Interesting Perspective on Our Hobby

[spiritofmusic]

Same here
Generally skeptics have been really wowed by my new room and sound
They've developed audiofool vocabulary within minutes, unprompted
But not many will go on to be that passionate about replay at home themselves
So, we have Top Gear w cars, Sideways film re wine tasting
I just can't imagine any media representation of our hobby

 

[soundArgument]

So, we have Top Gear w cars, Sideways film re wine tasting
I just can't imagine any media representation of our hobby

You should watch the Hong Kong classic Infernal Affairs . . .

 

[Diapason]

I think the "problem" that my friends have with the whole thing is the concept of sitting listening to music AND DOING NOTHING ELSE!?!?!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I still feel the lack of visualness really shortchanged this hobby in the media and w skeptics
That Infernal Affairs scene was great
But would it resonate w the non audiophile viewer as a subsequent scene involving car chases or restaraunts?
Prob not
You can SEE the exclusivity in performance cars, jewellery etc and immediately see their appeal
You certainly can't w audio
It's a REAL acquired taste, more than most pursuits
And that cannot readily be conveyed

 

[metaphacts]

..

Honestly, if I wasn't already in the club I don't know that I'd want to join.

There's KK's article in one sentence.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, I got into the hobby while there was some semblance of large numbers of people actually interested in music enough to spare the time to listen to it and spend at least some cash getting the most out of the hobby
W the I Pod/illegal download generation taking over, and audiophilia being restricted to fewer and fewer, it's certainly not the hobby it once was

 

[asiufy]

W the I Pod/illegal download generation taking over, and audiophilia being restricted to fewer and fewer, it's certainly not the hobby it once was

Well, I don't see the "iPod generation" being the problem, really... Matter of fact, what we got out of that was legal streaming services, the best of which, Tidal, is actually one of our hobby's great "selling points".

Sit people down in front of a good system with a streamer and an iPad, and let them play in Tidal. You'd be amazed and how engrossed they are by it. Have them then compare the sound quality to a Spotify stream, and they will immediately "get it".

The whole vinyl "ritual" thing is part and parcel for the perception of high-end audio as "weird" and "for acolytes only". Sure, younger folks are buying records and turntables, but they are throwaway $99 Crosleys or vintage crap that barely works.

 

[Folsom]

I think the "problem" that my friends have with the whole thing is the concept of sitting listening to music AND DOING NOTHING ELSE!?!?!

Yes, that's HARD for the modern person.

But I enjoy my system an awful lot while I'm doing other things in the house. Sometimes I put something on and sit in another room. But at night I do enjoy taking it in while doing nothing else. In fact I can feel stress leave my body when I force myself to do literally nothing but listen.

The aspect of dedicating a room is at least as challenging for most people as sitting to only listen. Even when you can integrate a system into a living room without compromises to audio, like Madfloyd's, it bothers people. They want it all to be small and hidden basically besides the TT.

So from their perspective why would they spend a hell of a lot of money to be inconvenienced as much as possible? It's a hurdle for people that have never learned that life is more than just black and white, simple and boring. You're probably onto something, where the price is a bigger struggle because of how the hobby is seen, rather than just a dollar figure.

 

[PeterA]

The whole vinyl "ritual" thing is part and parcel for the perception of high-end audio as "weird" and "for acolytes only". Sure, younger folks are buying records and turntables, but they are throwaway $99 Crosleys or vintage crap that barely works.

My non audio friends see my turntable and watch me put on an LP for them to listen to and they hardly think it is "weird". Nostalgic perhaps, but they kind of like it and thinks it sounds excellent. Do waterskiers and jetskiers think sailboats are "weird".

 

[asiufy]

I meant something along the "non-approachable" way. If the intention is to bring people closer to the hobby, an iPad+streamer will win every time, and I'm not talking about absolute SQ here, just "approachability".

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of fascination for LPs and turntables (you should see the look on people's faces when they first see the Kronos, for instance), but I'm just saying that stuff is NOT going to bring in more people to the hobby, or paint a nicer, friendlier picture of it. And I do love my 3000+ LPs, BTW...

