Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?

I’ve been into music about as long as I can remember. I was deeply into the Beatles (along with much other music) from age 8 to 14.
It was a great time, but I moved on and have kept moving ever since. I wouldn’t want to spend time listening to the White Album or Abbey Road today.
Hold on now! Abbey Road still sounds good and still entertains me even after all these years!

It seems to be a favourite of my guests too.

I have moved on too and wouldn't be satisfied with a steady diet of 60 and 70' rock but what was good then is often still worth listening to today.
 
Our numbers are growing. Welcome.
Maybe why I see a high efficiency low power amp system approach as having potential worth exploring for the more recent generations is just reflective of my experience and is just anecdotal and maybe not applicable. I just considered some of the generational traits I’ve experienced as well as read about. Perhaps gen Y and gen Z aren’t just quite into the same scale of acquisition and not as driven to be obsessed and absorbed by the process of acquiring and improving things continuously quite the same way that we have been.

It took me a while to move across to a high efficiency setup with low power amp after getting a fair bit of exposure to various SET and lower power tube amps over the last 14 years.

Back in 2014 I started auditioning SET and horns for a second system but then after trying out half a dozen speakers over a few years I didn’t finally find what I wanted until 2018.

It took virtually no time at all for the new horns OB SET setup to become the main system for me instead of just an intended other system and left me not really wanting to change gear as much any more.

I’ve now lived with SET and 2 way open baffle and horns full time for the last six years with two different sized OB horns and find I’m unusually content and being seduced and chilling out into listening to what I have and more focussed on exploring more music. It’s quite strange (but good) being content after decades of continuous restlessness with what I have had before.

I have found a stabilising and settling quality with the characteristics of this gear type and the flow state experience with music that it can easily induce as opposed to other gear I’ve had being more sensational and more sonically overt in nature.

Maybe it’s comfort with its simplicity. It might be that the gear has a human scale. It’s certainly intimate in character.

It could just be anecdotal but I thought that it might be a better fit for gen Y and gen Z. Who can tell though. Only time will reveal what will work for others in the future. Design is about change and iterative adaptation… it’s just that maybe it’s not a small change that’s required now but a more fundamental or transformational one.
 
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If the hobby reverses its present course towards “digital” and aims itself once again towards “analogue”, it may have a fighting chance in the future. If not, then bye, bye!

IMO, most digitalophiles aren’t audiophiles! IMO, Taylor Swift (and those like her) don’t produce real music, but merely sound (I'm being generous). Many, not all, use tracks of digital sound from others…. Much of what is digital music is just different artists being mixed with one another ….

Until the masses understand the differences the genuine audiophile is a dying breed. IMO digital music continues to come far short of analogue, and yes I’ve heard what is considered to be the very best of the rich man’s digital (WADAX, Taiko, Aurender, et. al.). I’ve even owned or still own it!

What is considered music today comes far short of what genuinely was music yesterday. No wonder “Old songs now represent 70 percent of the U.S. music market.” Many sense something is missing in the newer junk!


That’s my two cents. Feel free to disagree, but it won’t change the future …
 
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There's actually a great deal of very worthwhile music being created these days - even classical. Lots to discover via streaming.
 
Maybe why I see a high efficiency low power amp system approach as having potential worth exploring for the more recent generations is just reflective of my experience and is just anecdotal and maybe not applicable. I just considered some of the generational traits I’ve experienced as well as read about. Perhaps gen Y and gen Z aren’t just quite into the same scale of acquisition and not as driven to be obsessed and absorbed by the process of acquiring and improving things continuously quite the same way that we have been.

It took me a while to move across to a high efficiency setup with low power amp after getting a fair bit of exposure to various SET and lower power tube amps over the last 14 years.

Back in 2014 I started auditioning SET and horns for a second system but then after trying out half a dozen speakers over a few years I didn’t finally find what I wanted until 2018.

It took virtually no time at all for the new horns OB SET setup to become the main system for me instead of just an intended other system and left me not really wanting to change gear as much any more.

I’ve now lived with SET and 2 way open baffle and horns full time for the last six years with two different sized OB horns and find I’m unusually content and being seduced and chilling out into listening to what I have and more focussed on exploring more music. It’s quite strange (but good) being content after decades of continuous restlessness with what I have had before.

I have found a stabilising and settling quality with the characteristics of this gear type and the flow state experience with music that it can easily induce as opposed to other gear I’ve had being more sensational and more sonically overt in nature.

Maybe it’s comfort with its simplicity. It might be that the gear has a human scale. It’s certainly intimate in character.

