Introducing My System
- Thread starter Thundersnow
- Start date
Uros,
At first I thought- wow, this guy's an inspiration- one stereo rig for the summer and one for the winter. What a great idea! Now, I think its more like one gear change with every pick up at the dry cleaners! I love it! It puts the real meaning of hobby into the hobby! I'm confident you will find your sea of tranquility out there somewhere. In the interim, is your lovely wife dealing well with the interchangeable parts of the system?
Marty
At first I thought- wow, this guy's an inspiration- one stereo rig for the summer and one for the winter. What a great idea! Now, I think its more like one gear change with every pick up at the dry cleaners! I love it! It puts the real meaning of hobby into the hobby! I'm confident you will find your sea of tranquility out there somewhere. In the interim, is your lovely wife dealing well with the interchangeable parts of the system?
Marty
I used to have the Symbiosis SE with 4huge heat sink towers. That hybrid was a frustrating amp because it needed two full hours to sound really good…then it sounded bonkers good…and it got very hot.
Just fired up my new Aries Cerat Protos, which is at least a kindred spirit to your new NAT amps. Very pure sound…
Not surprising your conclusion regarding the Soulution.
Hey Marty, great to hear from ya! As well as she can I have to say! So far so good as far as the gear changes go, and for the rest of it, we’re hunting down amazing wines! Everything’s better that way
Thx! You will have to come hear it soon!Congrats on your new Protos
Ah, I remember now! I listened to Protos I believe at the Vienna High End show last year. They sounded superb to me. I remember thinking how much the electronics stood out in that room with a very soulful sound.
Will you be giving a more extended report on this amplifier? TriodeFet. Was there a volume control, since it is reported as integrated?
No doubt this hobby of ours is a "DISEASE"--LOL. BUT WHO CARES. AS LONG AS WE ALL HAVE OUR HEALTHThere should be an organization called "audiophiles anonymous" to treat OCD.
I hope you are having fun and enjoying the music. Best
AND LOVED ONES TO SHARE THE MUSIC WITH.....
exquisite, my friend
It seems you taking the results to your very best,
very impressive.
It seems you taking the results to your very best,
very impressive.
Yes, once I let it run in more and gather my thoughts on its performance. It has a ladder/relay resistor volume control.
You need to tell us more about these NATs! Are they similar to the Microwave monos, which are also some kind of compound single element, or are they a more conventional hybrid like my Symbiosis SE was (ok it was still single ended hybrid, which was pretty rare)?
Oh and btw, while we are on the subject of hifi, and being nutty about it -- let me add fuel to that fire and prove beyond any shadow of a doubt I need help.
So there is a method to my madness... or just madness in general. Either way.
I am building a second system borne out of (or mangled together depending on how romantic we want to get about this) my pure love of Apogee:
- Completely refurbished Apogee Duettas courtesy of Audioantiquary
- LDMS Server
- Lampizator Horizon
- Trafomatic Lara preamp
- Soulution 710
My active stereo 4-way system is also getting a major upgrade. A brainchild of mine (of sorts), an all in one device acting as an active crossover, streamer and preamp but with an 8 channel tube buffer twist (I can pick and choose the gain between Ecc82, 81 and 83s). The device which I'll name "Cortex" -- being the brains of the operation -- is a two box solution with two analogue linear power supplies (tube rectified) for the analogue part and a separate digital lps. It essentially is a minidsp device and a bluesound node packed into one audio chasis (and then a separate box for the psu), but we are completely bypassing the opamps in the minidsp and going directly to an 8 channel tube buffer stage. The volume is still being handled with DSP, although there may be plans to change that as well, but I'm comfortable with it right now.
Some pics, first of the painted Apogee frame and then of the "Cortex":
So there is a method to my madness... or just madness in general. Either way.
I am building a second system borne out of (or mangled together depending on how romantic we want to get about this) my pure love of Apogee:
- Completely refurbished Apogee Duettas courtesy of Audioantiquary
- LDMS Server
- Lampizator Horizon
- Trafomatic Lara preamp
- Soulution 710
My active stereo 4-way system is also getting a major upgrade. A brainchild of mine (of sorts), an all in one device acting as an active crossover, streamer and preamp but with an 8 channel tube buffer twist (I can pick and choose the gain between Ecc82, 81 and 83s). The device which I'll name "Cortex" -- being the brains of the operation -- is a two box solution with two analogue linear power supplies (tube rectified) for the analogue part and a separate digital lps. It essentially is a minidsp device and a bluesound node packed into one audio chasis (and then a separate box for the psu), but we are completely bypassing the opamps in the minidsp and going directly to an 8 channel tube buffer stage. The volume is still being handled with DSP, although there may be plans to change that as well, but I'm comfortable with it right now.
Some pics, first of the painted Apogee frame and then of the "Cortex":
Attachments
I thought you were using these amps:
www.nataudio.com
But from the photos it is something new not on NAT's website yet.
NAT - Innovative Audio Manufacture - Magneto
Magneto - Single Stage Single Ended Hybrid Mono Block Power Amplifier Magneto is an unique mono power (up to 100W) hybrid amplifier made by NAT, based...
www.nataudio.com
But from the photos it is something new not on NAT's website yet.
