It’s All a Preference

[NorthStar]

Well, that is truly bizarre, because if I plug even my TV into the same circuit as the fridge I can see a glitch every time the fridge turns on, and if I turn the volume up enough on the home theater I can hear a faint buzz if the fridge is turned on. Humbuster and power conditioning seem to lower it, but only unplugging the fridge completely eliminates it. Most of us do have air conditioning on a separate circuit, fortunately, or I suspect it would do even more damage.

My stereo room has a dedicated line with none of the above problems.

-----Same here.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Are you calling each loop controlled by a separate breaker a circuit? Because it sounds like you think your whole house is one circuit (which it,is, in a sense, but then again, so is your town).

Tim

 

[rbbert]

Are you calling each loop controlled by a separate breaker a circuit? Because it sounds like you think your whole house is one circuit (which it,is, in a sense, but then again, so is your town).

Tim

Yes, each loop controlled by a separate breaker is a "circuit". All the circuits on the same board appear to have some electrical "cross-talk" with regard to surges and noise, though. My home theater is on its own circuit, which mostly isolates it from the fridge, but they are on the same board, so it's not complete, although with a Humbuster and surge protector it's pretty good. The AC compressor has its own board, and it appears not to interfere with any other circuits. Likewise, my stereo room has its own board, and the isolation there is even better.

 

[jkeny]

You're right. I was absolutely off the plot. I thought you were talking about audible distortions, not something slowly eating away at my well-being on a subconscious level. I spent about 2 hours playing along with Spotify last night. My subconscious must be reeling!

Tim

Good man, Tim, you're getting the idea now!

I reckon you are so disturbed on the subconscious level that you don't even realise that "blind testing" means turning off all the lights in the house

 

[jkeny]

http://journals.lww.com/thehearingj...ning_gives_edge_in_auditory_processing.3.aspx

In the sensory sciences, we're often focused on the afferent system. In hearing, afferent processing is the systematic progression of neural impulses from cochlea to auditory nerve to midbrain and thalamic structures, and finally to auditory cortex. However, there's an extremely extensive network of reverse connections as well.When a given sound has some importance attached to it, such as the sound of your baby crying, the efferent system, originating in the cortex, strengthens the lower levels' acuity to this sound, all the way to the hair cells in the cochlea. This happens via augmenting stimulus features and increasing the signal-to-noise ratio until the neurons on your auditory system become finely tuned to that particular sound. This cognitive-sensory interaction enables a mother to instantly pick out her baby's cry from among all the other babies fussing at day care.

So maybe it is all preference but not necessarily just concious preference! Also there seems to be a biologically overlaid preference for consonant rather than disconsonant sounds

 

[JackD201]

Yes, each loop controlled by a separate breaker is a "circuit". All the circuits on the same board appear to have some electrical "cross-talk" with regard to surges and noise, though. My home theater is on its own circuit, which mostly isolates it from the fridge, but they are on the same board, so it's not complete, although with a Humbuster and surge protector it's pretty good. The AC compressor has its own board, and it appears not to interfere with any other circuits. Likewise, my stereo room has its own board, and the isolation there is even better.

Doesn't it make you envious of those twenty something bachelors who've got nothing in their fridges other than a bottle of ketchup and that last beer nobody wants to drink?

 

[theshade]

I may have remembered the thread incorrectly but the speaker "I" listed in the graphs in the Sound reproduction book probably isn't the Infinity Primus 36# cause they seem to be different from the measurements posted by Dr. Olive in avsforum. I may be wrong though. If that were the Primus then I guess I won't have to dream about Revels since the "I" is in a statistical tie concerning subjective preference rating.

I hope that I won't open a can of worms since I would refer to a figure consisting of 4 good speakers costing $300, $700 and $2000 bookshelves along with a $1800 floorstander in Chapter 18 of Dr. Toole's book. I really would like to know what they are especially the $1800 floorstander wherein Dr. Toole said that it was "an example of a very well balanced design, some may call it the point of diminishing returns."

I know that Harman posts more information on measurements than most other brands. But I also hope that all Harman brands post information regarding the measurements of their speakers in their websites to make customers better equipped to choose speakers. They do post data for the JBL pro line. Eg. the 6332 monitors and the 43## monitors. But those speakers cost a lot here in the Philippines. Their new cheaper monitors 23## series has no measurements whatsoever. To someone who is sold on their ideas from the book and numerous papers, this is somewhat a letdown and faith alone in the brand isn't enough to be able to choose whether to get the speaker with no measurements.

