Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?

[gleeds]

Well, first off, my horns have an open back so the walls of the room room become the flange of the horn. Extension goes down to about 30 Hz in my room.

The sound stage is huge compared to my old Magico and solid state system. The entire front wall for orchestra music, big band, and choral. Jazz Trios and string Quartet or solo piano are of course smaller in scale, but the sound is still very expensive and room filling.

Imaging is very natural, unlike what I was used to before which was slightly outlined and pinpoint until I oriented my speakers straight ahead and opened up the sound for a more natural presentation. The location of various instruments on the sound stage is very precise and layered and separated, but I do not “see“ images of the musicians. Just the locations of the origins of the sounds like when listening to live music. From these locations energy and sound expand rapidly into the room. Imaging is more about scale and location as it is with live music.

Yes, the rest of the system matters for all of this. The quality and impact of the bass depends a lot on which cartridge I use as does extension and overall resolution. There is nothing that is flat or two dimensional about the presentation in my room.

Now I have not had other corner horn speakers here for comparison, and I’ve only really heard six or seven good vintage speaker systems in various settings.

I don't see why there would be a negative correlation between elaborate staging and importance and quality of music.

Just look at Pink Floyd and Queen, for example.

Gents, I am a big fan of tubes and horns, even ones in the corner I'm curious though what this has to do with the topic of this thread?

Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?​

 

[TonyW]

Gents, I am a bi

I am a big fan of tubes and horns. I',m just curious what this has to do with this thread

Gents, I am a big fan of tubes and horns, even ones in the corner I'm curious though what this has to do with the topic of this thread?

Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?​

We digressed. Enthusiasm for this hobby of ours.

 

[Al M.]

Enthusiasm for this hobby of ours.

Good answer.

Don't ever expect a thread on the interwebs to strictly stay on topic. It's human nature that it doesn't. Just go with the flow, I would say.

 

[PeterA]

I don't see why there would be a negative correlation between elaborate staging and importance and quality of music.

Just look at Pink Floyd and Queen, for example.

I don’t see the negative correlation either and did not try to suggest it in my post. I’m just saying that it’s about the whole spectacle just as it is with Pink Floyd live shows or Alice Cooper. In other words, it’s more than just about the music. Taylor Swift puts on a show for her Swifty fans.

I doubt people close their eyes when attending her live shows, not even audio files. Are there any Swifty’s in the WBF forum sphere?

 

[PeterA]

Gents, I am a big fan of tubes and horns, even ones in the corner I'm curious though what this has to do with the topic of this thread?

Is Audiophilia a Dying Hobby or Just in Need of a Tune-Up?​

Sometimes threads get diverted slightly by the discussion. I was simply responding to Tony W’s direct question about vintage horns and sound staging and imaging.

I suppose if the future is trying to convert the Head Fi crowd, we could ask them about sound staging and imaging or would they tell us that all of that is simply in our heads?

I never liked headphone listening, and never considered it because the presentation does not resemble what I hear from live music.

Maybe the hobby needs to tune out to a presentation that is more natural.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Are there any Swifty’s in the WBF forum sphere?

I don't know what a "Swifty" is, but I like two of Taylor Swift's songs.

 

[Doc76]

I don't know what a "Swifty" is, but I like two of Taylor Swift's songs.

A Swifty, or Swiftyophile is one who enjoys the sound of TS’s digital. It’s one step lower than a Digitalophile.

Does your dog howl when you play Swifties? You should too.

 

[ssfas]

I agree the challenge of passing on our hobby and passion to the next generation is a daunting task. In the next few weeks, we'll be publishing an exciting article that will be featured here and elsewhere across the performance audio community.

**The Next Generation of High-End Audio Designers**

This piece will shine a light on innovative designers who are creating remarkable high-end audio systems at all price points. Among them are some of today's leading talents, including Mads Buchartd, Nemanja Cokic, Angus Leung, and Tetsuaki Aoyagi, also known as Aki San of DS Audio in their thirties. The aim is to illustrate that the energy and passion for great audio design is alive and well among young innovators charting new territory.

While we may not expect renowned designers like Dan D'Agostino, Jeff Nelson, or Carl Marchisotto to focus their energies on cultivating the next generation of audiophiles, I am confident that these younger business owners will step up to the plate. We will also publish a parallel piece highlighting vibrant young high-end audio retailers, like Shawn Matthews of New Life Audio and Colin King of Gestalt, both in their thirties, who are infusing the market with fresh ideas and remarkable passion. Additionally, we will look at emerging reviewers who are making their mark in this space.

