Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

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For those who just started reading up on Olympus, Olympus I/O, and XDMI, please note that all information in this thread has been summarized in a single PDF document that can be downloaded from the Taiko Website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

The document is frequently updated.

Scroll down to the 'XDMI, Olympus Music Server, Olympus I/O' section and click 'XDMI, Olympus, Olympus I/O Product Introduction & FAQ' to download the latest version.

Good morning WBF!​


We are introducing the culmination of close to 4 years of research and development. As a bona fide IT/tech nerd with a passion for music, I have always been intrigued by the potential of leveraging the most modern of technologies in order to create a better music playback experience. This, amongst others, led to the creation of our popular, perhaps even revolutionary, Extreme music server 5 years ago, which we have been steadily improving and updating with new technologies throughout its life cycle. Today I feel we can safely claim it's holding its ground against the onslaught of new server releases from other companies, and we are committed to keep improving it for years to come.

We are introducing a new server model called the Olympus. Hierarchically, it positions itself above the Extreme. It does provide quite a different music experience than the Extreme, or any other server I've heard, for that matter. Conventional audiophile descriptions such as sound staging, dynamics, color palette, etc, fall short to describe this difference. It does not sound digital or analog, I would be inclined to describe it as coming closer to the intended (or unintended) performance of the recording engineer.

Committed to keeping the Extreme as current as possible, we are introducing a second product called the Olympus I/O. This is an external upgrade to the Extreme containing a significant part of the Olympus technology, allowing it to come near, though not entirely at, Olympus performance levels. The Olympus I/O can even be added to the Olympus itself to elevate its performance even further, though not as dramatic an uplift as adding it to the Extreme. Consider it the proverbial "cherry on top".
 
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That’s a good question. I suppose the full implementation as it exists now would be 1) too expensive and 2) too complex for mass deployment. The complexity more or less limits it’s application to our servers while the cost will make it a no go for anything reasonably affordable.

There could be a next phase where we can attempt to design a more affordable version, which could be more widely deployed, with more universal drivers, which could then be utilised by other server/source manufacturers, as this might be a necessity for wider acceptance as right now it’s practically vendor locked on the server/source side.

I’m very curious on where this new road will take us and beyond exited a few manufacturers are willing to adopt our solution, most DAC manufacturers actually are very aware of the existing interface limitations but there’s (was) just no alternative.
That "WAS" very subtle and well-placed Emile!
 
I think so many of our systems are very good now. The future along with some money is going to provide more frosting on the cake. How it all unfolds will be just as it is now in regard to personal taste. The subjective nature of audio will never change. Audio and wine are very similar, they present themselves in a variety of ways and interpretation. We are in the best of " Audio Times."
 
I very much hope so!. Or a stand alone Taiko DAC that plugs in to the server using an installable card.

The problem with that solution is in the software side which is integral to its performance.

So for that next phase we’d need to cooperate with a server manufacturer who actually writes their own software, there are very few of those, on the X86 side the only one I know of is Innuos, on the Arm side there are more, usually classified as streamers in stead of servers, like Aurender, Lumin, Linn etc. On top of that we’re on windows, while these others are on linux. The only 2 other server manufacturers I’m aware of who run Windows are Wadax and Laufer Teknik.

We have not talked to any of those so this is a strictly theoretical proposition.
 
That’s a good question. I suppose the full implementation as it exists now would be 1) too expensive and 2) too complex for mass deployment. The complexity more or less limits it’s application to our servers while the cost will make it a no go for anything reasonably affordable.

There could be a next phase where we can attempt to design a more affordable version, which could be more widely deployed, with more universal drivers, which could then be utilised by other server/source manufacturers, as this might be a necessity for wider acceptance as right now it’s practically vendor locked on the server/source side.

I’m very curious on where this new road will take us and beyond exited a few manufacturers are willing to adopt our solution, most DAC manufacturers actually are very aware of the existing interface limitations but there’s (was) just no alternative.
Just out of curiosity, how expensive is too expensive? We might all be surprised at how much the community actually is willing to pay for thing "done right". The expense might be a smaller problem than one might think. Just look at how many orders Olympus and OIO are getting.
 
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The problem with that solution is in the software side which is integral to its performance.

So for that next phase we’d need to cooperate with a server manufacturer who actually writes their own software, there are very few of those, on the X86 side the only one I know of is Innuos, on the Arm side there are more, usually classified as streamers in stead of servers, like Aurender, Lumin, Linn etc. On top of that we’re on windows, while these others are on linux. The only 2 other server manufacturers I’m aware of who run Windows are Wadax and Laufer Teknik.

We have not talked to any of those so this is a strictly theoretical proposition.
Or a Taiko subsidiary producing more affordable servers with an integrated DAC
 
Just out of curiosity, how expensive is too expensive? We might all be surprised at how much the community actually is willing to pay for thing "done right". The expense might be a smaller problem than one might think. Just look at how many orders Olympus and OIO are getting.

Most likely more then what we’re asking for it ourselves.
 
