Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​

We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".

 

From Emile: "Digital" distortions are actually less offensive to me as some "analogue" distortions, maybe I should just say it, I genuinely don't like vinyl playback. It's just something personal.

Me too!
Finally, someone of utmost respect said it.
Thank You Emile!

 

Correct. AES/EBU ( and SPDIF) is the first digital output option board we are supplying for XDMI. This is not because of it's technical properties, but because it's the industry standard for connecting CD transports and therefor fitted in virtually every commercial DAC. This allows you to use XDMI with every DAC, though "performance limited" by AES/EBU's properties.

The other option we're offering at launch is an analogue output module, this does not suffer from interface limitations, the I2S and clock lines are just centimeters long with near perfect signal integrity.

By comparing these 2 options you can get an idea of the effect the interface itself has on sound quality even though these differences are obviously subject to actual DAC/output stage performance or "colouration" / "voicing".

In a nutshell we are proposing that the interface itself is a mayor contributor to performance, and we are providing these options to proof our case. We can have endless online discussions about why, with as the best possible outcome some sort of consensus without an actual solution, so here we are now, providing you with actual hardware (and software) you can listen to and form your own opinion.



First let me be clear: I do not prefer AES/EBU over USB at all. IMHO USB is superior over AES/EBU for the following reasons:

-It supports all sample rates
-An USB interface generates the sensitive I2S inside the DAC, solving all issues surrounding timing/jitter/clocking sensitivities AES/EBU suffers from, USB interfaces allow the I2S master clock to be provided by the DAC, which is the ideal scenario, over short clock and I2S lines.

However USB has some technical properties we have discovered to be limiting performance as well, we have squeezed it for almost all it's got, and although Olympus and/or Olympus I/O outfitted with USB does improve USB performance significantly over what it currently provides now, it does not address these technical limitations, which cannot be solved as they are inherent to the USB interface.

I'm not going to expose our discoveries, but this has something to do with both the hardware and software, having to convert and/or alter bit streams multiple times before they are eventually converted to I2S. If you do not believe in this having a mayor influence I'd like to refer you to the customer feedback on the recent "NSM" update for our XDMS playback software which only handles bits in a slightly different way. Let's say this is why the "D" is in XDMI, for "Direct", bypassing quite a large number of conversion stages.

To answer your question "Can I ask why you currently seem to prefer it to your top USB ?" :

USB has an undeniable sound signature, AES/EBU also has a signature, all interfaces do. You could describe this as a "digital signature", though let me add I don't actually agree to the "digital" versus "analogue" nomenclature to describe these differences as these are usually used in a way to describe "digital" as something negative relative to "analogue". IMHO "analogue" and "digital" have their own unique types of distortion. "Digital" distortions are actually less offensive to me as some "analogue" distortions, maybe I should just say it, I genuinely don't like vinyl playback. It's just something personal.

XDMI lacks the "digital" signature we're completely used to listening to, but it also does not have any typical "analogue" colourations, hence my description is it does not sound typical "digital" nor does it sound typical "analogue". IMHO it's an evolutionary step up in digital playback fidelity rather then "just" another upgrade. That is however my opinion, we will find out if others agree in a few months.

Thanks for such an elaborate and enlightening answer.

I guess it's not a big surprise that I don't consider this to be a supreme alternative at all. For me it's trying to fix an ancient protocol, designed to be cheap for mass employment in cheap consumer level devices, in an age when there was very little knowledge and/or interest in audiophile level playback fidelity, back when 44.1KHz was considered to be a good choice, and when applying compression was common practice. Choices made nearly 40 years ago still limiting our performance today.

Now I am again confused. If you feel so about AES/EBU why supplying it as a comparison alternative to your DAC? Wouldn't USB be a more trusty option for many DACs?

 

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

May I ask you a question regarding the connection between Olympus XDMI and DACs?

I'm not sure if this question has been raised before.

An ideal connection would be :

Olympus/XDMI ---- XDMI/DAC

This shall probably be possible for MSB and LampiZator DAC owners.

But for owners of other DAC brands, you've chosen to design an AES/EBU module for the XDMI interface.

I've read your comments about the limitations of USB controllers and your findings on the subject. As regards AES/EBU, the limitations are well known.

This might sound a bit silly since you've probably already thought about all this.

But why didn't you choose to design an USB module for the XDMI interface?

Why AES/EBU over USB?

Cheers,

Thomas

 

From Emile: "Digital" distortions are actually less offensive to me as some "analogue" distortions, maybe I should just say it, I genuinely don't like vinyl playback. It's just something personal.

Me too!
Finally, someone of utmost respect said it.
Thank You Emile!I

We should note that Emile is addressing vinyl not tape!

