Innovative is still a dealer - will showcase the new CD player this or next month. And there is a new Spectral dealer in LA now, http://theaudiosalon.com/ - web site doesn't show it yet, also carry Magico.
BTW, interesting thread
Is Wilson losing their marketing edge?
- Thread starter caesar
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Innovative is still a dealer - will showcase the new CD player this or next month. And there is a new Spectral dealer in LA now, http://theaudiosalon.com/ - web site doesn't show it yet, also carry Magico.
BTW, interesting thread
Microstrip, I trust your observations about Wilson being accurate. In fact, I trust your observations much more than those of Valin, Harley, etc., since you are in the hobby to enjoy great music and spend good times with friends, and don't have any other incentives. But marketing is not an exact science or the search for absolute truth. Sure claims need to have a basis in reality. Cary could not claim to be accurate (although they could make an argument to be "emotionally true"). Instead, great marketing is about creating a differentiated position in the market that sticks in the consumer mind to make their life easier and helps the company sell more stuff. So let's assume that both Magico and Wilson can have an equal claim as being an accurate speaker. At this point, marketing becomes even more important. If someone can capture the space in the consumer mind like Google became synonymous with internet searching, xerox and copying, and Kleenex with tissues, it gives their competitors that much more to overcome.
I actually went to the Wilson site, and saw some you tube videos called "Conversations with Dave". (Some of these have only 1300+ hits, so they are not a big hit themselves.) Not once did he mention accuracy. However, in one of the videos he talks about his speakers striving to reproduce the fast transients and harmonic richness of live music, but that doesn't seem to be the primary marketing goal either. Instead, he talks about "authenticity". Being authentic may have worked many years ago when Wilson was one of the first super-expensive speakers and they had to justify the cost by showing the worker rubbing down the speaker. But the times have changed. There are many other worthy contenders. Furthermore, that term is just too damn abstract. Are magicos, YG's, focals, vandersteens, avalons, Nolas, Sonus fabers, etc., less authentic? Are their workers dumber or less caring than Wilson workers? I personally doubt it.
Wilson's other problem with "authenticity" in addition to being too abstract of a term, is that "authenticity" is just too internally focused. It's not really about Wilson! It's about the customer!!!!!!!! What Wilson needs to do is to create a differentiated position in the over-populated high end speaker segment that would help eliminate confusion and clearly speak to the customer.
Well, perhaps they could write some questionable prose about emotional truth. And argument? I can't imagine anything they could come up with in support of "emotionally true" that I'd call an argument.
Tim
Caesar,
Quoted from the Wilson Audio site : "Bringing home the emotional impact of live music through two-channel reproduction has been the organizing passion of Wilson Audio since it's inception more than three decades ago. Applying the same focus and expertise to multi-channel theater systems was simply the natural extension of that passion. "
Quoted from the Wilson Audio site : "Bringing home the emotional impact of live music through two-channel reproduction has been the organizing passion of Wilson Audio since it's inception more than three decades ago. Applying the same focus and expertise to multi-channel theater systems was simply the natural extension of that passion. "
Microstrip,
I just hit their site, and can't find the quote you posted. If it is true, then it should be clearly and constantly communicated, not be hidden somewhere on some obscure page on their site. Like I said above, in the consumer mind, Google = search, volvo=safety, kleenex=tissue. If Wilson wants to be "the live music speaker", they need to make sure everyone knows about it. It really should be the first words out David Wilson's mouth in his videos, out of Debby's mouth in her posts, part of their logo, etc. And they definitely should not show with Spectral, as someone with less than stellar recording will hear "all the warts" instead of emulating a live show. If YG is bringing real musicians to talk about their speakers while Wilson mumbles and fumbles, YG could become "the live music speaker".
About 20 years ago there was a very influential article about Pioneering Advantage in the Journal of Marketing Research by Golder and Tellis. The point of the article is that most companies that are pioneers, such as Wilson in the high priced speaker segment, eventually lose their first mover advantage. Markets evolve, things change, new competitors with exciting products arrive. Sure, a great product is important. However, equally important is the vision of the market and marketing skills to bring that vision to life. Companies that are pioneers are frequently overtaken by better marketers. Sony may be the better innovator, but Panasonic leads in many categories that Sony has pioneered. Microsoft was never the innovator or first at anything, but trounced many of their competitors ...Other examples abound.