@Emile, here is my wish list for a Mk2 XDMI DAC board:

1) At least one or two digital inputs (SPDIF coax, toslink, AES). I use my stereo system together with my projector, so I need one (preferably two) digital inputs for the digital audio of the video.
2) Level control (either digital or analog). I don't use a preamp. Currently my DAC has such a good output stage that sounds better than with the preamp I had previously.
3) A top quality output stage with low impendance and high enough level.
4) A top quality digital to analog conversion stage (with ICs or discrete).

If there is need for more space or power, perhaps the two slots and two batteries of the Olympus IO could be used for the XDMI DAC. The network card could stay in the Olympus.

Cheers.
 
@Emile, here is my wish list for a Mk2 XDMI DAC board:

1) At least one or two digital inputs (SPDIF coax, toslink, AES). I use my stereo system together with my projector, so I need one (preferably two) digital inputs for the digital audio of the video.
2) Level control (either digital or analog). I don't use a preamp. Currently my DAC has such a good output stage that sounds better than with the preamp I had previously.
3) A top quality output stage with low impendance and high enough level.
4) A top quality digital to analog conversion stage (with ICs or discrete).

If there is need for more space or power, perhaps the two slots and two batteries of the Olympus IO could be used for the XDMI DAC. The network card could stay in the Olympus.

Cheers.

Okay :)
 
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One thing that still confuses me is that XDMI was developed, if I understand this correctly, to replace USB but is being implemented in the Olympus without this functionality. It tells me I don’t really understand what XDMI is. I have read this whole thread twice and am still confused on this point, but then I am not very strong on the technical stuff. I don’t doubt that it sounds amazing, but I am just not sure how we have arrived at this point. A bit more explanation of the development journey that XDMI went through might clear things up for me.
 
One thing that still confuses me is that XDMI was developed, if I understand this correctly, to replace USB but is being implemented in the Olympus without this functionality. It tells me I don’t really understand what XDMI is. I have read this whole thread twice and am still confused on this point, but then I am not very strong on the technical stuff. I don’t doubt that it sounds amazing, but I am just not sure how we have arrived at this point. A bit more explanation of the development journey that XDMI went through might clear things up for me.

Hi @Sun King ,

@Christiaan Punter compiled information posted in this thread in a summary and FAQ document. Since this document is frequently updated, please go to the Downloads section on the Taiko Audio Website. There, you can download the latest PDF document in the Olympus section.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/taiko-audio-downloads

On pages 39/40, I think you’ll find the information you’re looking for.
 
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I'll happily expand on that, thank you for asking. I fully understand this release may come as a surprise to many, as how this turned out came as a surprise to ourselves as well.

We did not start out designing "TACDA/DD" as a replacement for USB. It was meant to be a relative cost effective analogue output option. The vast majority of people actively participating on this forum are what you could consider "hardcore" audiophiles. They don't shy away from purchasing multiple components and build a system taking up considerable shelf space and/or real estate. We did not start out designing "TACDA/DD" for that segment of our customer base.

There is another fast growing segment of people interested in high quality audio, these people are willing to purchase expensive equipment to enhance their music playback experience. However they are not willing to sacrifice a lot of space to this end and compromise their interior designs in the process. These people tend to use active loudspeakers, but a much larger part use headphones, high-end headphones is a fast growing market. This is also the segment of people of an average younger age, you could call them the next generation of audiophiles, as the average age of "traditional" large system owners is now near or at retirement age. They are interested in innovation and technologically advanced gadgets. Although some of them are interested in what they consider to be vintage playback media, vinyl, the vast majority use online streaming services. As our goal is to build a durable lasting business in high-end audio it is my opinion that we should not ignore but fully embrace this segment, as it will likely be your main source of revenue say 10+ years down the line. As innovating is my passion, my ultimate motivator, I intent to continue doing it as long as I'm physically able to, I'm hoping to have a good 20-30 years of this exciting and fulfilling life ahead of me, hence future proofing our business is one of the highest priorities I have.

I'm getting of track a bit here, back to "TACDA/DD":

So we started designing "TACDA/DD" with the following goals:

1) to be able to provide a one box streaming solution with analogue outputs, aka a build in DAC

2) to have a better performing AES/EBU + SPDIF solution as what we were offering back was based on off the shelf, ancient PCI to AES/EBU / SPDIF / I2S controllers. Our approach to USB was so much better then this that we ended up recommending the use of an external USB to AES/EBU or SPDIF converter rather then using direct AES/EBU or SPDIF out. It as always difficult to explain this to a customer, why would an external USB to AES/EBU - SPDIF converter be superior over a direct AES/EBU - SPDIF solution? Well ancient chips, ancient generic drivers, not specifically designed with audiophile performance in mind. Ok but why didn't you design something yourself? Because we're not a company of the scale of for example Texas instruments who can design and manufacture microprocessors, which they will in fact only do if they can sell millions of them as there's no ROI otherwise. You can see this is not a particularly inspiring conversation to have to spend your time on on a regular basis.