 

[soundArgument]

I'm sympathetic to some of Mr. Kessler's complaints, particularly about the ludicrous audio cable sub-industry. However, it's revealing that his essay does not mention the reason that I am in this hobby, which is the music.* Like HP and many others of us who have been in this hobby, I want the concert experience at home.

Despite being busy at work, I flew to Vienna with my fiancée on Saturday night to hear the Vienna Philharmonic, led by Herbert Blomstedt, perform Mozart and Bruckner at the Musikverein on Sunday morning. My system is not capable of conveying what I heard on Sunday, but, when I no longer have to live in an apartment close to my office in central London, I'll be able to assemble a system that can get me very close to the sublime, transcendent concert experience.

Most people don't share my passion, and that's fine. I don't care about prestige, Veblen goods, etc. That I went to Vienna for less than a day to hear a concert is a secret to everyone other than my fiancée, some close relatives, and those of you reading it here. I'm not interested in impressing anyone.

With apologies to Mr. Kessler, owning a Rolex, a Vacheron Constantin, or, God help us, a Breitling does not indicate a refined aesthetic sensibility. If anything, it indicates a strong sensitivity to vulgar advertisements featuring George Clooney and Hugh Jackman, or a misplaced obsession with imitating Steve McQueen.

A few high-end audio companies, particularly the McIntosh group of brands, are trying to establish high-end audio products as conventional, mainstream positional goods. Mr. Kessler seems to desire this trajectory for the entire industry. (Perhaps he, as an audio reviewer, wants the same kind of recognition that the hipster fellow who started a pompous luxury wristwatch blog has gotten.) Sadly, turning high-end audio devices into positional goods has nothing to do with bringing the listener closer to the experience of a real performance.

In this hobby, there are those of us who care about the music and those of us who want high-end audio to be another venue for signaling status. I hope to stay exclusively in the former camp.

* I've read a few of Kessler's columns over the years. If I were to judge by the records that I have seen him mention, I would guess that he does not have a very serious interest in music.

 

[x1992]

Three things that don't help
1-the non sexy nature of this hobby
Ask any non audiophile and his or esp her view of us is a sad bunch of faintly unhealthy obsessives who sit in our own in the dark (guilty as charged!)
2-the lack of visuals/pizazz in this hobby
Cars, architecture, watches, shoes, jewellery, designer clothes, wine, good food
All this stuff has a visual/textural quality that immed portrays its cultural significance and is desirable by definition
3-the language we all use
When we talk about spending $00s-00000s to gain what outsiders view as OCD incremental impvts in attributes that can't be easily explained to outsiders like transparency or texture, we're roundly criticised

In a parallel universe, where the great and the good, and the rest of the population all listened more to music at home than on the go as a throwaway hobby
If the world hadn't moved on from tts, tube amps, big horns, I suspect the convergence of visual and tactile desirability of gear w a true cultural love for music and audiophilia might have meant our hobby did not get its undeserved label of sad and irrelevant

Totally. When I read the article, I thought one difference between audio and other luxury items was that audio does not impress women. Its too geeky. I do not know people with TONS of money, but I do a lot of well-off folks. For many of them Bose and B&O are the Rolex brands of audio. A lot of audio manufacturers could take ownership in improving marketing, but I'm sure its hard.

 

[spiritofmusic]

soundArgument, that sounds like it was a great experience and a lovely present for yr fiancé
My guess is those into "sexier" hobbies like a quick skiing trip to Val d'Isere or shopping expedition in Dubai might get that
But prob not gel w other aspects of our mutual hobby
Again a beautiful concert hall w top classical or opera has a visual quality as much as auditory and is easier to convey as a luxury pursuit worth following to someone wishing to convinced
The solitary aspect of the audiophile can never be conveyed positively
Of course once a person "gets it"...

