It gets better over time

[Kingrex]

I've sat in front of a couple stereos, people would call very well tuned. Next to no distortion. They end up playing the music fairly loud. You know, the old, It's low distortion, I can play it much louder than you can play yours. After sitting in front of those systems, I may have to go a week or two before I can listen again. High volume is high volume. I don't care the source. Or how technically low the distortion levels are.

 

[PYP]

Depends on how long and loud you play or if you play digital, i prefer longer listening sessions at medium levels. 5- 6 hours analog, 2-3 if i play digital.

what is your digital setup?

 

[Kingrex]

what is your digital setup?

This sounds like a setup. The ollll, your digital is the problem. If you would just spend $100,000 on your digital chain, you could listen for 2 more hours.

 

[PYP]

This sounds like a setup. The ollll, your digital is the problem. If you would just spend $100,000 on your digital chain, you could listen for 2 more hours.

no, no, no, not my intention at all -- it might be more like $18k (see my signature line below).

I have a basic belief that says our hearing is different and is sensitive to different kinds of distortion. All speakers, all gear has distortion. We pick the kind the kind of distortion we prefer, therefore, I couldn't prescribe a "solution" for someone's ears if I was so disposed, which I am not.

It is just my curiosity. See my photo to the left for proof (that's me sitting on a mono amp).

 

[Lagonda]

what is your digital setup?

Different stand alone CD players, top loaded Victor, Krell , Primare and Oppo. No streaming. Used a Schiit Yggy, for a while too. I prefer analog but own many thousands CD with music i dont have on vinyl.

 

[Kingrex]

no, no, no, not my intention at all -- it might be more like $18k (see my signature line below).

Now I am setting you up. Are you saying it take $18,000 to be able to enjoy digital?
How much would you have to spend to enjoy analog?
This is starting to sound like one of the many iterations of threads titled along the Dying Hobby premise.

 

[Iving]

All I did was walk away from my stereo for a week or two being busy with other things. Low and behold, when I returned and sat in front of my stereo, I was shocked how good it sounded.

I'm not saying that breaking in isn't a real thing. I'm simply acknowledging I have become aware how much my perceptions can change by simply introducing absence.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes - I have experienced this.

It is experience. Which is to say - it may be entirely Subjective (as OP said "how much my perceptions can change"). That said, the effect could be "real" in the sense that something has changed in the system's infrastructure. A soup or a stew tastes better after a few days in the fridge or larder. That's such a widespread understanding by so many people in so many places over so many centuries that it's probably not all "imagination". Something has changed. The broth has matured. It would be difficult to measure the effect at the chemical level. In the case of an audio system I shouldn't be surprised if it weren't all to do with mitigation of electrical turbulence - just as water runs through a river less turbulently having run that course previously - erosion will tend to have this effect if nothing else. All speculation ... although I have a D.Phil. in Psychology I am not trained in the physical sciences.

It's well known that audio systems sound better on Sundays - because noise on the AC line is lower. I would rule out things like that before embracing more ambitious explanations. You know - Occam's razor.

 

[Kingrex]

Yes - I have experienced this.

It is experience. Which is to say - it may be entirely Subjective (as OP said "how much my perceptions can change"). That said, the effect could be "real" in the sense that something has changed in the system's infrastructure. A soup or a stew tastes better after a few days in the fridge or larder. That's such a widespread understanding by so many people in so many places over so many centuries that it's probably not all "imagination". Something has changed. The broth has matured. It would be difficult to measure the effect at the chemical level. In the case of an audio system I shouldn't be surprised if it weren't all to do with mitigation of electrical turbulence - just as water runs through a river less turbulently having run that course previously - erosion will tend to have this effect if nothing else. All speculation ... although I have a D.Phil. in Psychology I am not trained in the physical sciences.

It's well known that audio systems sound better on Sundays - because noise on the AC line is lower. I would rule out things like that before embracing more ambitious explanations. You know - Occam's razor.