It could just be anecdotal but I thought that it might be a better fit for gen Y and gen Z. Who can tell though. Only time will reveal what will work for others in the future. Design is about change and iterative adaptation… it’s just that maybe it’s not a small change that’s required now but a more fundamental or transformational one.
Many of us started our journey in the 60’s, before mobile phones (the girls I knew had their own line and “princess” phone), before cable/satellite TV (before “reruns”). It was a time when you got more for your money; your burger and fries could be delivered to your car by a girl on roller skates, your pizza accompanied by live ragtime. Hi Fi then was analogue, delivered through valve amplification (often SET) and high-efficiency speakers.

The future in hi-fi came through changes in technology, introduced to us by salespeople who highlighted selling points that turned out to be red herrings, differences in measurements that supposedly demonstrated superiority yet never really improved sound quality. After years of going with the flow, buying the latest and greatest, many of us have come to the realisation that we prefer the sound of 50’s-60’s hi-fi, turntables, analogue records, SET’s and vintage horn speakers.

The path most of us have taken to get back to where we started has been expensive and laden with regrets. I wouldn’t want the youth of today to go through the same, but how do you keep the hobby from dying out? They’ll need to experience it as we did/do. I believe owners of Japanese Kissa bars and Devon Turnbull has shown us the way. Instead of leaving your analogue/SETs and vintage speaker rig to an unappreciative relative in your will, donate it all to anyone willing to place it in a listening bar/coffee shop. A kissa.

I believe most of the youth today, even if they knew what it sounds like (most don’t ), couldn’t afford the sort of gear we’re into. In Japan space is expensive. Few can afford high end equipment, fewer still a place large enough to play music for friends. Herein is the reasoning for the Kissa/listening bar. A small commercial venue is rented, the owner installs their vintage hi-fi and vinyl records and sells coffee or drinks to guests to defray the costs. Guests buy drinks and listen quietly out of respect and delight in finding a place where they can get away from the noise and crowds and enjoy a cup of tea while listening to lovely analogue music.

Picture a corner building with wrap around windows with views to the city centre, or park, or river, etc. Inside are sofas and chairs and old rectory tables, potted plants and slow turning fans. Upon entrance you put money on a debit card, used to dispense wine from the on-the-wall self-serve wine dispensers or to purchase tapas or other snacks from sub-contracted catering partners, then at one end, shelves of vinyl jazz and classical records fronted by your donated vintage analogue rig. Big Altec’s, JBL’s or Klipschorn’s will of course catch their attention, then when the music starts …

The key point that must be made before donating your equipment is that they put into writing that they will never insert a digital player or allow a DJ to play modern music on digital-to-vinyl records (then you are just playing what the kids are hearing on their ear buds only louder over speakers. The loudness of talking over the music will then manifest and your system will not impress anyone, total loss). AAA records played one side at a time fully through is the only way ‘else the Kissa goes the way of other “listening bars”.

Sorry, I too often believe what needs to be said is “self-evident”. I am suggesting that if the youth of today hear a great analogue rig, playing decent analogue records (even if unknown to the listener), in a cool environment that enough will be so taken that they build systems of their own and save this hobby from extinction.
 
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An often repeated phrase in this hobby is “It is all about the Music”. Yet oddly enough when a discussion about the long term health of audio the conversation focuses only on the gear and issues surrounding the gear such as cost, manufacturing, marketing etc. The fact is that the gear exists because the Music exists and the way new Music is produced, distributed and consumed is evolving. Currently new Music seems to exist primarily in the digital world, unlike physical media, and does not rely multiple specific components to listen to the music. Instead digital music can be consumed by using two components that have multiple uses besides music playback: the phone and the computer. Those two devices represent the greatest threat to a hobby centered around specific gear whose only purpose is music production. If audio manufacturers cannot figure out a way (and so far they have not) to get future generations to not view the phone and computer as the preferred method for music consumption then evolving economics ensures that the audio industry will go the way of the horse and buggy.
 
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Romanticizing past gear and simpler times can leave a big blind spot over the shortcomings of classic gear. While the midrange sounded great on those old high efficiency, SET powered speakers let’s not forget about the dark highs and tepid bass. The whole point of the 70s was SS amplification and powerful bass to “feel” the beat. Speaker impedance fell from the classic 16 Ohms to 8 Ohms and eventually to 4 Ohms giving the SS gear the advantage. But tube amplifier designers stepped up to the challenge. We have more fantastic sounding amplifier options today than ever. And what I remember of the 80s is a lot of hifi had awful highs that felt like they were drilling a hole in my head- even with vinyl.

