Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?

[Elliot G.]

What was the qualities in the older music that made people want to buy better Hi Fi?

There was a music revolution during the 70's particularly and the explosion of drugs as well. These bands likethe Beatles , Stones, Grateful Dead, Jethro Tull, Almman Brothers etc. were making album music. These albums were head food they were made to listen to on a hi fi and probably stoned. Pink Floyd, The Who were making concept albums. You alkso have to remember that there was no internet. minimal numbers of TV channels, No streaming of anything, FM radio was huge. Rock n Roll was a lifestyle and a huge part of the culture of the day. The muisc hjad huge amounts of influence and popularity. The Beatles were like gods go back and watch the hysteria that happened. It was very different and it wasn't all about the money and a show it was totally about the music. You had such great song writers like Dylan, Cat Stevens, Harry Chapin, Gordon Lightfoot and others in the folk type area. You had the country rock bands like the Allmans, Loggins and Messina, Poco, there was a huge amount of new and diverse music and the only way to hear it was on records or the radio, College campuses had concerts with these bands all the time and it was fun and cheap. Then there was Woodstock OMG. It was a marvelous time to listen . I am sure I am missing a lot of it but that environment was very different than today. I went to the record store almost every week. I listened to FM radio and the great DJ's and on radio concerts all the time, didnt watch much TV since there wasnt much on. Sports were limited on TV if at all. FOr example The NBA was shown on tape delay if at all, The Nfl had one or two local games a week in your city . There was virtually no NHL coverage.
The music had a theme and a message. The music protested the Vietnam War for example ( Crosby Stills and Nash )
I know that was along time ago but it made you want to listen and there wasnt much else to do. NO ONE HAD PHONES

 

[Rexp]

There was a music revolution during the 70's particularly and the explosion of drugs as well. These bands likethe Beatles , Stones, Grateful Dead, Jethro Tull, Almman Brothers etc. were making album music. These albums were head food they were made to listen to on a hi fi and probably stoned. Pink Floyd, The Who were making concept albums. You alkso have to remember that there was no internet. minimal numbers of TV channels, No streaming of anything, FM radio was huge. Rock n Roll was a lifestyle and a huge part of the culture of the day. The muisc hjad huge amounts of influence and popularity. The Beatles were like gods go back and watch the hysteria that happened. It was very different and it wasn't all about the money and a show it was totally about the music. You had such great song writers like Dylan, Cat Stevens, Harry Chapin, Gordon Lightfoot and others in the folk type area. You had the country rock bands like the Allmans, Loggins and Messina, Poco, there was a huge amount of new and diverse music and the only way to hear it was on records or the radio, College campuses had concerts with these bands all the time and it was fun and cheap. Then there was Woodstock OMG. It was a marvelous time to listen . I am sure I am missing a lot of it but that environment was very different than today. I went to the record store almost every week. I listened to FM radio and the great DJ's and on radio concerts all the time, didnt watch much TV since there wasnt much on. Sports were limited on TV if at all. FOr example The NBA was shown on tape delay if at all, The Nfl had one or two local games a week in your city . There was virtually no NHL coverage.
The music had a theme and a message. The music protested the Vietnam War for example ( Crosby Stills and Nash )
I know that was along time ago but it made you want to listen and there wasnt much else to do. NO ONE HAD PHONES

NO ONE HAD DIGITAL

 

[hopkins]

There was a music revolution during the 70's particularly and the explosion of drugs as well. These bands likethe Beatles , Stones, Grateful Dead, Jethro Tull, Almman Brothers etc. were making album music. These albums were head food they were made to listen to on a hi fi and probably stoned. Pink Floyd, The Who were making concept albums. You alkso have to remember that there was no internet. minimal numbers of TV channels, No streaming of anything, FM radio was huge. Rock n Roll was a lifestyle and a huge part of the culture of the day. The muisc hjad huge amounts of influence and popularity. The Beatles were like gods go back and watch the hysteria that happened. It was very different and it wasn't all about the money and a show it was totally about the music. You had such great song writers like Dylan, Cat Stevens, Harry Chapin, Gordon Lightfoot and others in the folk type area. You had the country rock bands like the Allmans, Loggins and Messina, Poco, there was a huge amount of new and diverse music and the only way to hear it was on records or the radio, College campuses had concerts with these bands all the time and it was fun and cheap. Then there was Woodstock OMG. It was a marvelous time to listen . I am sure I am missing a lot of it but that environment was very different than today. I went to the record store almost every week. I listened to FM radio and the great DJ's and on radio concerts all the time, didnt watch much TV since there wasnt much on. Sports were limited on TV if at all. FOr example The NBA was shown on tape delay if at all, The Nfl had one or two local games a week in your city . There was virtually no NHL coverage.
The music had a theme and a message. The music protested the Vietnam War for example ( Crosby Stills and Nash )
I know that was along time ago but it made you want to listen and there wasnt much else to do. NO ONE HAD PHONES