I don't see a way to compare chemically measurable changes in food over time with a stereo sitting for 2 weeks un-played. I don't believe the electronics have electrically changed so much it has sonically changed.

What's worse, reading into what your saying, I need to play my stereo once, then walk away for 2 weeks for it to play well again. Electrically. That's disappointing. No one told me that when I bought a stereo.

I would think the stereo would play better when consistently used as it would maybe be more thermally stable. Not really true as its totally cold after 8 hours. The point being, I'm bummed I can only play my stereo once every two2 weeks for it to perform at its best.

What I believe is going on is a absence of listening allows my mind to reset. I don't remember what I was experiencing 2 weeks ago. A fresh set of ears says it sounds great. As I pile day after day onto the listening, I become more critical every day. I listen for details like a "Audiophile". I get caught up in the nervosa and stop enjoying the music as I more and more listen to the equipment. This is probably a root psychological attribute of music listening that creates a situation where certain people have a harder time enjoying music than other people. In short, it may be that Audiophiles don't really enjoy music. They enjoy gear and finding faults in the gear to validate changing or buying new stuff. Its somewhat a condemnation of threads that question if Audiophilia is dying. If what I am saying were the case, wouldn't it be best for consumers to not be audiophiles? Unless the goal it to be a part of a hobby of buying expensive stuff for no other reason than you want to buy expensive stuff.

 

[Johan K]

Sometimes your ears need a little rest too. I often abstain from music listening every second day. The levels of fluid/ minerals in your ears also affect your hearing. My hearing is best when i am slightly dehydrated and drink one beer right before a listening session. A banana contains a fair amount of potassium and also seems to have a enhancing effect. Ok, now you can make fun of me !

Jesus man… you just made my day - I crack myself up here. LOL…!!! Minerals and bananas.. -the only food you need as an audiophile… MOOHAHAHA !!!

 

[PYP]

Now I am setting you up. Are you saying it take $18,000 to be able to enjoy digital?
How much would you have to spend to enjoy analog?
This is starting to sound like one of the many iterations of threads titled along the Dying Hobby premise.

I'll bite. I love my Grimm MU2 streamer/DAC. Best digital I have had by a large measure. There have been many times when I've read about folks who prefer vinyl but who want digital too. Some of them have more than sufficient budget for an MU2. The little bubble above my head usually reads: Just get the MU2 and be happy. It may be a lot less than you are used to spending, but this is a perfect entry point. And might be end game for your particular needs.

But, no, one doesn't need to spend that much to enjoy digital. I don't have sufficient current, relevant experience with analog to make a guess. I do think they both need fussing with, each in its own way, in order to get the most out of one's investment.

 

[ssfas]

Well, each day I play it, the more and more critical I become. Now I'm thinking of swapping stuff out. I am more aware the issues.

Having heard some lectures at Oxford University about how our endocrine systems and nervous system change depending on the time of day and our exposure to natural light, I refuse to believe any differences in my perception in recorded sound that are more than about 10 seconds apart. Days apart? - I'm more likely to believe in leprechauns and elves.

Burn-in is not something I've read much about in the UK because it seems to be considered to a large extent audiophoolery. Some engineers appreciate that some capacitors out of the box need a few minutes or perhaps an hour or so to stabilise, and if you are concerned about burn-in, just leave a new component running overnight before listening to it.

Over any long period it's purely psychoacoustic. If a manufacturer or retailer says something will take 100+ or 200+ hours to burn in, I'd just move on to something else. If it takes that long it's not fit for purpose or more likely it's a pre-emptive excuse if you're not impressed by the product.

 

[Kingrex]

Having heard some lectures at Oxford University about how our endocrine systems and nervous system change depending on the time of day and our exposure to natural light, I refuse to believe any differences in my perception in recorded sound that are more than about 10 seconds apart. Days apart? - I'm more likely to believe in leprechauns and elves.

