Is Live, Unamplified Music the Correct Reference for the Sound of our Audio Systems?

[morricab]

I am not sure. Acoustics and sound system performance 'at your seat' can be patchy indeed. I went to some Flamenco last weekend, at a decent theatre, and we were a bit close to the left side channel speaker column. It was thus a bit too loud / shrieking, and certainly not without distortion. This is live music performance I am referring to, not studio conditions.

So there has been plenty of live performances I have heard with some elements of distortion. Female voice seems very hard to amplify really well for example.

One thing that IS apparent on live music is often the huge dynamics, there is a lot of energy and power reserves in the drums and bass for example. That is difficult to portray in home sized speakers in general. But linearity, lack of distortion, smoothness of tone, that can IMO be better in a good domestic system. So within it's 'envelope' I do think a good domestic system has strong points even compared to a lot of (amplified) live music.

I am not commenting on the quality of the sound so much as the liveness of it. I have heard some horrible live amplified concerts as well.
Btw, I heard a fantastic Flamenco concert back in 2017 in Granada...now that was some powerful stuff!

 

[Robh3606]

My absolute sound definitely is a live show. Procal Harum up close! Acoustic or amplified doesn't matter it's all good.

Rob

 

[Lee]

I believe we are getting quite close to live performances at times. A good ensemble recording on the Wilson WAMMs sounds very realistic. When you solve for the time coherence issues with driver alignment, it gets spooky real.

We are no longer worlds apart from the real thing, imho.

 

[Robh3606]

"We are no longer worlds apart from the real thing, imho."

I can see where you are coming from but for me it is more in my HT set-up. As good as stereo can be sometimes nothing catches the envelopment experenced at a live event better than a well set-up HT system

Rob

 

[Lee]

"We are no longer worlds apart from the real thing, imho."

I can see where you are coming from but for me it is more in my HT set-up. As good as stereo can be sometimes nothing catches the envelopment experenced at a live event better than a well set-up HT system

Rob

I see where you are coming from as well if you mean a very high quality surround sound system. However, reference level two channel is entirely realistic for music performance occurring in front of you. It's a matter of a lot of things but imaging, room tone, accurate timbres, etc. make for very natural sound recreation.

 

[Kefas]

Very very interesting thread.
This one point stereo, 2 channel recording, done with only one stereo microphone, thus completely phase coherent, is the most natural and musical sounding recording I have. It is really as if the band is placed between the speakers. Highly recommended.

Link to : One mic recording

 

[PeterA]

Very very interesting thread.
This one point stereo, 2 channel recording, done with only one stereo microphone, thus completely phase coherent, is the most natural and musical sounding recording I have. It is really as if the band is placed between the speakers. Highly recommended.

Link to : One mic recording

I like the balance as heard through my computer. Why do you think there are not more recordings done with just one stereo microphone? These results seem excellent.

 

[Bruce B]

Why do you think there are not more recordings done with just one stereo microphone? These results seem excellent.

Because a lot of artists just aren't good enough! They rely too much on Pro Tools, AutoTune, Cut/Paste/Overdubs and mastering engineers to make them sound passable.....

 

[Kefas]

Because a lot of artists just aren't good enough! They rely too much on Pro Tools, AutoTune, Cut/Paste/Overdubs and mastering engineers to make them sound passable.....

I like the balance as heard through my computer. Why do you think there are not more recordings done with just one stereo microphone? These results seem excellent.

Very very interesting thread.
This one point stereo, 2 channel recording, done with only one stereo microphone, thus completely phase coherent, is the most natural and musical sounding recording I have. It is really as if the band is placed between the speakers. Highly recommended.

Link to : One mic recording

I'm afraid that is only partly true. Lots of good bands out there but somehow the big labels think we can't live with anything but perfection. So they have the singer do a whole bunch of takes and repair every little note that might not be perfectly in tune.
But indeed this way of recording needs good musicians. It is one take and that's it, but oh boy does the sound quality profit from this approach.

