Introducing My System

[marty]

Hey Marty!

I spoke to Saša not two days ago. My Tara 30A is painted, all the parts assembled and now the guys need to come back from vacation to put it all together! So we’re getting close!

As it so happens by the way, I own the NAT Magnetostat SE preamp and have lived with several iterations of it that Dejan was continually upgrading for me for years. Ultimately, it gave way to Trafomatic Lara.

Why?

First up, Magnetostat SE is in purely technical terms a better match (no surprises there) with the NAT Symbiosis New amps. The principal reason being that the amps have an incredibly low input Z of 2,5k Ohms so they require a preamp with very low output impedance. Magnetostat in SE mode has the output Z of roughly around 50 ohms. This is great. Should provide more dynamics and higher extension in both lows and highs with the amps.*

This preamp literally breathes life into any solid state gear I’ve tried/owned. It did so with the D’Agostino Momentums as effectively as it did with the Soulution 710, Pass Labs or any number of other amps I’ve either listened to or tried it with.

But, there are drawbacks. The design itself feels overly complicated to me. The tiny tubes are soldered to the output board (autobias was introduced in later revisions, and they had a habit of getting out of whack), the controls are digital and the preamp is battery powered. In an attempt to achieve the best possible tone, I think Dejan went a bit overboard in his attempts. So the plus side of breathing life into solid state gear is also a drawback as it ultimately colors the sound and makes it slightly more veiled than I’d like my preamp to sound. Also, all the drawbacks of battery powered gear apply.

In stark contrast to that, Trafomatic’s Lara is a relatively simple design, a two box solution mind you, but the devil is in the details — the wiring they use, of course the transformers, the careful impedance matching, etc.

The end result is a slightly less “tubey” sound, but with more clarity, delineation of instruments and voices as well as a bigger sound stage.

Don’t get me wrong, both preamps are good — but Lara’s build quality, combined with (to me) superior looks as well as the sound signature I want to get out of a preamp made me switch to it and never look back. Lara is quite simply a more mature and well rounded hi fi product.

Consequently, Tara 30A (aside from the steep price jump) is a no brainer. Technically it’s better matched with the NAT amps (output Z of a mere 25 ohms), it’s got DHT tubes (still miss my WE 300B from the Lampi Golden Gate 2); it’s just better in every way. And A LOT more expensive … sigh. In addition, Saša will add some custom output gain options for my Tara 30A which should offer better gain matching with my gear. Tremendously important to have a good gain structure when mixing and matching components so that’s a very nice gesture from Saša.

That said, I treat Tara 30A as the “end game” pre. Oh and btw, I’ve tried running Horizon as the preamp for the NAT Symbiosis New. While Horizon was able to sound more articulate and in many ways better with NAT Magma Evos as compared to running them with Magnetostat SE, the situation is fully reversed with Symbiosis New (think input Z). Horizon as a pre sounds like crap. Inserting Lara into the signal path literally does wonders. So I can only imagine what Tara 30A will do.

*In practice, I don’t hear that though when comparing with Trafomatic Lara.

A fabulous and thoughtful reply! Loved it. There is definitely something to be said for DHTs. Very much looking forward to your thoughts when you receive the Tara.

 

[bonzo75]

Uros
I'm having fun watch you explore your new options. I'm particularly interested to see what you think of the Tara 30A. But since you like the NAT Symbiosis, I'm curious if you are also considering the NAT Magnetostat SE preamp? The Tara 30A and NAT Magnetostat appear to be two top tier tube/transformer-based preamps made in Serbia! Who's going to be able to check them out and compare them reliably for us, if not you?
Marty

One guy for his NAT Magma replaced the Magnetostat with the Soulution preamp

 

[spiritofmusic]

Any chance of a close up photo or two of the Symbiosis New?

 

[Thundersnow]

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ooh, those *are* pretty.
Then again, I think factories and power stations are pretty, lol.

 

[Thundersnow]

Ooh, those *are* pretty.
Then again, I think factories are pretty, lol.

Pretty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. They've fantastically blended with my hifi shelf and in that sense they look great. Do I think they are pretty as such? For my sense of aesthetics ... not really.

