It's time to go, see ya later.
- Thread starter Peter Breuninger
- Start date
I ask everyone who is into high end audio to join me in an exodus off this board of wankers.
You know what I mean. The latest rant from Amirm was the final straw, plus several total wankers over the past three weeks was enough. You know who you are. We are into high end audio and you are not... not graphs from some corporation, not words from some total wankers.
Look me up, I'm public. I promise you the next board will not allow wankers.
So it is written. So it shall be.
See you later, Joe, see you later Armirm.
Have fun without us.
Please remove all reference to AVShowrooms from this board.
Steve, you are invited over
Thank you,
Peter Breuninger
Well of all things, cowardly is the first term that comes to mind reading this. Not the fact you are going to stop your participation here. That isn't cowardly. Nor the idea you don't like the atmosphere and prefer to be elsewhere. The cowardly part is to post this on your way out, and to ask all reference to AVShowrooms be removed.
While I am at it, if you start your own board up would I be on the list of people not welcome there because I don't fully agree with your conclusions? To list who is welcome and imply others by name are not. All quite cowardly.
Well, I do hope you can get some distance from this, cool off a bit, and feel more at ease with your own ideas as well as being more at ease with those of other people who have different ideas.
Good luck. Goodbye.
What would a site be without wankers? And trolls. And oppositional defiants etc. etc. etc. Seems they make the internet go 'round.
I can assure you any alternative site will not be wanker-less. Just different wankers.
I can assure you any alternative site will not be wanker-less. Just different wankers.
This thread is mainly inhabited by men, yes?
Well then, first thing in the morning, or anytime a man has the time, he partakes in activity commensurate w/being a wanker. Quite literally!
I don't think Peter is stating anything other than the bleedin' obvious.
Re the audiophile world, the general label of being a wanker, is without doubt the least insulting one anyone could be lumbered with.
Well then, first thing in the morning, or anytime a man has the time, he partakes in activity commensurate w/being a wanker. Quite literally!
I don't think Peter is stating anything other than the bleedin' obvious.
Re the audiophile world, the general label of being a wanker, is without doubt the least insulting one anyone could be lumbered with.
If you want to leave , why do it by burning all bridges? Just bugger off quietly and return when your testosterone fueled musth has subsided..
Actually, I have good news, Marty: this board is improving as well. I think you are misreading the situation. As Amir wrote on the recent other thread about analog vs. digital:
So there. It's all good. Only one person is the problem, and that is Peter Breuninger. This man has now shown his true colors, and in the process has banned himself from this board, so that the moderators don't have to do it. It's all good.
Keith, a world first - it's not you pissing others off 
, but someone else who has been gracious enough to grab the mantle of "Up-one's-self" from you, and is running with it, into oblivion. In comparison Keith, you are positively civilised .
Peter, I never met you, and tbh, the world won't have ended soon enough if I ever have the opportunity.
, but someone else who has been gracious enough to grab the mantle of "Up-one's-self" from you, and is running with it, into oblivion. In comparison Keith, you are positively civilised . Peter, I never met you, and tbh, the world won't have ended soon enough if I ever have the opportunity.
While I don't agree with Peter's method of leaving, I understand the motivation.
A reviewer needs an extremely thick skin, but even then some barbs burrow deep. Taken individually, we audiophiles are generally a friendly, fair-minded, level-headed lot, albeit with tendency toward exactitude. As a collective, however, we can exhibit four-M behaviour: Malcontented Middle-Aged Male Misanthropes. That tendency toward exactitude swiftly turns captious and judgmental, especially when hiding behind a keyboard.
For my own part, there are a number of 'off limits' forums that I refuse to visit, because I don't think I deserve to die in a fire simply for holding down my job. Worse, in such places, you have no comeback, no right to object publicly. You are at best court jester, but more often a convenient combination of whipping boy and prick magnet.
