A fabulous and thoughtful reply! Loved it. There is definitely something to be said for DHTs. Very much looking forward to your thoughts when you receive the Tara.
Introducing My System
- Thread starter Thundersnow
- Start date
Uros
I'm having fun watch you explore your new options. I'm particularly interested to see what you think of the Tara 30A. But since you like the NAT Symbiosis, I'm curious if you are also considering the NAT Magnetostat SE preamp? The Tara 30A and NAT Magnetostat appear to be two top tier tube/transformer-based preamps made in Serbia! Who's going to be able to check them out and compare them reliably for us, if not you?
Marty
One guy for his NAT Magma replaced the Magnetostat with the Soulution preamp
Ask and ye shall receive.
Ooh, those *are* pretty.
Then again, I think factories and power stations are pretty, lol.
Then again, I think factories and power stations are pretty, lol.
Last edited:
Pretty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. They've fantastically blended with my hifi shelf and in that sense they look great. Do I think they are pretty as such? For my sense of aesthetics ... not really.
However, as far as the build quality these are the best I've seen from NAT. All the Magmas included.
Your describing the Magnetostat being too complex for its own good, maybe introducing a lack of transparency.
That Symbiosis New looks super streamlined and dare I say it, less complex than the Magma New.
Does Dejan have any plans to bring out a "stripped back" new design flagship preamp?
That Symbiosis New looks super streamlined and dare I say it, less complex than the Magma New.
Does Dejan have any plans to bring out a "stripped back" new design flagship preamp?
He does actually, he TRIED explaining to me what he's doing (but I'm totally fuzzy on the concept so can't share anything yet), but again, I think he's gonna go "off the script" even more this time. He's just continually fascinated with new ideas and out of the box approaches. I guess that's just how he is.
Whether in principal the design will be simpler. I very much doubt it, but we'll see.
Soulution 710 Vs. NAT Symbiosis New on my refurbished Apogee Duettas:
So while undoubtably the tone is amazing with the NAT amps powering the Duettas, I had to “scratch that itch” if you will and try out the Duettas with the Soulution 710 stereo amp. The principal reason being of course to get a reference as to whether or not the NATs are powerful enough to drive the Duettas properly. To that end, the Soulution amp is incredibly stable down to 1 or 2 ohms whereas I’m running the NATs with the the Duettas on the 8 ohm tap — the principal reason being that the NATs sound VASTLY better using the 8 ohm tap instead of the 4 ohm one. Given that the Duettas (at least the original ones according to my memory) measure at around 3.5 ohm suffice to say from a technical standpoint I wanted to hear what proper impedance matching between the amp and the speaker brings to the table.
To get to the point, and in a semi anticlimactic fashion dare I say, the conclusion is that I prefer the tone of NAT (more body and soul to the music), while the Soulution undoubtably brings way more control, bass articulation and a bigger sound stage with better instrument separation.
What’s keeping me very happy about this little experiment is that the imminent arrival of Clarisys Studio Plus will lighten the load on the NATs with its 5 ohm impedance and the much higher sensitivity — roughly around 88db. So in that sense, I am hoping to get the best of both worlds. For full disclosure, initially I thought my NAT speaker cables lacked a few inches to connect them successfully between the Soulution and Duettas so I used some fairly cheapish UPOCC Neotech speaker cables. Those gave a very skewed perception of the 710s tone, and as soon as I managed to connect the NAT cables I got much closer to the Symbiosis New tone. Close but not fully there mind you.
On the other hand, the bass control and the overall grip on the speakers that 710 is displaying is leaps and bounds ahead of what NAT can do with the Duettas at least (mind the impedance match mind you that I spoke about above),
View attachment 135184
In the next experiment we are bi-amping the Duettas. Running the Soulution 710 on the woofer and the NAT Symbiosis New on the Midrange Tweeter. Stay tuned
The added distortion induced by running the NAT’s at 8 ohm into a 3.5ohm load due to the impedance mismatch is interesting to hear the preference , the higher voltage on the 8ohm tap will grip the bass better tipping the balance , maybe this is the tone part you prefer , but would limit drive due to mismatch ..
A quick listen to the system in its current iteration. Still using the iPhone mic but I did order this “fancy” stereo one that I’m waiting to get from Amazon. This is with the Soulution 710 amp. Nice match with Apogee have to say.
By a fair margin, the best hi fi setup I’ve owned after the active 4-way 3.6r Magneplanar system I’ve enjoyed a decade ago. Incidentally both planar speakers. The empty spot is reserved for the imminent arrival of the CEC TL-2N Dual Belt Drive CD Transport.
