfect master tape will have the edge over any vinyl system as far most natural goes but at this level the difference isn't much and only apparent if everything else is right. Vinyl's clear advantage is near unlimited software one is very limited with tape because of that I see R2R as the side show and vinyl the main event.
david
my guess is that as time goes by, and more people get exposed to the performance of the American Sounds AS-2000, requests for 'how it's done' will get louder and louder. David will have to deal with that. and wanting to see how the platter<->plinth design looks will be likely a very popular question.
so far his answer to me was 'buy one'. and that's what he told Micro back a few pages.
The motor isn't the limitation Peter I have enough of them and there are alternatives if I ran out. There is some additional demand already but I haven't decided to go ahead with it. This was a one time project that I wanted for many years but never got around to doing it, the people who backed the project here made it happen with Ron kicking it off during his visit at the beginning of the year but I'm still seriously contemplating the smaller version.
david
Mike, are you not curious to directly compare the AS200 to the NVS? You have some great audio friends in the area who might also enjoy hearing them side by side and learning the differences. I understand that if you have a buyer and no real interest in keeping it around that you sell it now. And it is of course your choice to make, but if you can keep it, why not hold on to it at least until just after you get the new table?
Thanks, David. Again, I commend and congratulate you on your efforts to see this project through and you deserve all of the recognition of a job very well done. I am truly fascinated by the buzz and actual reports about the sonics of this turntable. Not knowing your personal situation, I can understand some hesitancy to becoming a small time turntable manufacturer/dealer. But, the results you have achieved and the joy that you could bring to other enthusiasts, must be worth contemplating. It must be very rewarding for you.
And Mike's comments are really interesting. As more people do get exposed to this AS2000, it may just encourage established manufacturers to start rethinking their approaches toward turntable design, and particularly, non suspended, mass loaded, belt drive systems. It really seems a fascinating time to be involved with analog.
As an aside, I invited my 16 year old daughter to listen to some music with me last night. She loves the old classic singers: Ella, Etta James, Frank Sinatra, Louise Armstrong. We played "Ella and Louise" and "Louise Armstrong and Duke Ellington". Two classics if there ever were any. She asked me to turn off the lights, and then she sat there mesmerized by the sonics of the 45rpm disks for nearly an hour. She told me that none of her friends even know who these singers are, and yet she loves them. I suppose some might think that a bit odd for a young person in today's world, but there might be something to be said about introducing kids to good music on a good system, even by these standards, my relatively modest one. Like some of my audiophile friends, she just sat, not saying a word, and listened.
been going back and forth for a month or so on this question. however; finally looking at pictures of the finished product, and reading between the lines from Christian's feedback, has tipped me off the fence. and making this decision simplifies all my preparations and logistics on integrating the American Sounds into my system. i agree that others would value the compare between the units. they will have to travel to Christian's or Tang's or David's for that part. or 'settle' for my MSB or Studer's.
i do see having two identical arms on the AS-2000 along with the two identical phono sections of the dart pre to allow for cartridge compares.
there is a serenity to a singular approach to digital, vinyl and tape which does appeal to me. just the music and not so much thinking. I've had the 6 tape decks, and 4 tt's, and three dacs. it never improved my experience. but i acknowledge the pull to do the multiple tt thing. i feel that compulsion myself too. but not for now.
That makes sense and I respect that it is your choice. I kept my old SME 10 when the SME 30/12 arrived simply so that I could spend a month carefully comparing the different tables with the same arm/cartridge, then the different lenght arms, and finally different cartridges. I needed that experience to better understand how to listen for various differences and improvements and how relatively meaningful they were given values and prices. As soon as I was finished, I sold off the SME 10. You have much more experience with these kinds of evaluations, and a more complicated system with multiple sources.
I'm sure you will find a buyer for the NVS who will welcome the opportunity to own such a table.
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