 

From Emile: "Digital" distortions are actually less offensive to me as some "analogue" distortions, maybe I should just say it, I genuinely don't like vinyl playback. It's just something personal.

Me too!
Finally, someone of utmost respect said it.
Thank You Emile!

I've shared this before. I cut my teeth with vinyl and recording everything to reel to reel. I could never handle SURFACE NOISE! It drove me insane! I was meticulous with what we had for cleaning. A pop was like an arrow penetrating my brain! I even tried a Vinyl Noise Reduction Unit called Snap Crackle Pop! I kid you not, that was the name of it. This was around 1977-78...I think it was made by SAE?

 

Seems Emile today is upping the ante with a few choice comments about the internal DAC. The issue of i2s limitations with the XDMI analogue board doesn’t exist due to the short cable runs. Personally I’m excited to hear this internal DAC as I’m betting Emile has done something special here. I’m planning to listen to the XDMI analogue board first. Hopefully I remain calm , cool and collected because like John T my system has never sounded so good on the digital side and I know that Lukasz and Emile are going to make this happen at the Lampi side. For me I see nothing in my future that will nake me give up
mt Horizon. Hence for my ears the only meaningful test is to hear the Horizon with fully functional XDMI interface on both Olympus and Horizon otherwise for my ears it is not a true comparison.


Darn, when I read what I just posted makes me want to hear the internal DAC but comparison will be best when Lukasz creates a fix. According to FredA Lukasz is committed to this project. In fact the thought on both sides is for me to delay the soft launch planned at my house until Lampi has a solution. I’m betting it will be sooner than later with 2 great minds working on it.

Steve,
We should ask Emile to supply us a few tapes recorded using his XDMI/DAC from top digital recordings - I would happily nominate a few of them ...

 

Steve,
We should ask Emile to supply us a few tapes recorded using his XDMI/DAC from top digital recordings - I would happily nominate a few of them ...

I wholeheartedly vote AGAINST having Taiko do any recordings!!!

 

I wholeheartedly vote AGAINST having Taiko do any recordings!!!

Can we know why?

 

Thanks for such an elaborate and enlightening answer.



Now I am again confused. If you feel so about AES/EBU why supplying it as a comparison alternative to your DAC? Wouldn't USB be a more trusty option for many DACs?

The Olympus server XDMI ships with:

1) USB
2) XDMI - analogue out
3) XDMI - AES/EBU + SPDIF out

So you can compare all three.

 

Can we know why?

Sure and it's just my vote, but with YT recordings sure you might be able to get data points of what something sounds like, but from someone who has published 100+ YT videos on my YT channel, I know that that the sound on the YT videos does not represent what it really sounds like in-room.

I do the YT videos just for the fun of it, not critical listening or evaluation of the components or systems.

Without in-room bass, which is not present on YT videos, and which to me bass is sort of everything and the foundation that the rest of the frequency spectrum rests on, you can get a distorted perspective on what something really sounds like.

PLUS I love hearing the opinions of our "Taiko Train riders" when they hear the hw/sw updates that Taiko provides. These opinions really mean something as they are hearing what something sounds like in a real world environment.

Again, just my vote, no big deal. I think that the new XDMI product is too important to listen to in any way other than in-room systems.

 

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

May I ask you a question regarding the connection between Olympus XDMI and DACs?

I'm not sure if this question has been raised before.

An ideal connection would be :

Olympus/XDMI ---- XDMI/DAC

This shall probably be possible for MSB and LampiZator DAC owners.

But for owners of other DAC brands, you've chosen to design an AES/EBU module for the XDMI interface.

I've read your comments about the limitations of USB controllers and your findings on the subject. As regards AES/EBU, the limitations are well known.

This might sound a bit silly since you've probably already thought about all this.

But why didn't you choose to design an USB module for the XDMI interface?

Why AES/EBU over USB?

Cheers,

Thomas

XDMI -> I2S -> USB -> USB -> I2S will be inferior to USB -> I2S

MSB will not be Olympus/XDMI ---- XDMI/DAC, but Olympus/XDMI/Pro ISL --- DAC

Totaldac will be Olympus/XDMI/AESEBU --- DAC

DCS will be Olympus/XDMI/dual AESEBU -- DAC with perhaps external clocking options (unless they're interested in adopting XDMI natively, which I doubt)

Aries Cerat and Lampizator are interested in adopting XDMI natively

For the rest we'll have to see how things develop. There's a limit to what we can handle simultaneously.

 

Sure and it's just my vote, but with YT recordings sure you might be able to get data points of what something sounds like, but from someone who has published 100+ YT videos on my YT channel, I know that that the sound on the YT videos does not represent what it really sounds like in-room…

Emile could just record to .wav, convert that to .flac (losslessly) and attach the files here or put them on Dropbox (etc).