In conclusion, it’s crucial for us to support the next generation—both as consumers and industry members. Giving back in a hobby and profession that has brought us so much joy is we can all get behind.

Bucharest apparently make decent speakers, but their USP was a direct distribution model about 10 years ago when it did not really exist for speakers. The look quite nice, but there are plenty of other options and they aren't cheaper than many good products sold through more traditional routes.

I've not heard of Westminster Labs and see they are not distributed in the UK (he lists a distributor, but that distributor does not refer to WL). I see Mr Cheung used the name because he spent time in the UK studying as an architect. Westminster is where in the UK we keep our politicians, not scientists in their labs, but maybe he thought it sounded good.

After developing a unique alloy called "Autria" whilst an architect student, as you do, sold in a USB cable the frequency response of which benefitted from having hand-polished conductors (quite an achievement for a cable sending an encoded digital signal) he went back to Hong Kong and pursued his career as an architect until deciding to sell hifi.

To be honest, it just looks like regular hifi designed by an architect with a flair for branding, with an emphasis on machined aluminium and carbon fibre and sharp angles. It may be a perfectly decent product, I'll probably never get to know, and it's only for the financially well endowed.

What is of concern is that if you look at their website for any information about technology they might have developed to progress consumer audio, all they offer is some 13th century mystic poetry from Afghanistan. If you're honest, that's just pretentious nonsense.

My son is one of the next generation. He's a product designer. His first job was on a lighting and audio product that was groundbreaking, and won a main global Red Dot Award. It sells for about $500 and cost about $8,000,000 to develop, driven by hardened industry professionals. So excuse me for thinking that you need lots of money to do something really new.

I must respectably take the diametrically opposite view to your conclusion. No doubt a high end audio market will persist for some time, but it's not a charity. Consumers will make consumer decisions, some brands will thrive and others die, and I care not if they're run by someone aged 30 or 80.

 

[AudioHR]

I always assumed that it is as much about seeing her live as it is about hearing her live. If it were just about the music, she wouldn’t need all the costume changes and backup dancers and pyrotechnics. It must be fabulous.

Part of the show for sure! I doubt that the swiftie cult are there to just watch the production there is something about her music that is engaging people too. Popular music tends to have a visual component to it. Elvis the pelvis broke a few norm for America's middle class, the Beatles those haircuts, the bad boy Stones, etc etc. It's entertainment!

 

[gleeds]

Bucharest apparently make decent speakers, but their USP was a direct distribution model about 10 years ago when it did not really exist for speakers. The look quite nice, but there are plenty of other options and they aren't cheaper than many good products sold through more traditional routes.

I've not heard of Westminster Labs and see they are not distributed in the UK (he lists a distributor, but that distributor does not refer to WL). I see Mr Cheung used the name because he spent time in the UK studying as an architect. Westminster is where in the UK we keep our politicians, not scientists in their labs, but maybe he thought it sounded good.

After developing a unique alloy called "Autria" whilst an architect student, as you do, sold in a USB cable the frequency response of which benefitted from having hand-polished conductors (quite an achievement for a cable sending an encoded digital signal) he went back to Hong Kong and pursued his career as an architect until deciding to sell hifi.

To be honest, it just looks like regular hifi designed by an architect with a flair for branding, with an emphasis on machined aluminium and carbon fibre and sharp angles. It may be a perfectly decent product, I'll probably never get to know, and it's only for the financially well endowed.

What is of concern is that if you look at their website for any information about technology they might have developed to progress consumer audio, all they offer is some 13th century mystic poetry from Afghanistan. If you're honest, that's just pretentious nonsense.

My son is one of the next generation. He's a product designer. His first job was on a lighting and audio product that was groundbreaking, and won a main global Red Dot Award. It sells for about $500 and cost about $8,000,000 to develop, driven by hardened industry professionals. So excuse me for thinking that you need lots of money to do something really new.

I must respectably take the diametrically opposite view to your conclusion. No doubt a high end audio market will persist for some time, but it's not a charity. Consumers will make consumer decisions, some brands will thrive and others die, and I care not if they're run by someone aged 30 or 80.

Contrary to be contrary, I suppose suit yourself, Sir. This was not a comment about age. I am in my late 60s and have been involved with high-end audio personally and professionally for 50 years and will continue to be for as long as I can contribute.

Are you misspelling these designers' names to make a point or just being wildly disrespectful?
Your point about needing millions to do something innovative is complete bullshit. Ars Machinae, a turntable designer we represent, won a Red Dot Dot design award and was granted a patent on the use of tungsten power in a record weight that is quite remarkable. The total amount spent to develop their turntable and win those prestigious awards is under $100k.