 

[spiritofmusic]

X1992, geeky certainly is a word to describe our hobby, and it's a hard one to shake off
I do love the occasions where previous hard nosed skeptics of the money I've spent and the energy I've expended constructing a system hear the results and have that jaw dropping moment decrying what they're missing out on
One of the biggest crying shames in our hobby is how ludicrous many people feel top audio reproduction is, but have no issues w putting together a top home cinema
Ironic
Often involves said individuals sitting in a dark room etc

 

[marslo]

soundArgument, that sounds like it was a great experience and a lovely present for yr fiancé
My guess is those into "sexier" hobbies like a quick skiing trip to Val d'Isere or shopping expedition in Dubai might get that
But prob not gel w other aspects of our mutual hobby
Again a beautiful concert hall w top classical or opera has a visual quality as much as auditory and is easier to convey as a luxury pursuit worth following to someone wishing to convinced
The solitary aspect of the audiophile can never be conveyed positively
Of course once a person "gets it"...

Sorry SoM but soundArgument flew to Vienna with his fiancée not fiancé
AS far as our hobby and money is concerned it's sad that very often marketing is winning with engineering.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Fiancé or fiancée, I'm sure she had a great time LOL

 

[bonzo75]

Despite being busy at work, I flew to Vienna with my fiancée on Saturday night to hear the Vienna Philharmonic, led by Herbert Blomstedt, perform Mozart and Bruckner at the Musikverein on Sunday morning. My system is not capable of conveying what I heard on Sunday, but, when I no longer have to live in an apartment close to my office in central London, I'll be able to assemble a system that can get me very close to the sublime, transcendent concert experience.

I have flown to Zurich (Operahaus) and Concertgebouw (twice), but not Vienna. Would love to one day. But from London, my favorites so far are Sheldonian in Oxford, and the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester (where I have been only once, maybe had a lucky concert).

But I agree, audio is not to impress others, except maybe other audiophiles for some, but for many it is primarily a geeky hobby. The "what would happen if I did this instead of this" gets the better of everyone

 

[spiritofmusic]

I read a report that music buying was at it's very pinnacle in '73
$tens of billions (in 70s money terms) spent on lps, tapes and concerts, more than sport, cinema and gambling combined
People really bought lps and would listen to them at home, all the way thru, often w friends and family
People actually met socially at record shops, and often met up w piles of lps under their arms
I can quite imagine had the cultural significance of this carried on to the present day, that high end audio might have caught on in the public consciousness more, and audiophilia wouldn't be such a marginalised pursuit
Imagine the past as future w style magazines and tv featuring tts, valve amps, reel to reel, w groups of listeners of all income groups in all kinds of houses describing their love of music, and how home audio has enhanced their lives
We've all seen those isolated style articles and images in media and films where even non audio people get taken away by brilliant iconic images of tts esp
What do we have today?
The BBC in its technology segment Click, decrying High Definition Audio as indistinguishable from mp3, and pretty much lampooning high end audio
No idea just how many potential people this would have put off
I don't see any other specialist hobby being derided as much as ours

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t see anyone deriding it. They find the geekiness weird and amusing. Think of it this way, we like it when our friends love food and restaurants, yet if somebody goes OCD about the exact brand of saffron that needs to go into a meal, or just how thick should the layer of butter be that you put on a granary bread with a fixed number of grains – now that would get downright irritating. To non-audiophiles, we do go OCD about our music, the way we talk about it, look at pics, etc. If we just had audio equipment set up that we listened to music whenever a non-audiophile came over, they probably wouldn’t mind, but the intensity of the OCD is what they find amusing and weird.

The other point is that many non-audiophiles doubt if they themselves can hear a difference between equipment, because many of them don’t care which 20 quid or 50 quid earphones they use. Nor do they care if they have LCD, HD, whatever

 

[spiritofmusic]

As usual Ked, I'll beg to differ
Tons of people watch MasterChef and chef-led cookery programmes, and the moment something like Salted Caramel or Spirallised Courgettes are mentioned, the country goes crazy and stocks sell out in 24 hrs
Tbh, these are specialist in cookery, but because food is essential AND visual AND aspirational, it is in the public consciousness both at Big Mac AND foodie levels
And so even the proletariat will strive for better food
Music and it's the many interested in it's reproduction? Other than a few 00k involved in our hobby, not at all