No need to involve YouTube at all…

(not that I’m asking for this — just pointing out that it seemed a bit of a leap to equate “recording” with YouTube?)

 

Sure and it's just my vote, but with YT recordings sure you might be able to get data points of what something sounds like, but from someone who has published 100+ YT videos on my YT channel, I know that that the sound on the YT videos does not represent what it really sounds like in-room.

I do the YT videos just for the fun of it, not critical listening or evaluation of the components or systems.

Without in-room bass, which is not present on YT videos, and which to me bass is sort of everything and the foundation that the rest of the frequency spectrum rests on, you can get a distorted perspective on what something really sounds like.

PLUS I love hearing the opinions of our "Taiko Train riders" when they hear the hw/sw updates that Taiko provides. These opinions really mean something as they are hearing what something sounds like in a real world environment.

Again, just my vote, no big deal. I think that the new XDMI product is too important to listen to in any way other than in-room systems.

Just to say that my post clearly referred to quality analog tapes that we could play in our top machines in our systems, not YT. My opinion on YT is written elsewhere in the forum since long.

 

The Olympus server XDMI ships with:

1) USB
2) XDMI - analogue out
3) XDMI - AES/EBU + SPDIF out

So you can compare all three.

So we can conclude in a single word that USB kills XDMI? No XDMI-USB is possible?

 

So we can conclude in a single word that USB kills XDMI? No XDMI-USB is possible?

XDMI -> USB would completely defeat its purpose, which is to replace USB with something better.

 

Just to say that my post clearly referred to quality analog tapes that we could play in our top machines in our systems, not YT. My opinion on YT is written elsewhere in the forum since long.

Sorry that sounds like a total waste of time/resource imho, even more so than YT videos. To ask Taiko to take the time to make analog tapes and send them to you and others?

Even more so I would vote in Taiko not doing this vs. working on Olympus/I/O, XDMS and the other 30+ projects that they have going on.

 

The Olympus server XDMI ships with:

1) USB
2) XDMI - analogue out
3) XDMI - AES/EBU + SPDIF out

So you can compare all three.

Dear Emile, After we determine which of the three options sounds best in a particular system, should we remove the other two cards to get the best sound? Would that reduce the noise and/or power consumption and improve the sound? I wonder if you tested this.

 

You cannot have XDMI, analog and digital AES/EBU cards connected simultaneously. Both are “daughter” cards that connect to the “mother” XDMI card in the same place.

 

You cannot have XDMI, analog and digital AES/EBU cards connected simultaneously. Both are “daughter” cards that connect to the “mother” XDMI card in the same place.

Hi Francisco, you are right regarding the daughter cart, but I understand that one can have the XDMI card and the USB card simultaneously in the Olympus XDMI, so I wonder if it will sound better if we take out the USB card (if it is not the best option) and leave only the XDMI card.

 

It’s always gratifying to read Emile’s thinking on future directions and how he plans to pursue them. However there are some very pragmatic issues I’d like to raise. To begin, if we ordered an Olympus, my understanding it will be delivered with a USB output board as well as a combination RCA/analog out and AES/SPIDF board. But the way I see it, that latter option is already unattractive for many of us now that it appears an XDMI out board will being developed to be used hopefully with an XDMI input board by 3rd parties such as Lampizator and others. As you can imagine, this has some of us already rolling our eyes back to our brain in anticipation. So while it might be nice to play with the Analog/AES board that is delivered with the Olympus, it appears that it will be a relatively short-lived option, and thus it doesn’t excite me. Using the Olympus delivered with a USB out that will provide a BPS for both a new I and O board plus the other intrinsic advantages of the Olympus would be more than enough to keep me satisfied until the long term goal of an XDMI in/out to my DAC can be implemented.

What I would prefer to see is to have the Olympus delivered with the USB board, and a to-be-developed XDMI out board so that when other manufacturers develop their XDMI input board, the Olympus is ready to go. Part of my bias for this is that I have to rent a lift every time I take down the Extreme (or the future Olympus) to change a board, install memory, other modifications etc.). I’d much prefer an XDMI output board included upon Olympus delivery even if it can’t be used immediately, thus making the Olympus plug and play waiting for the day Lampi revises their unit (which will surely require a retrofit back in Poland. Ah, the joy of striving for SOA playback!). At least the Olympus can remain on the high shelf unperturbed for the foreseeable future (whatever that may be given Emile’s fertile mind). It is not lost on me that I may have to take down the Olympus at some point in the future anyway for yet to be announced future creations.). That’s my 2 cents anyway.

If the Olympus production is 3-4 mo away, surely, an XDMI output board can be designed and ready to ship with the Olympus by then? If the team requires food delivery in the middle of the night, I’m happy to pitch in for a go-fund-me campaign for midnight food delivery service to help get this done.