Sure, high efficiency horn speakers can sound great but need a ballroom sized room to fit all the pieces if you want something more than weak bass. That was the point of lower efficiency speakers- a smaller package to fit into most people’s living rooms and still get that bass for the beat.

High powered subwoofers are another option to add to those magical panels or moderately size horns but the added complexity of set up requires a skilled and trained technician to first, find the right subs and second, get them properly set up and integrated into the system for that particular room. That is no simple task to be left to the general layperson. Most will give up in frustration.

Good bass takes power- either brute force with high powered amps or through the leverage of large, very large horns. Great highs requires great gear and proper room design.

If reproducing music was easy everyone would be into hifi.
 
An often repeated phrase in this hobby is “It is all about the Music”. Yet oddly enough when a discussion about the long term health of audio the conversation focuses only on the gear and issues surrounding the gear such as cost, manufacturing, marketing etc. The fact is that the gear exists because the Music exists and the way new Music is produced, distributed and consumed is evolving. Currently new Music seems to exist primarily in the digital world, unlike physical media, and does not rely multiple specific components to listen to the music. Instead digital music can be consumed by using two components that have multiple uses besides music playback: the phone and the computer. Those two devices represent the greatest threat to a hobby centered around specific gear whose only purpose is music production. If audio manufacturers cannot figure out a way (and so far they have not) to get future generations to not view the phone and computer as the preferred method for music consumption then evolving economics ensures that the audio industry will go the way of the horse and buggy.
I don't blame audio manufacturers, they cannot perform miracles, it's not their fault that record companies continue to release poor sounding digital releases.
 
s! IMO, Taylor Swift (and those like her) don’t produce real music, but merely sound (I'm being generous).
This is the exact thing my dad told me 40 years ago and I'm sure his dad told him. Somehow we always feel our time was the best. I don't like a lot of the music my kids listen to, but it's real music.

Until the masses understand the differences the genuine audiophile is a dying breed. IMO digital music continues to come far short of analogue, and yes I’ve heard what is considered to be the very best of the rich man’s digital (WADAX, Taiko, Aurender, et. al.). I’ve even owned or still own it!
Everyone has formats they love. I have an LP setup that I rarely turn on. If being an "audiophile" requires the love of analogue, this hobby is already dead.

This hobby is no different than others. It has to adapt to today's world or go away.
 
An often repeated phrase in this hobby is “It is all about the Music”. Yet oddly enough when a discussion about the long term health of audio the conversation focuses only on the gear and issues surrounding the gear such as cost, manufacturing, marketing etc. The fact is that the gear exists because the Music exists and the way new Music is produced, distributed and consumed is evolving. Currently new Music seems to exist primarily in the digital world, unlike physical media, and does not rely multiple specific components to listen to the music. Instead digital music can be consumed by using two components that have multiple uses besides music playback: the phone and the computer. Those two devices represent the greatest threat to a hobby centered around specific gear whose only purpose is music production. If audio manufacturers cannot figure out a way (and so far they have not) to get future generations to not view the phone and computer as the preferred method for music consumption then evolving economics ensures that the audio industry will go the way of the horse and buggy.
Very excellent points.
 
Romanticizing past gear and simpler times can leave a big blind spot over the shortcomings of classic gear. While the midrange sounded great on those old high efficiency, SET powered speakers let’s not forget about the dark highs and tepid bass. The whole point of the 70s was SS amplification and powerful bass to “feel” the beat. Speaker impedance fell from the classic 16 Ohms to 8 Ohms and eventually to 4 Ohms giving the SS gear the advantage. But tube amplifier designers stepped up to the challenge. We have more fantastic sounding amplifier options today than ever. And what I remember of the 80s is a lot of hifi had awful highs that felt like they were drilling a hole in my head- even with vinyl.

Sure, high efficiency horn speakers can sound great but need a ballroom sized room to fit all the pieces if you want something more than weak bass. That was the point of lower efficiency speakers- a smaller package to fit into most people’s living rooms and still get that bass for the beat.

High powered subwoofers are another option to add to those magical panels or moderately size horns but the added complexity of set up requires a skilled and trained technician to first, find the right subs and second, get them properly set up and integrated into the system for that particular room. That is no simple task to be left to the general layperson. Most will give up in frustration.

Good bass takes power- either brute force with high powered amps or through the leverage of large, very large horns. Great highs requires great gear and proper room design.

If reproducing music was easy everyone would be into hifi.
You drank the Cool Aid. There is nothing wrong with the bass from my Altec’s. There is no audible advantage to lower impedance speakers (quite the opposite).