Psychologically speaking, there is only so much of this a person can take before you either skulk off, storm out, or suck a tailpipe. How much one can take varies, but if Peter's departure is angry and bitter, perhaps it is time to reflect why he should feel so angry and bitter to effectively suicide himself like this.
There does seem to have been something of a change in direction here. This was a friendly forum of high-end debate and discussion, but now it seems to be increasingly littered with agenda-filled ranting. If the forum continues down this all-too-predictable story arc, it will end with four people holding two conflicting and extremely polarised views arguing with one another at every juncture. This is at first entertaining, but ultimately extremely frustrating for other members and it lets the air out of the tyres of the forum. Eventually, even the combatants tire of the combat, or more accurately move on to another forum with a bigger audience and do the same thing again, like a plague of locusts.
A reviewer needs an extremely thick skin, but even then some barbs burrow deep. Taken individually, we audiophiles are generally a friendly, fair-minded, level-headed lot, albeit with tendency toward exactitude. As a collective, however, we can exhibit four-M behaviour: Malcontented Middle-Aged Male Misanthropes. That tendency toward exactitude swiftly turns captious and judgmental, especially when hiding behind a keyboard.
For my own part, there are a number of 'off limits' forums that I refuse to visit, because I don't think I deserve to die in a fire simply for holding down my job. Worse, in such places, you have no comeback, no right to object publicly. You are at best court jester, but more often a convenient combination of whipping boy and prick magnet.
Psychologically speaking, there is only so much of this a person can take before you either skulk off, storm out, or suck a tailpipe. How much one can take varies, but if Peter's departure is angry and bitter, perhaps it is time to reflect why he should feel so angry and bitter to effectively suicide himself like this.
There does seem to have been something of a change in direction here. This was a friendly forum of high-end debate and discussion, but now it seems to be increasingly littered with agenda-filled ranting. If the forum continues down this all-too-predictable story arc, it will end with four people holding two conflicting and extremely polarised views arguing with one another at every juncture. This is at first entertaining, but ultimately extremely frustrating for other members and it lets the air out of the tyres of the forum. Eventually, even the combatants tire of the combat, or more accurately move on to another forum with a bigger audience and do the same thing again, like a plague of locusts.
Interesting isn't it. Egos get bigger, male appendage gets smaller. Appears loaded, armed, ready for battle. Turns and runs.
Noise is the enemy. Noise is the mindkiller.
Noise is the enemy. Noise is the mindkiller.
What a bizarre turn of events. I'm not here long enough to know if there's any real background here, but I hope Peter B. is okay and not suffering some sort of episode. Sincerely, I'm not trying to be smart, but I hate to see somebody pushed beyond the bounds of reason by something as innocuous as posts on a hifi forum.
For my part, I have to say that I don't really understand the recent animosity. Amir is passionate, no doubt, may have an opposing view to many others', but from what I can see his posts are filled with genuine content, generously crafted, and in the spirit of courteous discussion that's all too rare in the troll-filled world of the internet. Sure, we might disagree (I sometimes do), and I get tired of reading about Harman from time to time, but so what?
For my part, I have to say that I don't really understand the recent animosity. Amir is passionate, no doubt, may have an opposing view to many others', but from what I can see his posts are filled with genuine content, generously crafted, and in the spirit of courteous discussion that's all too rare in the troll-filled world of the internet. Sure, we might disagree (I sometimes do), and I get tired of reading about Harman from time to time, but so what?
Peter, considering the insults you communicated to me as part of our former "friendship" I am not surprised that you would stoop this low. This is an all timer. While I have not heard your current set up, I have heard several of them over the years. I wouldn't call them high end. High priced, not high end. Feel free to start your own site where you can "wank" to the pursuit of the high priced segment of this hobby, rather than the pursuit of music. BTW, Peter finds it very hard to apologize. He would have made it so much easier on himself if he had here early on.
