In search of my last great loudspeaker
- Thread starter marty
- Start date
15 hz - 23 khz rather optimistic 
, you also have a 15 db upswing from 1,5 khz to 5 khz , not exactly neutral , but at least this air plug manufacturer shows numbers .
I ve seen speakermanufacturers with something like that , kaiser kawero chiara iirc
that was 10 db
https://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/chiara/lautsprecherjahrbuch-2014-chiara.pdf
I must say they dont skip on X over( pricey) components , duelund duelund ....
, you also have a 15 db upswing from 1,5 khz to 5 khz , not exactly neutral , but at least this air plug manufacturer shows numbers .I ve seen speakermanufacturers with something like that , kaiser kawero chiara iirc
that was 10 db
https://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/chiara/lautsprecherjahrbuch-2014-chiara.pdf
I must say they dont skip on X over( pricey) components , duelund duelund ....
First, so-called "pure" titanium is not stronger than steel by any stretch of the imagination. Titanium alloys are stronger than most steels are, but not pure titanium. In fact titanium grades 1,2,3 are weaker. Grade 4 equals some steels, but the main benefit of titanium ALLOYS over steel is its strength to weight ratio.
Discussing which metal, beryllium, titanium or other metal is better because of their hardness or ultimate tensile strength is kind of silly when it comes to what tweeter sounds better because many top of the line tweeters are silk, and we all know how soft silk is. What makes a good tweeter is how it is designed, not so much what it is made of.
Furthermore, the ultimate tensile strength is NOT an important characteristic of a metal in designing ANYTHING. That just tells you when the metal breaks. The YIELD strength is a much more important characteristic when designing something because that tells you when something starts undergoing elastic bending/deformation and the 0.2% OFFSET on a stress/strain curve tells you when plastic bending/deformation occurs and the material does not return to its original shape. Once something undergoes plastic deformation, it has failed. Ultimate tensile strength is way beyond the initiation of plastic deformation on the curve, hence its lack of value in design characteristics.
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Well i said i was looking into metals since when is thinking about something silly , Being light and stiff is off course the reason metals like beryllium and titanium are chosen , if you wanna design one from steel Go ahead i should say.
I ve used the stiffest myself industrial diamond ,AM using softdomes these days
I ve used the stiffest myself industrial diamond ,AM using softdomes these days
It's a work in progress, that's about all I can say. Coming from a dsp system to one that is at the mercy of speaker voicing by the manufacturer combined with it's in-room behavior will always put one at a disadvantage to dial-in the frequency response of choice. I would say the system is satisfying, but I still have work to do, although my options are being reduced by the week. Don't get me wrong. It's quite good but unfortunately, I'm probably unrealistic about significant further refinements. That won't stop me from trying to make it better however. It's always best to just let it go and enjoy the music while putting the hobby on the back burner for a while. But sometimes that is easier said than done.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Don't get discouraged, Marty. If anyone can unlock the X2's "code," it surely is you!
+1!
Don't get discouraged, Marty. If anyone can unlock the X2's "code," it surely is you!
Hundreds of people did it. I owned them for some time, and knew what to change in my system to optimize them for my preferences. But things went another way - sometimes it is easier to change 600 kg than 60 kg!
Unfortunately, with the numerous variables with the Wilsons, that is both a curse and a blessing. It means you can literally tailor the sound to your own tastes...nearly as much as you want. But it also means that you can 'always improve' the speaker...a 0.7db boost in the treble response by changing the resistor...moving the midrange module 1/8th inch forward changes the soundstage.
We moved our midrange module 3/16th of an inch or something and the midrange string notes got denser, but at the expense of openness/air around the strings. We moved it back by 3/16th of an inch.
As for 'code', since every room is different, there is no formula even to try to get the original 'house sound', let alone the listener's actual preferred sound.
Marty,
How are things with the Wilson's at this point ? Any changes in setup off spec ?
When you leveled your bass cabinets, did you have them perfectly level from front to back or did you raise the back a wee bit ?
Thanks.
How are things with the Wilson's at this point ? Any changes in setup off spec ?
When you leveled your bass cabinets, did you have them perfectly level from front to back or did you raise the back a wee bit ?