I hope that the above does not sound harsh as I really am an ardent follower of the knowledge imparted by Harman. In fact I read all the posts I can find in forums by Dr. Olive, Patrick Hart etc. along with the Sound Reproduction book and the numerous papers.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Yes, each loop controlled by a separate breaker is a "circuit". All the circuits on the same board appear to have some electrical "cross-talk" with regard to surges and noise, though. My home theater is on its own circuit, which mostly isolates it from the fridge, but they are on the same board, so it's not complete, although with a Humbuster and surge protector it's pretty good. The AC compressor has its own board, and it appears not to interfere with any other circuits. Likewise, my stereo room has its own board, and the isolation there is even better.

Then my computer and all my audio are on separate circuits, even though they sit next to each other. And while my computer is my source, it is galvanically isolated. Allis quiet. Even through headphones. No hum busters, no conditioners.

Tim

 

[rbbert]

Then my computer and all my audio are on separate circuits, even though they sit next to each other. And while my computer is my source, it is galvanically isolated. Allis quiet. Even through headphones. No hum busters, no conditioners.

Tim

If those circuits sit on the same breaker board, I didn't think that was actually possible. Have you actually put your ear (or a microphone) right next to the speaker (with nothing playing), volume at max, and listened (or recorded the sound) with and without the refrigerator motor and/or AC compressor running, and especially as they turn on or off?

 

[rbbert]

Maybe if the circuits involved are physically very separate (12" or more?) on the board there is less cross-talk?

Except for the turn-on spike these things are more than 100 dB below the level of the music, but they are still there.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

If those circuits sit on the same breaker board, I didn't think that was actually possible. Have you actually put your ear (or a microphone) right next to the speaker (with nothing playing), volume at max, and listened (or recorded the sound) with and without the refrigerator motor and/or AC compressor running, and especially as they turn on or off?

Well, I said "all is quiet," not there is no noise whatsoever on the line. I listen with headphones a lot. I have a pair of Etymotic IEMs, among others. The speakers really couldn't get any closer to my ears. But have I cranked my system to full volume to see if there is noise back there for me to worry about, even though it is inaudible under pretty extreme (high listening levels, no music playing) circumstances? No. Why would I do that? To stir my Audiophile paranioa? To listen to the noise?

Tim

 

[rbbert]

Well, I said "all is quiet," not there is no noise whatsoever on the line. I listen with headphones a lot. I have a pair of Etymotic IEMs, among others. The speakers really couldn't get any closer to my ears. But have I cranked my system to full volume to see if there is noise back there for me to worry about, even though it is inaudible under pretty extreme (high listening levels, no music playing) circumstances? No. Why would I do that? To stir my Audiophile paranioa? To listen to the noise?

Tim

I guess it's a question of whether measurable noise affects the ultimate sound, similar to discssions in other topics here

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I guess it's a question of whether measurable noise affects the ultimate sound, similar to discssions in other topics here

Discussions in the unserious zone, IMO. If I can't hear it, it doesn't affect the sound. How can it be any other way? Odd that the "affects the ultimate sound" arguments usually come from the "trust your ears" crowd. You could cut the irony with a knife.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

I may have remembered the thread incorrectly but the speaker "I" listed in the graphs in the Sound reproduction book probably isn't the Infinity Primus 36# cause they seem to be different from the measurements posted by Dr. Olive in avsforum. I may be wrong though. If that were the Primus then I guess I won't have to dream about Revels since the "I" is in a statistical tie concerning subjective preference rating.

I hope that I won't open a can of worms since I would refer to a figure consisting of 4 good speakers costing $300, $700 and $2000 bookshelves along with a $1800 floorstander in Chapter 18 of Dr. Toole's book. I really would like to know what they are especially the $1800 floorstander wherein Dr. Toole said that it was "an example of a very well balanced design, some may call it the point of diminishing returns."

I know that Harman posts more information on measurements than most other brands. But I also hope that all Harman brands post information regarding the measurements of their speakers in their websites to make customers better equipped to choose speakers. They do post data for the JBL pro line. Eg. the 6332 monitors and the 43## monitors. But those speakers cost a lot here in the Philippines. Their new cheaper monitors 23## series has no measurements whatsoever. To someone who is sold on their ideas from the book and numerous papers, this is somewhat a letdown and faith alone in the brand isn't enough to be able to choose whether to get the speaker with no measurements.

I hope that the above does not sound harsh as I really am an ardent follower of the knowledge imparted by Harman. In fact I read all the posts I can find in forums by Dr. Olive, Patrick Hart etc. along with the Sound Reproduction book and the numerous papers.

I'm sure Hans at JBL High Street can help you out with current products and Lin Gomez can help you out with vintage pro JBLs. A lot of stuff is not put up on the sites because the sheer volume will cause way to much clutter. A lot of this stuff is available by request.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I may have remembered the thread incorrectly but the speaker "I" listed in the graphs in the Sound reproduction book probably isn't the Infinity Primus 36# cause they seem to be different from the measurements posted by Dr. Olive in avsforum. I may be wrong though. If that were the Primus then I guess I won't have to dream about Revels since the "I" is in a statistical tie concerning subjective preference rating.