However, as far as the build quality these are the best I've seen from NAT. All the Magmas included.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Your describing the Magnetostat being too complex for its own good, maybe introducing a lack of transparency.
That Symbiosis New looks super streamlined and dare I say it, less complex than the Magma New.
Does Dejan have any plans to bring out a "stripped back" new design flagship preamp?

 

[Thundersnow]

Your describing the Magnetostat being too complex for its own good, maybe introducing a lack of transparency.
That Symbiosis New looks super streamlined and dare I say it, less complex than the Magma New.
Does Dejan have any plans to bring out a "stripped back" new design flagship preamp?

He does actually, he TRIED explaining to me what he's doing (but I'm totally fuzzy on the concept so can't share anything yet), but again, I think he's gonna go "off the script" even more this time. He's just continually fascinated with new ideas and out of the box approaches. I guess that's just how he is.

Whether in principal the design will be simpler. I very much doubt it, but we'll see.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Soulution 710 Vs. NAT Symbiosis New on my refurbished Apogee Duettas:

So while undoubtably the tone is amazing with the NAT amps powering the Duettas, I had to “scratch that itch” if you will and try out the Duettas with the Soulution 710 stereo amp. The principal reason being of course to get a reference as to whether or not the NATs are powerful enough to drive the Duettas properly. To that end, the Soulution amp is incredibly stable down to 1 or 2 ohms whereas I’m running the NATs with the the Duettas on the 8 ohm tap — the principal reason being that the NATs sound VASTLY better using the 8 ohm tap instead of the 4 ohm one. Given that the Duettas (at least the original ones according to my memory) measure at around 3.5 ohm suffice to say from a technical standpoint I wanted to hear what proper impedance matching between the amp and the speaker brings to the table.

To get to the point, and in a semi anticlimactic fashion dare I say, the conclusion is that I prefer the tone of NAT (more body and soul to the music), while the Soulution undoubtably brings way more control, bass articulation and a bigger sound stage with better instrument separation.

What’s keeping me very happy about this little experiment is that the imminent arrival of Clarisys Studio Plus will lighten the load on the NATs with its 5 ohm impedance and the much higher sensitivity — roughly around 88db. So in that sense, I am hoping to get the best of both worlds. For full disclosure, initially I thought my NAT speaker cables lacked a few inches to connect them successfully between the Soulution and Duettas so I used some fairly cheapish UPOCC Neotech speaker cables. Those gave a very skewed perception of the 710s tone, and as soon as I managed to connect the NAT cables I got much closer to the Symbiosis New tone. Close but not fully there mind you.

On the other hand, the bass control and the overall grip on the speakers that 710 is displaying is leaps and bounds ahead of what NAT can do with the Duettas at least (mind the impedance match mind you that I spoke about above),

View attachment 135184

In the next experiment we are bi-amping the Duettas. Running the Soulution 710 on the woofer and the NAT Symbiosis New on the Midrange Tweeter. Stay tuned

The added distortion induced by running the NAT’s at 8 ohm into a 3.5ohm load due to the impedance mismatch is interesting to hear the preference , the higher voltage on the 8ohm tap will grip the bass better tipping the balance , maybe this is the tone part you prefer , but would limit drive due to mismatch ..

 

[Thundersnow]

The added distortion induced by running the NAT’s at 8 ohm into a 3.5ohm load due to the impedance mismatch is interesting too hear the preference , the higher voltage on the 8ohm tap will grip the bass better tipping the balance , maybe this is the tone part you prefer , but would limit drive due to mismatch ..

I think you are exactly right.

 

[Thundersnow]

A quick listen to the system in its current iteration. Still using the iPhone mic but I did order this “fancy” stereo one that I’m waiting to get from Amazon. This is with the Soulution 710 amp. Nice match with Apogee have to say.

 

[Thundersnow]

By a fair margin, the best hi fi setup I’ve owned after the active 4-way 3.6r Magneplanar system I’ve enjoyed a decade ago. Incidentally both planar speakers. The empty spot is reserved for the imminent arrival of the CEC TL-2N Dual Belt Drive CD Transport.



Let me try and dig up a picture of the Maggie setup from ages ago:



Another blast from the past. An active 4-way, with the Apogee Stage and then Watt Puppy bass portion acting as the low end and the Townshend supertweeter on top.