First pair of blocks - not on the website (yet)I thought you were using these amps:
NAT - Innovative Audio Manufacture - Magneto
Magneto - Single Stage Single Ended Hybrid Mono Block Power Amplifier Magneto is an unique mono power (up to 100W) hybrid amplifier made by NAT, based...
But from the photos it is something new not on NAT's website yet.
Correct, it's not yet available on the website, plus they are relaunching the website soon as well.I thought you were using these amps:
NAT - Innovative Audio Manufacture - Magneto
Magneto - Single Stage Single Ended Hybrid Mono Block Power Amplifier Magneto is an unique mono power (up to 100W) hybrid amplifier made by NAT, based...
But from the photos it is something new not on NAT's website yet.
Really enjoying this discussion as Nat Magma Ms are on order for my system.
So, in addition to now wondering about these NAT Symbiosis New - first I've heard of these, gotta ask Mike, I'm also a bit concerned/quesitoning the approach that Nat uses to bias and manage tube life in his amps.
To be specific, the Nat amps auto bias, which I imagine is a fine approach (I'm no electrical engineer so can't comment on the pros nor cons of auto biasing vs the simpler resister and manual adjust approach). However, per a rather extensive email exchange with Dejan and discussions with Mike, the Nat amps do not indicate when the tube can no longer be biased within the target range. Of "concern" is that Dejan says the amp will continue to operate when the tube can no longer be biased within the target range.
Unlike many other tube amp mfgrs, Nat does not provide a ready means for measuring the bias voltage, nor an idiot light (eg red led) indicating the tube needs to be replaced - think the oil low light in a car. Experience with many tubes over the years clearly demonstrates that tubes do indeed age out and good new tubes can be a rather pleasant surprise.
Dejan's response to my concerns is that (1) the tubes have a long life because the design does not work the tubes hard at all, and (2) worn out tubes sound like crap. Well, while both statements are true, my rebuttal is (1) most tubes have a long life, some don't, and (2) I don't want to wait until I realize the system is sounding like crap. Importantly, tube "wear" is gradual, it is not a binary affair (barring failure of course). So, like the frog in boiling water or tire wear on your car (yup, another automotive analogy) we, or at least me, get accustumed to the gradual performance decline until....
Given all the time and money and emotion in this nutty hobby, I'd much rather know the status of the tubes in play. A means to measure voltage or an idiot light would alleviate that nagging wonder if the tubes are toast.
So, while I remain quite excited to put the Magma M into my system, its also frustrating to now learn that there is literally no way to know if the Nat tubes are operating at optimum - I'm begining to quesiton my decision and call off the purchase.
Thoughts? What am I missing here?
So, in addition to now wondering about these NAT Symbiosis New - first I've heard of these, gotta ask Mike, I'm also a bit concerned/quesitoning the approach that Nat uses to bias and manage tube life in his amps.
To be specific, the Nat amps auto bias, which I imagine is a fine approach (I'm no electrical engineer so can't comment on the pros nor cons of auto biasing vs the simpler resister and manual adjust approach). However, per a rather extensive email exchange with Dejan and discussions with Mike, the Nat amps do not indicate when the tube can no longer be biased within the target range. Of "concern" is that Dejan says the amp will continue to operate when the tube can no longer be biased within the target range.
Unlike many other tube amp mfgrs, Nat does not provide a ready means for measuring the bias voltage, nor an idiot light (eg red led) indicating the tube needs to be replaced - think the oil low light in a car. Experience with many tubes over the years clearly demonstrates that tubes do indeed age out and good new tubes can be a rather pleasant surprise.
Dejan's response to my concerns is that (1) the tubes have a long life because the design does not work the tubes hard at all, and (2) worn out tubes sound like crap. Well, while both statements are true, my rebuttal is (1) most tubes have a long life, some don't, and (2) I don't want to wait until I realize the system is sounding like crap. Importantly, tube "wear" is gradual, it is not a binary affair (barring failure of course). So, like the frog in boiling water or tire wear on your car (yup, another automotive analogy) we, or at least me, get accustumed to the gradual performance decline until....
Given all the time and money and emotion in this nutty hobby, I'd much rather know the status of the tubes in play. A means to measure voltage or an idiot light would alleviate that nagging wonder if the tubes are toast.
So, while I remain quite excited to put the Magma M into my system, its also frustrating to now learn that there is literally no way to know if the Nat tubes are operating at optimum - I'm begining to quesiton my decision and call off the purchase.
Thoughts? What am I missing here?
You are not missing much in my mind. However for me personally the key argument is this: “the tubes have a long life because the design does not work the tubes hard at all”. This literally gives these tubes a lot of time, and given most audiophiles’ purchase habits and listening practices there is a good chance you’ll be changing things up well before any tubes make you do it.
Also, the matter for me boiled down to this: “can you live without the magic you get in that sound, or is the discomfort of seeing these tubes glow like magma and heat up the place too much of a stretch in terms of convenience?”
I tried going the conventional solid state route again (at least seasonally) but what I was giving up in sound made it so I had to go back to this single end unique design of Dejan’s. BUT this one being a solid state hybrid and being way more manageable in terms of heat.
The “worn out tubes sound like crap” is no real argument in my mind, so it doesn’t help the case for Magma M in that sense.