We had the first prototype of "TACDA/DD", a single PCB with both analogue and SPDIF out, with a rudimentary driver stack, up and running just over a year ago. Initially it was a bit of an underwhelming experience, it was not very transparent, veiled even, lacking in colour, a bit "grey", grainy and not very exciting in the dynamics department. I remember thinking oh dear, this is not going to be just a matter of burn-in, but let's keep it running and see what happens. Over the next few days that did not change in any dramatic way, some of the usual improvements but the overall signature remained. However I started to notice a different aspect, being one of an unfatiguing presentation. It rendered music in a very "continuous" way, with prolonged decays, and it did cast a huge soundstage although the images within that soundstage were somewhat flat and 2-dimensional. Switching back to USB and external DAC was infinitely more spectacular, really a different overall performance level, yet lacked this intriguing flow, continuity and immersive soundstage rendering. Over time I caught myself preferring to listen to this different presentation of the "TACDA", there was something inherently "musical" and engaging in it's presentation, making me more forgiving to it's obvious weaknesses. We had more people over listening to it and they unanimously shared my opinion after pointing out what to listen for. The verdict, you may have accidentally discovered something here, this has serious potential, but it needs work, a LOT of work.

At this point we decided to scale up the design effort, perform a full scale in depth analysis on all parts and segments to identify weaknesses, performed almost a complete redesign, a truly large scale effort headed by a project manager and a team of engineers, analysts and software designers, all externally sourced. Over the course of the next few months adjustments to the prototype circuitry and software increased it's performance to the point where I felt confident in claiming this could be considered an alternative to external DACs retailing at up to 15-20K. By May we had a complete redesign and new PCBs ordered, designed to run off battery power matching it's inherently low noise nature. These arrived in August. We have been adjusting and finetuning those again over the past 3 months, performance has once again increased dramatically and the 3rd iteration, which we consider to be the final product, is now scheduled to arrive in January in quantity.

In parallel we also launched a project to widen possible applications, we designed an additional interface enabling moving "TACDA/DD" to an external chassis without a performance (sonic) penalty which ended up providing an even larger uptick in performance and the possibility to be able to apply it to the Extreme while at the same time providing the Extreme with the option to utilise battery power without the need of returning it to base for a refit.

We have now renamed "TACDA/DD" to XDMI after incorporating some knowledge gained from the XDMS development path and it's now bearing some similarities in it's approach to music streaming.

As to specifically address your question: "Are the jitter/timing issues you referred to for AES/SPDIF no longer relevant?"

Yes they are relevant, I have referred to this before as "driving with the handbrake engaged", but it still takes advantage from the XDMI architecture preceding it.

We have more then met the design goals we originally initiated this project for:

1) Direct analogue out -> check
2) Good performing direct AES/EBU - SPDIF out -> check

What the new modular architecture allows beyond the original design goals is:

3) Integrate XDMI natively in an external device like a DAC, though it's now quite substantial in physical size
4) Allows designing multiple output options to directly interface to DAC manufacturer proprietary interfaces, like MSB Pro ISL for a well known example
5) Allows designing a direct headphone output (with volume control), and in extension of that perhaps even preamp like functionality
6) Even allows designing input options for a high quality 1 stop digital hub/source
7) for those who like the direct analogue output functionality we can add things like balanced outputs, or perhaps different DAC options, etc.

Therefor our main future hardware development efforts will be centered on expanding XDMI functionality.
@Sun King
 
Thanks Emile, possibly I was projecting my own desire for a superior interface to USB onto this project!

Given stage one of the project now seems complete and with Lukasz on board am I correct in assuming stage 2 of the project will be focused on the replacement for USB? Can you give us a rough idea of how long stage 2 may take?

Michael
 
Thanks Emile, possibly I was projecting my own desire for a superior interface to USB onto this project!

Given stage one of the project now seems complete and with Lukasz on board am I correct in assuming stage 2 of the project will be focused on the replacement for USB? Can you give us a rough idea of how long stage 2 may take?

Michael

Hi Micheal,

XDMI is the replacement for USB, but currently the output options are limited to analogue out or spdif - aes/ebu, the latter already performs better then USB but is limited to 24/192 samplerates. I use my Horizon with AES/EBU currently. The native xdmi implementation will allow all samplerates and remove the AES/EBU SQ limitations.
 
I was just amazed that this thread which started just over a month ago is now over 57 pages and almost 1200 posts long

Would I love to be a fly on the wall now in Oldenzaal and see all of the Taiko elves at their work benches assembling these units for all of us around the world. IIRC the preorder was open to the first 50 and was sold out almost immediately. Emile then decided to open the presale to the first 100 and from what I heard that too was quickly sold out. As a result there must be some amazing construction line going on now to fill these orders.

@Taiko Audio these must be exciting times for Taiko as the ship date for these units approaches. My guess is that this thread will blossom with comments from users.

Do I sound anxious???;)

is there a photo someone from Taiko can share of their assembly room
 

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