Thanks.
Christian,
Still a work in progress. The Wilson's are set perfectly flat front to back w spikes into a concrete floor under the carpet. The past month or two has been mainly an exercise in tube rolling in the VTL 7.5 III preamp which uses a single pair of 12AU7s. I've methodically gone through many of the great NOS tubes that are out there: Telefunken's (mid 60's smooth plate, 1956 military long box plates, the revered 802s), Philips/Amperex (12AU7 Bugle Boys, 7316) Mullard (military CV4003, plain 12AU7, CV491 and last but my favorites of all, NOS Mullard long plate with "D" (or "square") getters from Blackburn circa late 50's (truly outstanding). It's amazing how different they all are. It's really like trying different preamps. Or more accurately, a voicing exercise since there is no perfect tube of course. What sounds best in one system may not be everyone's cup of tea since system fit and compatibility is what will determine preference more than any "absolute" performance metric. This tube exercise followed a 3 month exercise in power cables and AC receptacles with various metals and plating which I hope to write about eventually. And remarkably, I've even got some time in there listening to music
.Then again, tonight was Michael Feinstein singing the music of Mel Torme at Jazz at Lincoln Center with a 14 piece big band. Good thing I'm staying in the the city again tonight or I would have gone home and thrown out the system. (PS- I say this tongue-in-cheek every time I hear a great live performance.). Bottom line, the Wilson's are becoming more formidable with time. But there's more voicing yet in store.....
Christian,
Still a work in progress. The Wilson's are set perfectly flat front to back w spikes into a concrete floor under the carpet. The past month or two has been mainly an exercise in tube rolling in the VTL 7.5 III preamp which uses a single pair of 12AU7s. I've methodically gone through many of the great NOS tubes that are out there: Telefunken's (mid 60's smooth plate, 1956 military long box plates, the revered 802s), Philips/Amperex (12AU7 Bugle Boys, 7316) Mullard (military CV4003, plain 12AU7, CV491 and last but my favorites of all, NOS Mullard long plate with "D" (or "square") getters from Blackburn circa late 50's (truly outstanding). It's amazing how different they all are. It's really like trying different preamps. Or more accurately, a voicing exercise since there is no perfect tube of course. What sounds best in one system may not be everyone's cup of tea since system fit and compatibility is what will determine preference more than any "absolute" performance metric. This tube exercise followed a 3 month exercise in power cables and AC receptacles with various metals and plating which I hope to write about eventually. And remarkably, I've even got some time in there listening to music
Then again, tonight was Michael Feinstein singing the music of Mel Torme at Jazz at Lincoln Center with a 14 piece big band. Good thing I'm staying in the the city again tonight or I would have gone home and thrown out the system. (PS- I say this tongue-in-cheek every time I hear a great live performance.). Bottom line, the Wilson's are becoming more formidable with time. But there's more voicing yet in store.....
Thanks for the update Marty. It has taken me quite a while to dial the speakers in. I'm finally there. I went through a long exercise swapping out tube rectifiers for my Allnic Phono...over a year process of trying many different tube types and brands until I found my favorite...WE 422A from the 1950's. They happen to be the most expensive tubes too. I am at the point now that I no longer need to screw around with equipment/cables or tweaks. It's all about the music....refreshing !!!
I am at the point now that I no longer need to screw around with equipment/cables or tweaks.
I'm jealous. Audio nirvana! So close, yet so far away.
I have had my Wilson's for over 4 years now. I am embarrassed to say I relied on tape measures to position the speakers. They never were just exactly right in terms of toe and distance which affected imaging. I used lasers earlier this past winter to get everything exactly right and it made all the difference in the world for imaging and overall performance/enjoyment of the speakers..
Hi End audio always seems like work in process....
Hi Marty...as promised, i came searching to see if any updates on your system. Nearly a year! What is new in your world of perfecting the art of the setup? Thanks for any updates when you get a moment. Particularly interested in:
- what is now officially in your system? X2, VTL 7.5MkIII, JL Gothams as well still?
- how is the set up with your X2s and Gothams? Any basic specs on how you did this? Cut off, frequency, etc? Curious even though every room is different.
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