The only issue with high-sens vintage speakers was their size, and that fault was probably not an issue until manufacturers started claiming it was. Manufacturers made smaller speaker arrays to meet the created need. The smaller speakers created a problem however, they were inefficient and needed much more power to push as much air.

Every three db loss in sensitivity requires twice the power to get the same volume. If your new smaller speakers have 88 db sens (won’t go into ohms yet) and the speakers they replace 104db (my Altec’s compression drivers), the power of the amplification must be doubled five times. So if I was listening to my Altec’s with a 7 watt class A 300B SET amplifier then to drive the new speakers to the same volume I will need an amplifier with an output of 225 watts.

Power with valves is expensive, transistor (semiconductor) amplification is much cheaper (albeit less real-sounding). But then there is the impedance issue. Many of the new speakers drop in impedance at different frequencies, some down to two ohms (or less, remember Apogee). Although the best speakers for SET’s have a fairly flat impedance curve, valves can handle impedance changes in those that don’t without too much trouble.

Semiconductors can’t. Each halving of the speakers’ impedance causes the transistor amplifier to double its power output. The speaker impedance drops from 8 ohms to 4 ohms and the 225 watt transistor amplifier suddenly throws out 450 watts. Dropping to 2 ohms, 900 watts! That is why so many transistor amps blew up. Manufacturers designed more rugged high power amplifiers to meet the need, but even Krells blew from time to time (Apogee).

The point Tao made (and I fully support) is that many of us have returned to triodes and horns after a lifetime of upgrades through the changes in audio that occurred since the 50’s, including low sensitity speakers and megawatt transistor amps, digitally synthesised music, etc. etc. We are well aware that playing records on an old Gerrard 301 through SETs and vintage horns is not without issues , it is just that we prefer the sound from such over what else has come. You can argue your points on why you don’t agree (yet), but it makes no sense to those of us who have bought into and experienced it all and in the end decided which we prefer (regardless of the “shortcomings”).
 
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With my 91dB speakers I typically use about 1-2 Watts for my high 80s dB listening using 520 Watts into 4 Ohm amplifiers. That feels loud to me. I cranked it up real loud once to experience that body slamming bass just the other day. I hit roughly 70 Watt peaks- just to see if I could recreate that Blues Bar overwhelming bass. Almost, but already too loud for me. As much as I enjoy live music, I don’t care for the super loud venues.

I don’t disagree about SET Amps. For certain types of music nothing is finer. I need something that can fill in a wider range of music.

Kind of like my twin turbo V8’s. I don’t race or speed these days but I still enjoy the kick when I put my foot in it.
 
If the hobby reverses its present course towards “digital” and aims itself once again towards “analogue”, it may have a fighting chance in the future. If not, then bye, bye!

IMO, most digitalophiles aren’t audiophiles!

For me getting the most out of the music genres I enjoy listening to via the format for which that music is mostly available is what matters. If there is a prescribed set of rules regarding genres/formats/equipment that have to be agreed to before one embarks on this so called "hobby" and to be labeled an "audiophile" I didn't get the memo. So if my equipment format and music genre choices make or don't make me an audiophile in someone else's view that is irrelevant to me. My musical enjoyment is the relevant matter. And,, when I can help others increase their enjoyment in ways that they are comfortable I will do so without the label baggage.
 
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To my opinion, the declining interest in high-end audio among younger generations reflects broader shifts in how we consume music. Today's listeners primarily use smartphones and wireless earbuds, prioritizing convenience over audio quality. This shift ties directly to streaming services replacing physical media, making music more of a background activity than a focused listening experience.

Cultural and economic factors reinforce this trend. Younger people often live in smaller spaces and face financial constraints, making expensive audio setups impractical. Additionally, the social aspect of music has moved from communal listening on quality speakers to sharing playlists online and listening individually through earbuds.

This change in audio preferences isn't just about technology – it reflects a fundamental shift in how younger generations experience music: as a constant, portable companion rather than a dedicated listening activity requiring premium equipment.
 
Picture a corner building with wrap around windows with views to the city centre, or park, or river, etc. Inside are sofas and chairs and old rectory tables, potted plants and slow turning fans. Upon entrance you put money on a debit card, used to dispense wine from the on-the-wall self-serve wine dispensers or to purchase tapas or other snacks from sub-contracted catering partners, then at one end, shelves of vinyl jazz and classical records fronted by your donated vintage analogue rig.
...now picture it six months later. Door locked. Paper on the window. "For Lease" sign on the window.