Wilson had the vision to become the pioneer in their segment, but there is A LOT of competition now. Playing a few sublime Peter McGrath recordings at a show 2 or 3 times a year is not a strong enough marketing strategy when going up against Magico/ Valin PR machine. Wilson needs to hone their vision of the market, differentiate themselves, and better communicate what they are about. They are making a big mistake, and they could get passed by those who are hungrier, have better vision, and better marketing skills.
Caesar,
You can use advanced google to find it easily. Take any part of of the sentence and choose the domain wilsonaudio.com.
I really consider Wilson Audio marketing strategy an excellent one and surely do not agree with your appreciation. But knowing about other people opinions is one of the reasons we read internet posts - and sometimes we can diverge.
Not sure this is a survey. and is run by a well known Wilson aficionado. color me less than impressed.
[i apologize if this comes off a little crass btw---i'm just saying that a true survey of opinion would be better than an editor who comes up with a false "sabremetrics" dichotomy of audio]
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Caesar,
You can use advanced google to find it easily. Take any part of of the sentence and choose the domain wilsonaudio.com.
I really consider Wilson Audio marketing strategy an excellent one and surely do not agree with your appreciation. But knowing about other people opinions is one of the reasons we read internet posts - and sometimes we can diverge.
Microstrip, I do think we are on different wave lengths on this: if you need to perform an advanced Google search of the company's web site to figure out the marketing message, I would argue it is not being communicated very effectively. Instead of us being bible scholars parsing every verse, the company should clearly, consistently, and effectively communicate their brand promise across various media and across channels.
Caesar, in this thread our members have focused on Magico and Wilson with respect to the marketing and image issues you raised. What about some of the other high end speaker manufacturers? Can we identify what are their respective marketing campaigns and images? Can we extrapolate from that data anything that might shed additional light on both Magico and Wilson?
Ron,
This industry is very small, as we all know. To be in the game, as a manufacturer, you need a good product, a few folks with a reputation who own your product, some word of mouth, and good customer service. Most people “try it and buy it”. Exclusivity in an already tiny market seems to be a selling point, rather than something that hurts sales – despite the obvious risks of the obscure parts availability, gear breaking down, founder dying, etc.
Barriers to entry are fairly low. People can just build something in their garage, rent a truck to take it to a show, get some publicity, and sell directly via internet. They can charge pretty much whatever they want. The more the better to help differentiate themselves from their pedestrian competitors, as mentioned in a post above. There is little focus on good branding and marketing. But having a good brand helps overcome some of these barriers by keeping the competition away from you and keeps your customers from switching.
In most cases, the designer is the brand. From a business strategy perspective, this is a very weak position to be in, as you are as good as your latest product. Take an example of Nola and VTL. Valin, in his RMAF blog on the avguide site, did a nasty hit job on both of these. He slammed the new $60K VTL Siegfried as a step back and he suggested that the newly released $60K Nola speaker needs a new cabinet for the bass to sound “right”. This will be very hard to overcome. I am sure that Manley and Carl M did not go to a nice steak dinner to celebrate Valin’s commentary, but a good brand will be able to better sustain and overcome such a hit on a reputation than a guy working in his garage.
For Wilson Audio, David Wilson is a big part of the brand. He is the authority. He has helped the industry grow up. He is an authentic super-audiophile. On the website, he talks about being “authentic”. But his reasons are weak. Wilson speakers are not authentic because of the videos of guys rubbing down the speakers (which is justification of the high price) or because it is an expensive luxury item. Their competitors have the same factors at play. IMO, people buy a Wilson because they become more authentic audiophiles with a Wilson speaker than with another brand. It’s an identity play that others could not easily pull off. Wilson should just get some Chutzpah and say that you will be a more real audiophile than your friend if you own their speaker. (If Alon Wolf had the gravitas of David Wilson, he would say it. He “hired” Valin as his “PR rep”, but Valin is not David Wilson.)
