In wall cables for EU 230V circuit

[Kingrex]

2.5mm is 10 awg. At 230 volt similar to 8 awg I don't see anything to do outside trying to get solid pulled.

I might even entertain using 2.05 (12 awg) in a solid if they won't pull a 2.5 as solid. But now your venturing into a possible give and take.

I think anything you do with the wires in the pvc will be subtle.

If I had ,$$$ to burn, I'm harping here. A battery and 2000 watt Exeltech with a cord hardwired to the Exeltech and plugged into the Puritan feeding the front end would be very audible. More quiet, clean an expressive. I bet it would rock the Power Zone to MSB amp too.
But for sure it would lift the front end on a Puritan. Thats the only power mod I see. Otherwse your set up well.

 

[Kingrex]

Owe yea. Make sure every comb bus and every terminal bar is copper in all your panels. No aluminum. Swap it out to copper.

 

[Kingrex]

And if they will let you replace the branch breaker with a fuse, try it. Get a good audio grade cartridge and fuse. Try better than busman. Can be very audible. I'm not sure if its color, but you can hear it.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thanks, Kingrex.

They are 2.5 mm2 (13 AWG), i’d need 4 mm2 or 6 mm2 to raise around 10AWG or even more.

The 5 Circuit breakers in the panel are, by code, magneto-thermal (what usually used in Italy): pic during installation before completing the job with earth and discharger.

BTDIN45 - Rcbo 1P+N - type AC - In= 16A - Icn= 4,5kA - Vn=230Vac - Idn= 30mA | GA8813AC16 | BTicino International Product Catalogue

BTDIN45 - thermal-magnetic with earth leakage protection 1P+N - type AC - In= 16A - Icn= 4,5kA - Vn=230 Vac - Idn= 30mA - 2 modules

catalogue.bticino.com

 

[DasguteOhr]

Thanks, Kingrex.

They are 2.5 mm2 (13 AWG), i’d need 4 mm2 or 6 mm2 to raise around 10AWG or even more.

The 5 Circuit breakers in the panel are, by code, magneto-thermal (what usually used in Italy): pic during installation before completing the job with earth and discharger.

BTDIN45 - Rcbo 1P+N - type AC - In= 16A - Icn= 4,5kA - Vn=230Vac - Idn= 30mA | GA8813AC16 | BTicino International Product Catalogue

BTDIN45 - thermal-magnetic with earth leakage protection 1P+N - type AC - In= 16A - Icn= 4,5kA - Vn=230 Vac - Idn= 30mA - 2 modules

catalogue.bticino.com

View attachment 139541

The residual current circuit breaker will not work like this. You need three-core wiring (phase black, neutral conductor blue and PE green-yellow. After the residual current circuit breaker, I would only switch single-pole with an AHP module. This has the advantage of no magnetic eddy current.
Ahp modul

In order for a residual current device to trip in the event of a fault, you need a proper earthing. The residual current device measures the current that flows in and that flows back. If a device is defective and there is voltage on the housing that you can touch, then a current flows through your body. The residual current device detects the difference between the input current and the return current and switches off to protect your life. In your case, the current is greater than 30mA.

example for correct wiring the supply line to the residual current device should be at least 6 square mm.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thanks, a earth wire is connected of course (from each socket and from the dedicated panel and main panel of the house to the general external rod). The job was done and certified by a professional electrician and this is the normal practice in Italy, where fuse circuit breakers are not usually used and we use mono-phase inside residential circuits. A protection is also present (installed by the service provider) at the external of the house (or in a designated room inside condos).

 

[Kingrex]

Thanks, Kingrex.

They are 2.5 mm2 (13 AWG), i’d need 4 mm2 or 6 mm2 to raise around 10AWG or even more.

The 5 Circuit breakers in the panel are, by code, magneto-thermal (what usually used in Italy): pic during installation before completing the job with earth and discharger.