Burn-in is not something I've read much about in the UK because it seems to be considered to a large extent audiophoolery. Some engineers appreciate that some capacitors out of the box need a few minutes or perhaps an hour or so to stabilise, and if you are concerned about burn-in, just leave a new component running overnight before listening to it.

Over any long period it's purely psychoacoustic. If a manufacturer or retailer says something will take 100+ or 200+ hours to burn in, I'd just move on to something else. If it takes that long it's not fit for purpose or more likely it's a pre-emptive excuse if you're not impressed by the product.

let's get you on the QSA thread!!!!!!!!

 

[Kingrex]

I'll bite. I love my Grimm MU2 streamer/DAC. Best digital I have had by a large measure. There have been many times when I've read about folks who prefer vinyl but who want digital too. Some of them have more than sufficient budget for an MU2. The little bubble above my head usually reads: Just get the MU2 and be happy. It may be a lot less than you are used to spending, but this is a perfect entry point. And might be end game for your particular needs.

But, no, one doesn't need to spend that much to enjoy digital. I don't have sufficient current, relevant experience with analog to make a guess. I do think they both need fussing with, each in its own way, in order to get the most out of one's investment.

I wanted a Grimm. I want to try the AES to my DAC. I appreciate the way it handles a music file more like a CD rather than a computer. Less noise. Grimm is way out of my league. I felt crazy spending the $5000 or so at the time on my server. Back then, everyone was crapping on servers saying a laptop is fine because the DAC is isolated by the USB cable and the signal is reclocked by the USB card. I went through a few iterations of my server. Quite a few upgrades as technology progressed. Hardware was always a small change. Software has by far been the biggest sonic change when updating my server. I also went through a few DAC. When I hit the Mojo Audio I knew it was time to stop. Especially when I had a MSB at my house that was more than double the price and did not sound as good.

 

[Kingrex]

Over any long period it's purely psychoacoustic. If a manufacturer or retailer says something will take 100+ or 200+ hours to burn in, I'd just move on to something else. If it takes that long it's not fit for purpose or more likely it's a pre-emptive excuse if you're not impressed by the product.

I do more and more question how much is psychoacoustic.

Bummer for me I am saying the more I listen the more I seem to assess and notice issues. The QSA crowd is saying the more they listen, the more they feel its better. But, they also seem to walk up the ladder. A $300 fuse turns into a $1000 fuse turns into a $3000 fuse or more.

 

[ssfas]

let's get you on the QSA thread!!!!!!!!

I've already said my piece about QSA, and how he boasts that his Molecular Magic Machine makes your rice cooker make better rice !!!
I've linked his YouTube channel and his little burn-in white box that does the magic and makes him a fortune every time he switches it on.

steven tsang yick man

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

www.youtube.com

If people want to pay $10,000 for that, well more fool them.
The only thing that matters is that the QSA 13A fuses they sell into the UK market are subject to legal regulation. The UK distributor assumed me they were just rebadged and treated Bussman fuses, which do comply, except that one look at them and they look like fake Bussman fuses. I pointed this out to them and they never replied.

I wanted a Grimm. I want to try the AES to my DAC. I appreciate the way it handles a music file more like a CD rather than a computer. Less noise. Grimm is way out of my league. I felt crazy spending the $5000 or so at the time on my server. Back then, everyone was crapping on servers saying a laptop is fine because the DAC is isolated by the USB cable and the signal is reclocked by the USB card. I went through a few iterations of my server. Quite a few upgrades as technology progressed. Hardware was always a small change. Software has by far been the biggest sonic change when updating my server. I also went through a few DAC. When I hit the Mojo Audio I knew it was time to stop. Especially when I had a MSB at my house that was more than double the price and did not sound as good.

I emailed with the Mojo Audio guy and he was like a dog with a bone. Just couldn't shake him off. In the UK I'd have probably been better off looking at Audio Note, which are similar.