Of course, the reasons for poor marketing and business strategy is that most folks in audio do not understand economics and are not business professionals. That’s why I think it’s better to look at examples of successful brand building across other industries. A great brand coupled with a great organizational culture will outlive the founders - just Google the list of the most valuable brands for many examples.
I have heard spectral driving avalon on 2 shop/demo occasions , 360 monos driving isis and a smaller amp driving eidolon diamonds, i like avalon but i find spectral dry and boring , i have heard magico driven by soulution , again good solid state but not more to my ears this was at a show though.
Why is everybody so concened as what TAS thinks , better trust your own ears , i find sterophile and soundstage / ultra audio better magazines , the combination of measurements and commentary by JA for example is helpfull and interesting.
I heard magico on zanden and that was very nice , i think its more of an amplifier thing
Does " TAS" independantly measure amps or speakers i dont even know , maybe someone can enlighten me
In terms off build quality i would give the nod to the wilson alexandria and the kharma exquisite, i suspect that those models eliminated cabinet resonances the most, oh i forgot rockport as there is no representation here , i dont know why the high end business in holland doesnt step into rockport by the way,hint hint
If John atkinson is reading this i want to ask stereophile to list the speaker/amp review section by review date again , i cant look up anything by date /history.
henk jan
Why is everybody so concened as what TAS thinks , better trust your own ears , i find sterophile and soundstage / ultra audio better magazines , the combination of measurements and commentary by JA for example is helpfull and interesting.
I heard magico on zanden and that was very nice , i think its more of an amplifier thing
Does " TAS" independantly measure amps or speakers i dont even know , maybe someone can enlighten me
In terms off build quality i would give the nod to the wilson alexandria and the kharma exquisite, i suspect that those models eliminated cabinet resonances the most, oh i forgot rockport as there is no representation here , i dont know why the high end business in holland doesnt step into rockport by the way,hint hint
If John atkinson is reading this i want to ask stereophile to list the speaker/amp review section by review date again , i cant look up anything by date /history.
henk jan
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First my bias... I'm a Wilson Sasha owner, traded in a pair of WP7s on them. Also like conrad-johnson tubes so am running their GAT pre and LP140 monos.
Not that it bothered me before but the new Sashas have eliminated any bass "bump" reported in the WPs. You don't hear it mentioned in reviews any longer. And, J. Valin seems now to like the Sashas... he had many nice things to say about them in his 2012 CES high end speaker report. So, all is right with the Wilson world again. Of course it was terrific to begin with.
Not that it bothered me before but the new Sashas have eliminated any bass "bump" reported in the WPs. You don't hear it mentioned in reviews any longer. And, J. Valin seems now to like the Sashas... he had many nice things to say about them in his 2012 CES high end speaker report. So, all is right with the Wilson world again. Of course it was terrific to begin with.
Agree. With a little more help, they may sound like a Magico
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" so, to each his own.
But we all know Valin can be "bought" and has been numerous, numerous times. He is the classic "speaker of the month guy" (and as a result has ZERO credibility with me). If some other speaker manufacturer wants the Magico position at the top of the mountain, all they have to do is "buy it".
If you look at the top right of a review category "landing page" at www.stereophile.com, you can sort the category by date the review was posted to the site, date the review was originally published in the magazine, and alphabetically by title.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
So since I started this thread, Wilson came out with an uber-expensive speaker, and Magico followed with their uber-expensive speaker. Interestingly, years ago air lines would get into bitter price wars and try to drive each other out of business. But recently they have been staying away from price wars and instead have been following each other in price hikes. When someone decided to start charging for bags, the others followed. But this still didn't stop American Airlines from declaring bankrupcy. You have to give both Wilson and Magico credit for not fighting on price, but following each other. But again, this is not a good business strategy, as it can be easily copied as in the airlines example. And Wilson and Magico are not the only players in the uber-expensive speaker market... there are a lot of choices.
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