BTDIN45 - Rcbo 1P+N - type AC - In= 16A - Icn= 4,5kA - Vn=230Vac - Idn= 30mA | GA8813AC16 | BTicino International Product Catalogue

BTDIN45 - thermal-magnetic with earth leakage protection 1P+N - type AC - In= 16A - Icn= 4,5kA - Vn=230 Vac - Idn= 30mA - 2 modules

catalogue.bticino.com

View attachment 139541

Try for a little larger in solid if possible. Solid vs stranded is what will voice more.

 

[mtemur]

Replacing circuit breaker with an audiophile fuse is the worst thing you can do. The real audiophile thing here is circuit breaker (Gigawatt, Siemens or other high quality copper) and AHP is trash. Because circuit breaker makes good contact contrary of thin wire inside audiophile fuse. I know it cause I had them all, I used them all, tried many times and what I said is final. Whoever says otherwise is completely wrong, there is no other option. I wish there would be circuit breakers inside components that works with low amperage instead of fuses. Gigawatt web page contains explanation about it. BTW my findings and comments are not based on Gigawatt’s and has happened long before that.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Replacing circuit breaker with an audiophile fuse is the worst thing you can do. The real audiophile thing here is circuit breaker (Gigawatt, Siemens or other high quality copper) and AHP is trash. Because circuit breaker makes good contact contrary of thin wire inside audiophile fuse. I know it cause I had them all, I used them all, tried many times and what I said is final. Whoever says otherwise is completely wrong, there is no other option. I wish there would be circuit breakers inside components that works with low amperage instead of fuses. Gigawatt web page contains explanation about it. BTW my findings and comments are not based on Gigawatt’s and has happened long before that.

You should read first before you write nonsense. The wire is just as thick as a diazed or neozed standard fuse. The fuse is almost 2.5 times larger (14x51mm) than a standard 5x20mm fuse. It can handle a higher load than a B 16A circuit breaker (3 times the starting current characteristic) because the magnetic reactive current from the circuit breaker is not present.

 

[mtemur]

You should read first before you write nonsense. The wire is just as thick as a diazed or neozed standard fuse. The fuse is almost 2.5 times larger (14x51mm) than a standard 5x20mm fuse. It can handle a higher load than a B 16A circuit breaker (3 times the starting current characteristic) because the magnetic reactive current from the circuit breaker is not present.View attachment 139566

I took the time to research, read, and test thoroughly, and I strongly recommend you do the same before jumping to conclusions. Your response seems to assume I was comparing an audiophile fuse to a standard or 16A cb, but that wasn’t the case. I was actually comparing an audiophile fuse to a circuit breaker of the same rating. The key difference lies in the circuit breaker’s large copper contacts, which maintain constant contact, versus the thin wire used in an audiophile fuse. Here’s an example of one of my audiophile fuses:



Here is a simple circuit breaker with copper contacts and connecttions:


If AHP and audiophile fuses were genuinely better, they would already be part of my setup. But instead, I have a regular Siemens circuit breaker installed. I’ve tested AHP fuses on other setups, and some of my friends have tried them as well. Simply put, AHP is trash. Period.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I took the time to research, read, and test thoroughly, and I strongly recommend you do the same before jumping to conclusions. Your response seems to assume I was comparing an audiophile fuse to a standard or 16A cb, but that wasn’t the case. I was actually comparing an audiophile fuse to a circuit breaker of the same rating. The key difference lies in the circuit breaker’s large copper contacts, which maintain constant contact, versus the thin wire used in an audiophile fuse. Here’s an example of one of my audiophile fuses:

View attachment 139567View attachment 139568

Here is a simple circuit breaker with copper contacts and connecttions:
View attachment 139573View attachment 139575

If AHP and audiophile fuses were genuinely better, they would already be part of my setup. But instead, I have a regular Siemens circuit breaker installed. I’ve tested AHP fuses on other setups, and some of my friends have tried them as well. Simply put, AHP is trash. Period.

It doesn't matter how big the connection terminal is, the actual internal switching contact is no bigger than that of a fuse. This is the bottleneck of both systems. With the circut breaker, the current flows through the iron core coil. With a large load, inductance occurs. Active current + reactive current add up.