Let me try and dig up a picture of the Maggie setup from ages ago:
Another blast from the past. An active 4-way, with the Apogee Stage and then Watt Puppy bass portion acting as the low end and the Townshend supertweeter on top.
Let me try and dig up a picture of the Maggie setup from ages ago:
Another blast from the past. An active 4-way, with the Apogee Stage and then Watt Puppy bass portion acting as the low end and the Townshend supertweeter on top.
So I wanted to take the time and present in this video what I've done with this 4-way active project of mine. I am tremendously proud of the sound I've gotten out of this setup. It's remarkably and paradoxically analogue, or rather lifelike now in a way I haven't heard in almost any hi fi setup out there. Check out the video:
I just watched the video. Very interesting!
But I'm a little confused. Are you saying that you prefer the sound of this Yamaha system over the sound of your reconditioned Duetta system?
That active tube crossover looks very cool. What is the nature of its adjustability? Are the crossover frequencies fixed or variable? Is the attenuation of each bandpass fixed or variable?
But I'm a little confused. Are you saying that you prefer the sound of this Yamaha system over the sound of your reconditioned Duetta system?
That active tube crossover looks very cool. What is the nature of its adjustability? Are the crossover frequencies fixed or variable? Is the attenuation of each bandpass fixed or variable?
Hey Ron, thanks! Let me clarify:
I prefer the Duetta system. I am VERY happy with both of these systems right now. But to further clarify, I prefer the Duetta speaker over the Yamaha without a shadow of a doubt. Also, the Soulution amp is vastly superior to my AB custom amps (however, I don’t have two 710s at hand).
I am seriously contemplating, however, (when Clarysis arrives) to set them up with this custom active system and give this a go. As it is right now, it’s just a superior concept. At this point, it’s my assumption that this MIGHT sing better than the passive setup I have at home (even with the clearly inferior quality of components). Remains to be heard of course. It’s a fun little experiment either way! I was truly immensely surprised with what I heard in the final iteration of the active setup.
The crossover itself is extremely flexible and applicable to any speaker out there (as long as you have a direct connection to each of the drivers). I can adjust just about anything. I can configure it to run with different types of amps — whatever. I just prefer an active system which has all identical components and cables for each of the drivers. For coherency sake.
I use Linkwitz 12db cuts with original Yamaha frequency points (so 500-600hz and 6000-ish hz acoustically), and the mids have a -3db attenuation while the highs are -4db attenuated. I don’t use a high pass for the bass driver and instead let it play all the way down, while the subs come in at around 50-60hz. 12db Linkwitz as well (I bypass the Rel crossover).
So yes, very flexible and I very much plan to try it with the Duettas and the Clarysis Studio Plus. It’s a very simple 2-way crossover design — a couple of dbs of attenuation for the tweeter ribbon and a 12 LWR at around 300-400hz. It’s just a couple of clicks in the digital crossover interface. Of course, I then take about a week or two of critical listening and measurements to fine tune everything, once I’m in the ballpark and all the phases align.
That all makes sense. Thank you for the detailed reply!
I have to say that contrary to my dogmatic, long-standing, ultra-purist, no transistor philosophy and passive crossover only philosophy, I was pretty impressed with that CS Port ACN400 crossover Angus, Gary and I installed at Cyrus' in Spokane on his REI tri-amplified Auditoriums. I was impressed both with the functionality of the crossover, and with the sound resulting from the tri-amplification.
Contrary to my long-standing no-adulteration philosophy I thought it was gosh darn useful to be able to adjust the relative levels of each driver!
I have to say that contrary to my dogmatic, long-standing, ultra-purist, no transistor philosophy and passive crossover only philosophy, I was pretty impressed with that CS Port ACN400 crossover Angus, Gary and I installed at Cyrus' in Spokane on his REI tri-amplified Auditoriums. I was impressed both with the functionality of the crossover, and with the sound resulting from the tri-amplification.
Contrary to my long-standing no-adulteration philosophy I thought it was gosh darn useful to be able to adjust the relative levels of each driver!
Totally agree, Ron! The goal in the future is to take this basic “proof of concept” design to a more high end level. The key for me is this interaction of Duelund caps and tubes with digital gear and what it does to the overall sound — and how it adds this elusive flair/sparkle/depth to the music that I was always missing with active. But at the same time, I am not ready to give up my passive system either, because there is still some special magic that comes with it. Not to mention Tara 30A — this week!!