More likely:
Small shoe-box sized place down an alley-way or third-floor retail space. Holds 6-8 people. Expensive "keeper bottles" of whiskey. Run as a passion project by a divorced guy with a day job. That's been my experience with these places.
 
You drank the Cool Aid. There is nothing wrong with the bass from my Altec’s. There is no audible advantage to lower impedance speakers (quite the opposite).

The only issue with high-sens vintage speakers was their size, and that fault was probably not an issue until manufacturers started claiming it was. Manufacturers made smaller speaker arrays to meet the created need. The smaller speakers created a problem however, they were inefficient and needed much more power to push as much air.

Every three db loss in sensitivity requires twice the power to get the same volume. If your new smaller speakers have 88 db sens (won’t go into ohms yet) and the speakers they replace 104db (my Altec’s compression drivers), the power of the amplification must be doubled five times. So if I was listening to my Altec’s with a 7 watt class A 300B SET amplifier then to drive the new speakers to the same volume I will need an amplifier with an output of 225 watts.

Power with valves is expensive, transistor (semiconductor) amplification is much cheaper (albeit less real-sounding). But then there is the impedance issue. Many of the new speakers drop in impedance at different frequencies, some down to two ohms (or less, remember Apogee). Although the best speakers for SET’s have a fairly flat impedance curve, valves can handle impedance changes in those that don’t without too much trouble.

Semiconductors can’t. Each halving of the speakers’ impedance causes the transistor amplifier to double its power output. The speaker impedance drops from 8 ohms to 4 ohms and the 225 watt transistor amplifier suddenly throws out 450 watts. Dropping to 2 ohms, 900 watts! That is why so many transistor amps blew up. Manufacturers designed more rugged high power amplifiers to meet the need, but even Krells blew from time to time (Apogee).

The point Tao made (and I fully support) is that many of us have returned to triodes and horns after a lifetime of upgrades through the changes in audio that occurred since the 50’s, including low sensitity speakers and megawatt transistor amps, digitally synthesised music, etc. etc. We are well aware that playing records on an old Gerrard 301 through SETs and vintage horns is not without issues , it is just that we prefer the sound from such over what else has come. You can argue your points on why you don’t agree (yet), but it makes no sense to those of us who have bought into and experienced it all and in the end decided which we prefer (regardless of the “shortcomings”).
Yes, I drank the Kool Aid. I designed and built my system to my liking considering all aspects, ie. Planars, Electrostats, Cone, ported, unported, subs, no subs, tube amps, ss amps, tube pre, ss pre, etc. And today I wouldn't change a thing on my system.

But this comment of yours regarding low impedance speakers and power requirements. I have to disagree. Look at Ohms law: A 4 Ohm speaker (in general terms) needs 10 amps to make 25 Watts. A 16 Ohm speaker needs 20 amps to make 25 Watts. Or since tube amps are better at making voltage rather than current, it takes 10 Volts to get 25 Watts with a 4 Ohm speaker or 20 Volts for a 16 Ohm speaker. Which has the advantage here? I'd say since 16 Ohm speakers are pretty much nonexistent today- its the 4 Ohm speaker. But this is a generalization. Speakers are electric motors and combined with their crossover networks, impedance measurements are not so simple and vary with frequency. It is quite the challenge for speaker designers and amplifier designers. Don't forget the speaker cables themselves have influence as well.

The first rule of design engineering is: If you can't fix it, feature it. Low impedance speakers became a reason to build high current amplifiers. Not sure which came first. High current amplifiers are big and heavy and bulky- exactly how a high end hifi system should look. Who wants some tiny little amp with one big bottle standing up? :cool:
 
With my 91dB speakers I typically use about 1-2 Watts for my high 80s dB listening using 520 Watts into 4 Ohm amplifiers. That feels loud to me. I cranked it up real loud once to experience that body slamming bass just the other day. I hit roughly 70 Watt peaks- just to see if I could recreate that Blues Bar overwhelming bass. Almost, but already too loud for me. As much as I enjoy live music, I don’t care for the super loud venues.

I don’t disagree about SET Amps. For certain types of music nothing is finer. I need something that can fill in a wider range of music.

Kind of like my twin turbo V8’s. I don’t race or speed these days but I still enjoy the kick when I put my foot in it.
Wow, a major contributor to global warming.
 
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Wow, a major contributor to global warming.
Hardly. I buy less than 200 gallons of gasoline per year. Retired. Operate my cars maybe 3 times per week. Thanks to Covid didn’t do the traveling we planned to do. Now I don’t care. Rather listen to music.
 
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