You were hip to all this and now you watch Fox News

But more seriously... Music today still has as much power than it ever had. Look at Iran today. A lot of young musicians - many of them rappers - have become symbols of the protest against the Ayatollahs' regime.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Lee, the world has changed. The Hi Fi Industry so far has not.
I grew up in an era when music was important. It was part of the social construct and the culture. People talked about it all the time. The Beatles and Stones etc. were on Ed Sullivan and on the news. The Beatles made huge movies, it affected the news, fashion, sexuality and hair styles.
Hip Hop has done some of the same yet that took people in another direction. That direction is different and not one of Hi Fi, listening with ones friends to a new album. We used to get so nuts about the release of a new Tull album. We all sat around got high and listened to it until we wore it out. That was fun but it is not what happens today. why?

I would argue this is still very much the case, but likely somewhat invisible to us "old farts".

First example:
To share a recent anecdote I found quite interesting: One of the largest games in the world, Fortnite, has music and artist collaboration as an integrated part of the game experience. Games are larger than movies these days. At a recent "live event" in the game, they paid tribute to a rapper named Juice WRLD through an in-game music video that millions of people watched live. Professional Youtubers sat with tears in their eyes on their live streams, and so did my 12 year old son and his friends as they watched it together.

Before this I had never even heard about Juice WRLD, but apparently he was a pretty famous rapper who died at just 21 years old back in 2019 and both lyrics and opinons that touched many. One of his most popular songs has more than a billion vies on YouTube at the time of writing.

Second example:
Another interesting example is the band Disturbed, and this one I had heard of, they're a band I listen to on a regular basis. They have lots of great songs, but the perhaps most interesting example is a cover they did of Sound of Silence. Vocalist David Draiman did a fantastic rendition of this old classic, and somehow it touched completely new generations - who found new meaning in this new version, interpreting the lyrics based on their own backgrounds, problems and whatever political issues they found challenging. This song was released back in 2015 and also has more than a billion streams on Youtube.

I think both of these are examples of music that became very important to people, and became a part of the social construct and culture. I think this is still happening just as it did back then. Which is great of course!

I don't really know but I do know that there is way to much talk about the gear and way to little noise about the music. Its hard today to find new music, not because it doesnt exist but the Industry and the machine promoting it is very very different and I assume the profit structure isnt the same. Its always about the money. So we get Taylor Swift and Cardi B etc. but these artists don't make people want to buy better Hi Fi in my experience.

I think this is also an interesting statement, I would say it's easier than ever. There are heaps and heaps of great artists both large and small. Also many with great production quality. There are of course so many new artists (some better than others) that the amount alone makes it difficult to navigate, but still. I also think there are still many original and creative artists, and I don't think it's all about the money. Perhaps for the record companies, but that was always the case.

 

[mtemur]

Why is it so hard to accept the idea that many people will find satisfaction with a very simple setup (even a car stereo), even after they have heard high-end systems? Can they tell the difference? Most probably. It's just that the differences they hear are not essential, as they can be for us.

Please don't divert the subject. You earlier said that;
If Rexp's statement - "no one in the real world can hear much difference between an audiophile rig and their car stereo" - refers to "non audiophiles" then it is probably true.
and it has nothing to do with "finding satisfaction with a very simple setup" it is about if there is audible difference between a high end setup and a car stereo or not.

 

[Elliot G.]

You were hip to all this and now you watch Fox News

But more seriously... Music today still has as much power than it ever had. Look at Iran today. A lot of young musicians - many of them rappers - have become symbols of the protest against the Ayatollahs' regime.

sorry its not even close , The world revolved around the music. A few rappers in Iran is not the same its not even close. It may be important but it has no where near the same significance.

 

[Elliot G.]

I would argue this is still very much the case, but likely somewhat invisible to us "old farts".