I hope that I won't open a can of worms since I would refer to a figure consisting of 4 good speakers costing $300, $700 and $2000 bookshelves along with a $1800 floorstander in Chapter 18 of Dr. Toole's book. I really would like to know what they are especially the $1800 floorstander wherein Dr. Toole said that it was "an example of a very well balanced design, some may call it the point of diminishing returns."

I know that Harman posts more information on measurements than most other brands. But I also hope that all Harman brands post information regarding the measurements of their speakers in their websites to make customers better equipped to choose speakers. They do post data for the JBL pro line. Eg. the 6332 monitors and the 43## monitors. But those speakers cost a lot here in the Philippines. Their new cheaper monitors 23## series has no measurements whatsoever. To someone who is sold on their ideas from the book and numerous papers, this is somewhat a letdown and faith alone in the brand isn't enough to be able to choose whether to get the speaker with no measurements.

I hope that the above does not sound harsh as I really am an ardent follower of the knowledge imparted by Harman. In fact I read all the posts I can find in forums by Dr. Olive, Patrick Hart etc. along with the Sound Reproduction book and the numerous papers.

If you're a fan of Harman's work, as I am, you know they design all their speaker lines with the same frequency response objectives -- flat and even. They vary by other attributes -- JBLs for example, are very efficient, loud, dynamic. I'm sure the Revels are more extended. Perhaps a tad flatter, though the Infinitys are very good. I expect they are a bit too good, and the business people looking at the performance the engineers have achieved are reluctant to give you enough detail to conclude that you don't really need to pop for the much more expensive Revels. Given good, appropriate amplification, the Infinitys should be very, very good.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

Discussions in the unserious zone, IMO. If I can't hear it, it doesn't affect the sound. How can it be any other way? Odd that the "affects the ultimate sound" arguments usually come from the "trust your ears" crowd. You could cut the irony with a knife.

Tim

Whether you like it or not whatever you're hearing is affected by something or other. That is unless you have faith that what you have is totally neutral and distortion free. You can't cut the irony of that with a chainsaw.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Whether you like it or not whatever you're hearing is affected by something or other. That is unless you have faith that what you have is totally neutral and distortion free. You can't cut the irony of that with a chainsaw.

Of coure what I'm hearing is affected by something or other. But it it's what I'm hearing, its an audible something or other.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

So what was post #485 about then? Just another jab at what you call the "trust your ears types"?

 

[NorthStar]

I may have remembered the thread incorrectly but the speaker "I" listed in the graphs in the Sound reproduction book probably isn't the Infinity Primus 36# cause they seem to be different from the measurements posted by Dr. Olive in avsforum. I may be wrong though. If that were the Primus then I guess I won't have to dream about Revels since the "I" is in a statistical tie concerning subjective preference rating.

I hope that I won't open a can of worms since I would refer to a figure consisting of 4 good speakers costing $300, $700 and $2000 bookshelves along with a $1800 floorstander in Chapter 18 of Dr. Toole's book. I really would like to know what they are especially the $1800 floorstander wherein Dr. Toole said that it was "an example of a very well balanced design, some may call it the point of diminishing returns."

I know that Harman posts more information on measurements than most other brands. But I also hope that all Harman brands post information regarding the measurements of their speakers in their websites to make customers better equipped to choose speakers. They do post data for the JBL pro line. Eg. the 6332 monitors and the 43## monitors. But those speakers cost a lot here in the Philippines. Their new cheaper monitors 23## series has no measurements whatsoever. To someone who is sold on their ideas from the book and numerous papers, this is somewhat a letdown and faith alone in the brand isn't enough to be able to choose whether to get the speaker with no measurements.

I hope that the above does not sound harsh as I really am an ardent follower of the knowledge imparted by Harman. In fact I read all the posts I can find in forums by Dr. Olive, Patrick Hart etc. along with the Sound Reproduction book and the numerous papers.

-----Hey, great first post shade! :b ...And Welcome to WBF!

...Bob

 

[rbbert]

Discussions in the unserious zone, IMO. If I can't hear it, it doesn't affect the sound. How can it be any other way? Odd that the "affects the ultimate sound" arguments usually come from the "trust your ears" crowd. You could cut the irony with a knife.

Tim

Well, it's both audible under certain conditions as well as measurable. How do you know you can't hear it if you haven't listened both ways (with the noises eliminated and without)? For someone who posts so authoritatively you are remarkably unsophisticated and unknowledgable about audio.