In 15 years of streaming I've never used a laptop, just low power streamers doing as little power as possible. All the heavy loading processing is done on the network, to which the streamer is connected by fibre optic. The streamer is Innuos, which thankfully has HQ Player endpoint, all the other stuff is regular cheap consumer stuff (MacMini, QNAP, Buffalo).

There is general consensus that HQ Player elevates the Holo May DAC to extraordinary levels of performance when used in NOS mode and sent DSD512 or DSD256 from HQ Player. It works for me. I only do DSD256 because I use a MacMini M1 that was lying around unused.

The MU2 is by all accounts and exceptional 1-box solution, but having separate streamer and DAC and a usb cable between them is hardly suffering. I have a very posh UP-OCC silver USB cable.

NEUB-1020-1 Neotech USB 2.0 cable, UP-OCC Silver, 1 metre | HIFICollective

NEUB-1020-1 Neotech USB 2.0 cable, UP-OCC Silver, 1 metre

www.hificollective.co.uk

 

[treitz3]

@Lagonda - Don't tell anybody, but I sat and listened to digital for 14 hours the other day (the family was out of town). That HAS GOT to mark my longest listening session ever. It was wonderful!!!

At this point, with my rig? Both are equally enjoyable. When it's hard to pull yourself out of the listening chair, I guess you have hit that rare plateau of sonic bliss.

Tom

 

[treitz3]

Now I am setting you up. Are you saying it take $18,000 to be able to enjoy digital?
How much would you have to spend to enjoy analog?
This is starting to sound like one of the many iterations of threads titled along the Dying Hobby premise.

It could. It could very well surpass that by quite a bit. But it may not and by a substantial margin, depending on what your individual threshold/system/listening habits are.

Getting rid of noise you currently don't even know you are hearing is your biggest leap forward toward enjoying digital. The amount of money spent to thwart said noise is up to the beholder.

Tom

 

[treitz3]

Over any long period it's purely psychoacoustic. If a manufacturer or retailer says something will take 100+ or 200+ hours to burn in, I'd just move on to something else. If it takes that long it's not fit for purpose or more likely it's a pre-emptive excuse if you're not impressed by the product.

I take it that you have not heard a QSA fuse, the Muon Pro or a Takshaka cable then? I am not disagreeing with you but am trying to point out that these are but a few examples of products I personally have in my system that had quite the change after installation.

The change from initial install to 2 weeks and even a month later is undeniable and, quite simply, eye opening as to the sonic changes that happen.

In a perfect world (IMO/IME)? It would be great if we didn't have to experience this BS. But, it is what it is. The end result is worth waiting for in some instances.

Tom

 

[ssfas]

I take it that you have not heard a QSA fuse, the Muon Pro or a Takshaka cable then? I am not disagreeing with you but am trying to point out that these are but a few examples of products I personally have in my system that had quite the change after installation.

The change from initial install to 2 weeks and even a month later is undeniable and, quite simply, eye opening as to the sonic changes that happen.

In a perfect world (IMO/IME)? It would be great if we didn't have to experience this BS. But, it is what it is. The end result is worth waiting for in some instances.

Tom

The QSA fuse seller is 10 minutes from my home and I'm a prior customer (not of fuses). I offered one of them come along for a blind test, I was as much interested in if they could tell a difference, given they said it was so obvious. I wanted to test by swapping the two 2A fuses in my streamer and DAC. They wanted me to swap the fuses in my amplifier and mains plugs. That wasn't going to happen because replacing the 8A fuse on my amplifier would invalidate the Gryphon warranty and their 13A fuses appear to be illegal fakes.

Why would I want to use an ethernet filter when I have fibre optic cabling? Ethernet filters were invented by EMO Systems in Germany and I have one of their products, but it made no noticeable difference. I have to use a media converter because Innuos still have not discovered SFP ports, but my TP Link converter is powered by a 9v battery isolated from the mains.

Takshaka? Enlighten me.