First example:
To share a recent anecdote I found quite interesting: One of the largest games in the world, Fortnite, has music and artist collaboration as an integrated part of the game experience. Games are larger than movies these days. At a recent "live event" in the game, they paid tribute to a rapper named Juice WRLD through an in-game music video that millions of people watched live. Professional Youtubers sat with tears in their eyes on their live streams, and so did my 12 year old son and his friends as they watched it together.

Before this I had never even heard about Juice WRLD, but apparently he was a pretty famous rapper who died at just 21 years old back in 2019 and both lyrics and opinons that touched many. One of his most popular songs has more than a billion vies on YouTube at the time of writing.

Second example:
Another interesting example is the band Disturbed, and this one I had heard of, they're a band I listen to on a regular basis. They have lots of great songs, but the perhaps most interesting example is a cover they did of Sound of Silence. Vocalist David Draiman did a fantastic rendition of this old classic, and somehow it touched completely new generations - who found new meaning in this new version, interpreting the lyrics based on their own backgrounds, problems and whatever political issues they found challenging. This song was released back in 2015 and also has more than a billion streams on Youtube.

I think both of these are examples of music that became very important to people, and became a part of the social construct and culture. I don't think this is still happening just as it did back then. Which is great of course!



I think this is also an interesting statement, I would say it's easier than ever. There are heaps and heaps of great artists both large and small. Also many with great production quality. There are of course so many new artists (some better than others) that the amount alone makes it difficult to navigate, but still. I also think there are still many original and creative artists, and I don't think it's all about the money. Perhaps for the record companies, but that was always the case.

Sir, you are missing the point. The effect of the music was so much larger and more important than it is today. The music of the 70's changed the world. Changed the culture. Changed Fashion, Changed views on Sex it changed everything and it was for the most part the only game in town.
Your talking about something that may be great but not close to the level of importance or even people knowing about it.
The Beatles were just that f-ing huge. If you werent there you have no idea.

 

[hopkins]

sorry its not even close , The world revolved around the music. A few rappers in Iran is not the same its not even close. It may be important but it has no where near the same significance.

It is just as important, especially when you are getting jailed, tortured, or killed for it.

 

[Elliot G.]

The Beatles - Ed Sullivan Show

A record setting 73 million people tuned in that evening making it one of the seminal moments in television history. Nearly fifty years later, people still remember exactly where they were the night The Beatles stepped onto Ed Sullivan’s stage. In the weeks leading up to the performance, several...

www.edsullivan.com

 

[Elliot G.]

It is just as important, especially when you are getting jailed, tortured, or killed for it.

i did not say its not important but they are not the same nor equivalents in how they changed the world or how many people were influenced.

 

[Elliot G.]

The Beatles - Ed Sullivan Show

A record setting 73 million people tuned in that evening making it one of the seminal moments in television history. Nearly fifty years later, people still remember exactly where they were the night The Beatles stepped onto Ed Sullivan’s stage. In the weeks leading up to the performance, several...

www.edsullivan.com

BTW the US population then was around 200 million. So almost half the country watched this. That is INSANE!

 

[Rexp]

The Beatles - Ed Sullivan Show

A record setting 73 million people tuned in that evening making it one of the seminal moments in television history. Nearly fifty years later, people still remember exactly where they were the night The Beatles stepped onto Ed Sullivan’s stage. In the weeks leading up to the performance, several...

www.edsullivan.com

The fastest selling single by a non American act is by One Direction, not the Beatles...

 

[sigbergaudio]

Sir, you are missing the point. The effect of the music was so much larger and more important than it is today. The music of the 70's changed the world. Changed the culture. Changed Fashion, Changed views on Sex it changed everything and it was for the most part the only game in town.
Your talking about something that may be great but not close to the level of importance or even people knowing about it.
The Beatles were just that f-ing huge. If you there you have no idea.

There are of course many other things in the world today that fights for attention, but I honestly think you are downplaying the importance of music today.

Concerts and festivals gather immense amounts of people today as well. I indeed was not there at for instance Woodstock way back when. But the interwebs claim "it is estimated that nearly 500,000 people were present at Woodstock '69 over the course of the 4-day festival."

The largest rock festival here in tiny Norway, gathered 150,000 people over 4 days last year.

Tomorrowland, an EDM festival in Belgium gathered 400,000 people last year.

There are tons of political bands in all genres. I understand that the worldwide popularity of bands like The Beatles was pretty unique, but we still have huge artists these days, and they certainly affect culture and fashion. An entire generation dressed differently in the 90s due to grunge, and just a few years later due to the techno and rave culture.