 

[MtnHam]

I recently visited the home of a '30 something' audiophile who perhaps represents the the next wave, and listened to his system, which had almost no semblance to what members of WBF would find familiar. Nor did his music. It was based on small DIY speakers, subwoofers, a computer source, DSP, and class D amps and a lot of gear from the pro audio world, in which he is involved. I'm guessing <$10K invested. The music he played was not unamplified, nor was it familiar. Nonetheless, even at age 75, and an audiophile for over 60 years, I was blown away. My toes were immediately tapping; I was very impressed. It was like being at a live performance of a type I would probably never attend!

Thus, I have to think the old Absolute Sound concept is out dated! To think otherwise is only correct if unamplified music is all you listen to!

Correction- The Outlaw amp is Class A/B

 

[Kefas]

Interesting, but what recordings did he play for you?

 

[MtnHam]

Interesting, but what recordings did he play for you?

Artist/Album/Track
Gidge/Autumn Bells/Dusk
Swarms/Nostalgia/I Gave You Everything
Swarms/Nostalgia/Separate Sense VIP
Klute/No One's Listening Anymore/Torrential Pain

 

[MtnHam]

Here are the details of my friend's system:

Source: Custom built win10 tower
USB interface: Schiit Etir
Crossover: MiniDSP 88D
D/A: Lynx Aurora 8
Amp: Outlaw 7140 7ch 225w
Mains: 2x LXmini, built from DIY kit
Helper subs: 2x DIY 1cu ft 10" Dayton Audio
Sub subs: 2x Rythmik L12 in source/sink configuration
Room Correction: Dirac

If any of his kit is familiar to WBF readers, I would like to hear your comments.

 

[Folsom]

Most of it. The speakers are surprisingly good. But I haven’t heard them throw a decent sized image. It seemed small when I heard them. Overall I’d expect a somewhat plastic sound to that stereo, a different type of timbre lens than valves.

The real question is whether it makes you sit and listen or it just checks off a lot of impressive boxes on the list.

 

[NorthStar]

Sounds like a good deal for the money. And it's a multichannel audio (7.2-ch) system right?
No turntables? ...Tape decks?

 

[MtnHam]

Correct- pure digital!

 

[NorthStar]

Less time to setup and fool around, good.
Plus you get the chance to look onscreen what the curves look like; I like gentle and smooth curves.

 

[Kefas]

Very very interesting thread.
This one point stereo, 2 channel recording, done with only one stereo microphone, thus completely phase coherent, is the most natural and musical sounding recording I have. It is really as if the band is placed between the speakers. Highly recommended.

Link to : One mic recording

I like the balance as heard through my computer. Why do you think there are not more recordings done with just one stereo microphone? These results seem excellent.

Because a lot of artists just aren't good enough! They rely too much on Pro Tools, AutoTune, Cut/Paste/Overdubs and mastering engineers to make them sound passable.....

Check the new One Mic, it's live and it's incredible, superb sound stage, completely phase coherent....wow!

 

[Ron Resnick]

KeithR invited me to join him to his first chamber music performance at Walt Disney Concert Hall. It was visually
discordant to see merely three or four instrument players huddled together in the center of a large stage in the middle of a giant concert hall.








We liked musically the violin + cello + piano performance the best. It sounded more interesting to us than an all-string trio or all-string quartet.

The tone of the string instruments was warm and lush and burnished and golden and sweet. I heard nothing whatsoever bright or thin or fatiguing or irritating. This was not (to me or to Keith) the sound of Lyra Atlas on Soulution electronics driving Magico Q7.

 

[bonzo75]

Using Magico as a reference, chamber music is indeed warm and lush.

Lyra can be made to sound that way by being neutral and letting the recordings flow through SETs and horns. Koetsu might be warm and lush but it is not the sound of chamber music either.

Soulution... The only time I have liked it, it was the pre sandwiched between an Allnic phono and an Allnic set amp. We replaced the Allnic pre with it to great effect. But yes Lyra through Soulution into Magico sounds like a nightmare to reproduce chamber...

Stats with valves, on the other hand, reproduces this brilliantly.