 

[mtemur]

It doesn't matter how big the connection terminal is, the actual internal switching contact is no bigger than that of a fuse. This is the bottleneck of both systems. With the circut breaker, the current flows through the iron core coil. With a large load, inductance occurs. Active current + reactive current add up.


View attachment 139577

Once again, it seems you’ve misunderstood my point. I wasn’t referring to the size of the connection terminals. The contact size in a fuse is irrelevant because the thin wire inside the fuse creates a bottleneck. In contrast, a circuit breaker doesn’t have this issue; it has no thin wire inside, allowing current to flow over much larger contacts. These contacts are significantly larger than the thin wire inside a fuse. It’s all about that thin wire in the fuse—again, the thin wire, the thin wire, the thin wire...

 

[DasguteOhr]

Once again, it seems you’ve misunderstood my point. I wasn’t referring to the size of the connection terminals. The contact size in a fuse is irrelevant because the thin wire inside the fuse creates a bottleneck. In contrast, a circuit breaker doesn’t have this issue; it has no thin wire inside, allowing current to flow over much larger contacts. These contacts are significantly larger than the thin wire inside a fuse. It’s all about that thin wire in the fuse—again, the thin wire, the thin wire, the thin wire...

once again, the switching contact surface of a circuit breaker is not larger. We once had to dismantle a circuit breaker in vocational school. I am a trained electrician and my training lasted three and a half years before I became a journeyman.
You can believe me or not.

 

[mtemur]

once again, the switching contact surface of a circuit breaker is not larger. We once had to dismantle a circuit breaker in vocational school. I am a trained electrician and my training lasted three and a half years before I became a journeyman.
You can believe me or not.

I give up.

 

[Johan K]

Replacing circuit breaker with an audiophile fuse is the worst thing you can do. The real audiophile thing here is circuit breaker (Gigawatt, Siemens or other high quality copper) and AHP is trash. Because circuit breaker makes good contact contrary of thin wire inside audiophile fuse. I know it cause I had them all, I used them all, tried many times and what I said is final. Whoever says otherwise is completely wrong, there is no other option. I wish there would be circuit breakers inside components that works with low amperage instead of fuses. Gigawatt web page contains explanation about it. BTW my findings and comments are not based on Gigawatt’s and has happened long before that.

Hi @mtemur ,

I have to say I disagree with you here. I have had the most serious issues on my incoming power line for years, and trying to solve it for equal amount of years. This last spring and early summer, i did a very big rebuild, and upgrade to the incoming power to the house, but also to my audioroom. I have been using regular melting fuses on the incoming three main fuses, then automatic fuses/breakers in the main panel, and also in my sub-panel in the audioroom.. After the rebuild, and upgrade I use oversized AHP fuses on the incoming three main fuses, then four oversized AHP breakers and copper fuses in the sub-panel in the audioroom… I must say I am overwhelmed about result. To give a perspective of what is going on, I can say this: After the installation I have been forced to lower my subwoofers output level FIVE different times (in five different steps) due to the sheer power now entering my subwoofers amplifiers, just to match my front speakers. There is a lot more punch in the whole system, and there is an ease to it like never before.

Best part of everything is I was also somehow able to solve all the incoming issues, like hum, buzzing, and transformer stress due to many different factors. At this point, my system is dead quiet, and I have no power conditioners (no need to), no extra grounding boxes (no need to) as everything related to ground is busbar-connected to equal out any differences, then an oversized line to ground.

The approach is more of a TopFuel - full - pull - approach without any restrictions, and it has worked out VERY well at my place. Can’t see anything topping this at this point, and I’ve tried almost every power conditioner and grounding boxes on the market without any result to speak of…

Sooo I guess I am happy… YMMV..

Kindest regards

/ Jk

 

[DasguteOhr]

I give up.

Ok.. a last pic contact surface i say good bye here

 

[Johan K]

I give up.

Don’t - really like your inputs, but disagree with you on this one..

Chin up man !!