I can assure you that WestminsterLab's designs are innovative, as evidenced by the dozens of owners on this forum who have placed their hard-earned dollars down to purchase them. Politely said, before you dismiss a product, you might want to do actual research next time instead of skimming a website.

Younger generations prefer smaller brands and single-brand solutions instead of mixing and matching. They also gravitate toward direct-to-consumer channels instead of stuffy stores filled with stodgy salespeople and too many choices that must be mixed and matched. I'm curious: Do you have any professional marketing or brand credentials? Have you ever invested money to take a product from concept to commercial viability? I'm guessing not.

And yes, firms run by 80-year-olds will surely die - just as I will when my time comes. If there is to be a future for our hobby, it will be a new generation of audio pioneers who find a way to adapt their product and expose a new generation to the joys of high-fidelity music in the home. Indeed, I don't have all the answers on this or any other subject, but I respect your right to courtesy and respectfully disagree.

 

[Al Stewart]

Are there any Swifty’s in the WBF forum sphere?

I own some Taylor Swift music. She is talented. I think she has achieved her superstar status because she has sustaining songwriting talent, knows her audience, has expanded it, and puts on a great show. She has managed to be highly relevant in the popular music world for the last 18 years. That is extremely difficult to do. But I’m not a “Swifty”.

Swifties have Deadhead devotion.

 

[SoundMann]

If being an "audiophile" requires the love of analogue, this hobby is already dead.

Yet high end reproduction of analog sources still serve as the reference in SOTA playback.

Those who claim to be serious about the best possible sound sources, and insist on limiting themselves digital recordings and playback will always draw scutiny from those of us that know better.

 

[bryans]

Yet high end reproduction of analog sources still serve as the reference in SOTA playback.

Those who claim to be serious about the best possible sound sources, and insist on limiting themselves digital recordings and playback will always draw scutiny from those of us that know better.

No you mean those who think they know better. You trying to define what source someone needs to listen to is ridiculous. Seems like for your listening preference you need analog.

Oh and by the way I own both digital and analog.

 

[treitz3]

Please, let's not get into yet another digital versus vinyl debate. Enjoy both.

Tom

 

[facten]

Those who claim to be serious about the best possible sound sources, and insist on limiting themselves digital recordings and playback will always draw scutiny from those of us that know better

This air of superiority attitude is what is wrong with this "hobby" and doesn't do anything to attract people to it. No one is accountable for their format choices or music preferences to "the know better crowd" and therefore its scrutiny is meaningless. You do you and let others do likewise.

 

[bryans]

Please, let's not get into yet another digital versus vinyl debate. Enjoy both.

Tom

Totally agree. Not a digital vs vinyl debate. This is one person trying to tell another person they need to listen to a certain format. That is the crazy part. Music is for enjoyment and whatever format one wants to use is AOK.

 

[Ampexed]

Music is for enjoyment unless it is Diana Krall. In that case it is cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[Al M.]

This air of superiority attitude is what is wrong with this "hobby" and doesn't do anything to attract people to it. No one is accountable for their format choices or music preferences to "the know better crowd" and therefore its scrutiny is meaningless. You do you and let others do likewise.

It's the same air of superiority attitude when it comes to speaker systems vs. headphones. Yes, speaker systems can have advantages in soundstage, scale and physical, visceral impact, but headphones have advantages too. It can be easier to hear certain details, you are not dependent on a good sized room and good room acoustics *) (both are a huge factor!) and you can get great sound quality for a comparably moderate price. Yet for some people the only "high-end" that counts is speaker systems.

Personally I very much prefer my speaker system as well, but I would never dismiss a serious headphone based effort. If someone achieves a great result which satisfies them that way, all power to them.

One more thing: I have never heard headphone reproduction sound as wrong as I have heard many speaker systems sound wrong. Just plain wrong.

But hey, grumpy old men like to complain that young people listen to their music not the way they do.

____________________

*) And let's be real, many people put expensive gear in a shitty room with shitty set-up.

 

[Al M.]

Music is for enjoyment unless it is Diana Krall. In that case it is cruel and unusual punishment.

Hehe, I agree. Others feel differently, that's fine too.

 

[PYP]

I don't know what a "Swifty" is, but I like two of Taylor Swift's songs.

I think if you don't have any of her merch, then you are not a Swifty. But that is just being snarky. If you read about how many young folks feel about her music and the comfort it has brought them, then it starts to make sense that she is as popular and successful as she is.

IMO, young folks would have no interest in the kind of debates found on many of these threads. They "know" we are out of touch just as we knew our parents were. I wonder how many industry professionals have done focus groups with millennials to figure out what they want to enjoy their music.