If “There Should Be Tubes Somewhere,” Then Where?

[JackD201]

Seeing this, it struck me that I've never seen a thread: If "There Should Be Mosfets Somewhere," Then Where?
;-)

Because everyone knows the answer is driver stages

 

[XV-1]

The FM 155 was better than AR ref 6 in an all tube system. Ultimately the owner (Tzbc) preferred the Ayon conquistador to both

The Soulution 720 pre was better than the Allnic L5000 in an all Allnic system with Avalon compass diamonds.

Ked. With both those tube preamps, its does not surprise me. To get that tube magic in preamps, you really need to use good ones

 

[PeterA]

I am finding success by matching electronic components (phono, preamp, amps) from the same manufacturer. Because that manufacturer does not use tubes in any of their components, that option is not available to me. I know that some manufacturers design hybrid SS/tube designs and that would be one way to go. In my case, my speaker choices have steered me toward SS, so that requirement drives the choices for rest of the electronic chain. I have not experimented enough with mixing and matching brands to really know if there are advantages to that approach.

I recently heard a system in which the owner is using both a SS preamp and a tube preamp, a SS phono, and tube mono blocks. Switching back and forth between the two preamps revealed that each preamp has its own straights and weaknesses. One combination is SS to SS to tube, the other is SS to tube to tube. I found that which combination sounds better to me seems completely dependent on what attributes I happen to value when listening to a particular recording. If it was classical, I preferred the more dynamic, clean sounding SS preamp. With more intimate, small scale, solo or voice performances, I tended to prefer the tube preamp. This approach seems to appeal to those who want to hear different flavors depending on mood and recordings.

 

[bonzo75]

Since when did you start referring to Ian as "the owner"

 

[Steve Williams]

plus 1.

for me (And I am all tube system) if I were limited to one tube in the system and I have multiple sources there is 100 % certainty that in my system it would go in the preamp as all source signals get the advantage of seeing that tube . It's fairly straightforward IMHO

 

[DaveyF]

for me (And I am all tube system) if I were limited to one tube in the system and I have multiple sources there is 100 % certainty that in my system it would go in the preamp as all source signals get the advantage of seeing that tube . It's fairly straightforward IMHO

+1

IME, tubes in the preamp make the biggest difference...and the type of tube, along with the manufacturer..can make an even more profound difference. Which is why I always recommend tube rolling to anyone with a tube preamp...and a tube amp...but the differences with a tube amp are, again imo, less profound.

 

[KeithR]

for me (And I am all tube system) if I were limited to one tube in the system and I have multiple sources there is 100 % certainty that in my system it would go in the preamp as all source signals get the advantage of seeing that tube . It's fairly straightforward IMHO

you could say the same thing about the amp...

 

[rblnr]

For me it's the preamp, though a pure tube amp can have more effect on the sound. My first tube preamp was a Melos SHA-Gold back in my youth; it really opened my eyes and I've had tubes somewhere or everywhere in the chain since.

 

[still-one]

I believe they should always be placed in someone else's system.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Ron,

Interesting question and I have had systems with all 3 combinations. I have netted out at the point where I think they are needed everywhere lol. It is somewhat speaker dependent though but I could not countenance using them throughout with my horns.

 

[Steve Williams]

I have netted out at the point where I think they are needed everywhere

Gotta love your moxie

 

[marty]

linestage is my vote

+1

 

[bazelio]

best spot for tubes?

"in the attic in a box from back when you had Tenor OTL's."

just forgot to throw them out.....

sorry Ron, could not resist.

There are actually several great spots for tubes. They include: museums, Ebay ads, and grandparents' basements. If I am ambushed and forced to have them in a hifi audio chain, it would be in the final stage (the amp) - preferably a hybrid design with helper transistors. That'd theoretically be the least damaging, give hope for having some damping factor, and allow for the entire front end of the chain to be clean and articulate.

 

[Gregadd]

for me (And I am all tube system) if I were limited to one tube in the system and I have multiple sources there is 100 % certainty that in my system it would go in the preamp as all source signals get the advantage of seeing that tube . It's fairly straightforward IMHO

I can't imagine your system without, IIRC, those G7 tubes.


EDIT:

 

[Empirical Audio]

Line stage if you use one. I don't use any kind of preamp, so no tubes there.

Next would be DAC output stage.

Finally amplifiers, but only if you have high-efficiency speakers like I do (93dB)

Like SS designs, tube designs are not all equal, so look for designers that eliminate capacitive coupling or install high-end caps, use good iron and know something about power delivery and decoupling. Many tubes designs have little or no power decoupling caps. Not a good thing.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Gregadd]

Conventional audio doctrine is tubes are best for small signal amplification. Then again I got great results with a ARC Sp14(Modified by GNS) and the Moscode 402AU(analog and digital).

 

[microstrip]

IMHO the question is too complex, as it implies considerations of value for money and total budget. Usually tube equipment represent better value for money than SS in terms of sound quality, at the expense of convenience.

If optimization of budget is not an issue I prefer to go either with all SS or all tube, preferably of the same brand. And the answer will always be very dependent on speakers and source.

 

[Al M.]

IMHO the question is too complex, as it implies considerations of value for money and total budget. Usually tube equipment represent better value for money than SS in terms of sound quality, at the expense of convenience.

If optimization of budget is not an issue I prefer to go either with all SS or all tube, preferably of the same brand. And the answer will always be very dependent on speakers and source.

Yes, for me it was a practical and a budget issue. I don't need an active gain preamp, a buffered no-gain preamp was sufficient, and for a relatively low amount of money I got one of excellent transparency (Pass B1), which happens to be solid state. If money were not an issue I could perfectly imagine going with solid-state Spectral preamp/amp (love the brand) but then I would also have to go with Spectral/MIT cables, which are its own expense. For me the best solution was a high quality tube amp, also since my speakers are not demanding in terms of load. And I had the opportunity from Goodwin's High End to audition it at home, a must for me when it comes to amplifiers.

So that's how I ended up with tubes in my power amp (Octave RE 320), an amp that I am incredibly thrilled with. I am not dogmatically wedded to a tube power amp, but it just happened to be the best solution for me.

 

[Al M.]

I should add that an Octave HP700 preamp (also tubed, same brand as power amp) is something I may consider at a later time, but it remains to be seen if in my system configuration it would add anything to the already great dynamics and energy, and if it would not subtract from transparency and resolution. If the answer to all this will turn out to be affirmative, then it may well be a go.