/ Jk

 

[Johan K]

I took the time to research, read, and test thoroughly, and I strongly recommend you do the same before jumping to conclusions. Your response seems to assume I was comparing an audiophile fuse to a standard or 16A cb, but that wasn’t the case. I was actually comparing an audiophile fuse to a circuit breaker of the same rating. The key difference lies in the circuit breaker’s large copper contacts, which maintain constant contact, versus the thin wire used in an audiophile fuse. Here’s an example of one of my audiophile fuses:

View attachment 139567View attachment 139568

Here is a simple circuit breaker with copper contacts and connecttions:
View attachment 139573View attachment 139575

If AHP and audiophile fuses were genuinely better, they would already be part of my setup. But instead, I have a regular Siemens circuit breaker installed. I’ve tested AHP fuses on other setups, and some of my friends have tried them as well. Simply put, AHP is trash. Period.

Could not disagree more, sorry to say!

/ Jk

 

[Dibus48]

I’m evaluating an upgrade to be realized next spring along with a “light refurbishment” of my room (again).

I have 5 dedicated lines from a dedicated panel that run separately to 5 Furutech SWS NCF wall sockets. Currently I’m using common 2,5 mm2 wires, phase neutral earth each, at least common here in Italy I mean.

Having 220V electricity the AWG required might be different than typical 10 AWG used in 120V systems, that general consensus in audiophile world seems to agree as the best solution.
Solid is not an option, then only stranded copper is doable due to the size and shape of conduits.

The maximum diameter should be 1,2-1,3 mm, shielding included for each cable, otherwise I have to limit to maximum 2 dedicated lines (it would imply a few sockets connected in parallel from the same line).

A dealer offered me these ones:

Rubber Sleeve Cable Titanex ®; 3 x 2.50 mm²; rubber, Ø 12,50 mm; black | 700-0101-0325TI

You won‘t make a mistake...if you go with the flow, for the H07RN-F rubber jacket lead is one of the best-selling cables on the world market. It can be used as a power line for audio components, spotlights and heavy machinery (mechanical engineering) and…

www.sommercable.com

SUPRA LoRad 3x2.5 SPC (Silver Plated Copper)FULLY SHIELDED POWER CABLE

CABLE ONLY -DIY Supra LoRad SPC - Silver Plated Copper mains flex 40TH Anniversary cable! HiFI Choice Recommended April 2017 We proudly present a brand new LoRad mains flex version comprising Silver Plated Copper strands for dramatically improved conductivity properties in addition to the Supra...

supracables.co.nz

While an audiophile friend suggested me this one:

Alpha Nano-Ag-Au Power Cable FP-S032N & FP-S35N | FURUTECH

Note* FP-S35N & FP-S032N have the same specifications <br /> Voltage rating: 20A 125V / 16A 250V

www.furutech.com

Any European tech guy/electrical expert can give me some suggestions?

Any member here who can share some experience with 220V in wall audiophile cables?

TIA

Supra Silver Anniversary: sounds great, 29 euros per meter by the meter. With Oyaide C079 plugs it comes menacingly close to my Kondo Persimmon cable for 1200 euros at 1.8 meters. A price-performance winner!

 

[Dibus48]

Than you have no option. Stick to the original cable inside the wall it’s certainly a solid core.


Many people use rhodium-plated plugs and receptacles, thinking they sound good, but they really don’t. I switched to US (Japanese) type plugs and receptacles and stopped using Schuko a long time ago. I prefer unplated, pure copper plugs and receptacles. Unfortunately, options are limited with Schuko. Brands like Oyaide, Furutech, Synergistic Research, and Hubbell offer great alternatives, as long as you avoid rhodium and focus on the simpler options like copper or brass. If you go with a plated option, I find Oyaide’s palladium plating the most natural (or least harmful) sounding. In my experience, most other platings—especially Furutech’s rhodium—sound terrible. Furutech’s plating is particularly poor, both in sound quality and durability, as it scratches easily.

Beste Oyaide-Power-Plugs: The Models C079, better than C046 and C037. I have all of them and compared then with the same AC-Cable Supra Silver 40th Anniversary.