I am not trying to downplay what happened in the 60s and 70s. But perhaps consider that the people who are as old as you are now, back then, perhaps didn't see things in the same light as you did, and probably didn't listen to the same music either?

 

[PeterA]

Or … they love those wicked cool retro turntables, just couldn’t afford the supporting kit.

Maybe. They are really cool, and so is the rest of the vintage stuff, and if chosen well, are both cheap and good sounding. The problem may be that you need space, and time to enjoy. They may have different values now.

 

[Elliot G.]

I understand what you are saying and Im not downplaying anything. I was alive then and now and there is no comparison in impact on culture and politics, fashion, etc.. The biggest musical event of the last period of time was Taylor Swift who is huge and a big influence and a culture influencer but she doesnt make people want to buy hi fi like back then.

 

[Al M.]

We just need better methods that work in today's world. This is what I (and I expect many of us) am searching for. There has to be a way. We just haven't figured out the best methods yet. I would love for this thread to become a think tank for all of us (and thank you for your thoughts thus far)!

It's best to meet people where they are. Many young audiophiles seek great sound through headphones. I did too; I listened to music almost exclusively through headphones in my youth in the 1970s just like kids nowadays do, and my first serious stereo in 1990 was headphone based (Stax). There is nothing wrong with that.

It's just this old-fashioned idea that hi-fi needs to be speaker-based that is both unrealistic and wrong. So why waste energy on marketing speaker-based systems to young people if you can concentrate on headphones? Yes, you can pitch speaker-based music as an alternative, but not as an entryway.

 

[hopkins]

I understand what you are saying and Im not downplaying anything. I was alive then and now and there is no comparison in impact on culture and politics, fashion, etc.. The biggest musical event of the last period of time was Taylor Swift who is huge and a big influence and a culture influencer but she doesnt make people want to buy hi fi like back then.

My mother, as a teenager in the 1940s, was a Frank Sinatra fan.

She never became an audiophile, and I doubt too many of the girls screaming at his concerts ever did.

Here she is around that time, with a radio, somwhere around Atlantic City

 

[Lee]

There are three main reasons behind this. The first one is that all commercial recordings have intentionally compressed dynamic range. To put it plainly; The difference between the loudest and the softest parts are less than in real life. If they didn't do that, when you listened at normal / moderate listening levels, the softest parts of the music would be inaudible. So the full dynamic range of the large drum in a marching band simply isn't on the recording.

The second part is that you / we typically don't play loud enough. Real life drums (and many other instruments) are LOUD. We simply don't play that loud at home, and consequently don't get the same experience of physical impact.

The third part (somewhat connected to the second), is that most audio systems don't have the dynamic capacity and dynamic range to faithfully reproduce live instruments at full blast.

I agree with most of this but I would also claim that today in 2024 we are much closer to realistic and natural sound than we were even ten years ago.

 

[Lee]

If we want our industry to continue I believe we need to take an optimistic approach (while realizing our shortcomings). Why did all of us become interested in great audio gear in the first place? The answer is that at some point we experienced a piece of music played on an amazing (to us at the time) system and the "light bulb" went off in our heads! The experience stayed with us and our love of audio was born (for those of us who are even more passionate about music). Other humans can have the same experience and not be moved by it. They will never be consumers of high performance audio. It's human nature. And I believe basic human nature hasn't changed that much.

The challenge is the same as it was decades ago. We're looking for those people who will have those "light bulb" moments (and certainly people with compatible income). I don't know what percentage of society that is, but it's not the masses. Our methods of connecting with those people 3-5 decades ago was different. We just need better methods that work in today's world. This is what I (and I expect many of us) am searching for. There has to be a way. We just haven't figured out the best methods yet. I would love for this thread to become a think tank for all of us (and thank you for your thoughts thus far)!

Bill, great post this is why having a listening room at college can be a great outreach. Make a good two channel system more accessible.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I agree with most of this but I would also claim that today in 2024 we are much closer to realistic and natural sound than we were even ten years ago.

As a manufacturer of somewhat novel products I would of course be happy to agree with that. I wasn't arguing that we weren't, just explaining why a live brass band sounds different in real life than through a sound system.

Most sound systems still lack dynamic capacity though. Which is a consequence of a combination of cost and the fact that most people don't prioritize this I guess.