The rest of your post is fine and reasonable. But the part I quoted above sounds too much like you are blaming the rest of the forum for Peter's leaving and his recent excess of animosity. That part does not make sense in my opinion. It is as if you think the forum should reflect and change to keep Peter here. I don't get that with his recent posting history. It seems to me he put himself on a pedestal he didn't really deserve, and suffered when others failed to see the pedestal. He then got angry, and couldn't let it go.
Exactly the kind of behavior we've come to expect daily from the inmates at Audio Asylum. Let's all pile on Peter. You all should be ashamed of your posts as should Amir who carried on endlessly in that still ongoing thread and was the straw that broke the camel's back. To what point? To be the last one to post and win??? Sorry in my book, that was conduct unbecoming one of the co-founders of the forum (as I've been reminded on occasion) and should have been taken offline early on. At one time there was more of a community here who might have thought - save for a handful here in this thread - for more than a second about what might have upset Peter so much to leave. That's apparently is not the case as the Wild, Wild West of the Internet has apparently sadly too taken over WBF and the negativity factor here is off the charts.
And let me pre-empt the usual rebuttals. Yes I'm actually proud to call myself Peter's friend. He selflessly promotes the industry's image and there's no one that works harder. If you don't think so, try editing 60 or more videos after a show, reviews and running the site. But make no mistake: I am not Peter even though I write for him -as well as PF-as well as many other mags in the past. No this is about the corruption of the founder's intent and what has caused many others to leave who would have really contributed to this forum. I think some people should give real pause to their responses.
Let me finish wish a note that I received from someone who long ago left this board after being similarly bullied like Peter and was astonished by the treatment Peter received.
I feel bad for the guy. For all he's done for the hobby and to be bullied and treated like that? I like Peter and his thoughts and opinions. And who has been to more shows in the past 5 years? Who has advanced the hobby with AMAZING video coverage? VIDEO being the key word. He takes us on his journey to every show. I watch and listen to all his videos. Show reports are always great too.
Oh, and send him a PM asking his opinion on X speakers or amps and you ALWAYS get a response.
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Gone are the days when so called experts reviewed, pontificated, and all-round lorded it over others re print magazine reviews and editorials. All the consumer had as right of reply was the letters page, and probably many critical/borderline vitriolic responses were just not published. Negative comments of gear at shows etc probably never saw the light of day.
As Bonzo75 will tell you, (at 51) I'm as Old School/dinosaur as they come, and a big part of me pines for the old days of "Daddy/Mummy telling me best", doesn't really like the instant analysis/instant criticism/instant expert status that the new world of Internet democracy has afforded everyone. But it's here to stay, and it's just pointless bitching about it, and in reality has had more benefits than disadvantages (in my case, pretty much all my current gear, if not 100% of it, hasn't had much established media coverage, and if it wasn't for the Web, likely I'd own none of this gear).
So I don't think this is anything to do w/particular arguments, it's a gripe that runs deep w/Peter re the fact that what he considers expert opinions of his aren't held up as such (as they would surely have been in the Good Ol' Days), and he cannot hack some one posting reviews that garner the same exposure as his, from probably a guy w/a Pizza box on his lap, tapping out a review of gear he's prob not even heard properly.
So I have sympathy for his deep feelings (we're all allowed to be angry), if I was Peter, I would feel aggrieved Pizza box man/audio "reviewer" gets as much exposure as me, but precisely ZERO for this over compensating rant, the effect demonstrating that contributing to forums isn't the best thing for him, but in effect running the equivalent of an Old School review magazine but updated for the current age via his AVShowrooms video blogs is the way to impart his views w/out being torn down.
So Peter, I'm sort of on your side, but you CANNOT call the community at large what you did. And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't other experts/reviewers get as much criticism if not more (J. Valin in particular attracts a LOT of vitriol, K. Kessler maybe a little less - but they are pretty measured in their responses), and yet they haven't thrown their toys out of the pram.
Could you just not have been so ballistic, but just said your piece that you have become frustrated at anal obsessive/navel gazing/vitriolic counter views, and you're concentrating on just putting the good word out there via your blogs - this way you would have maximised sympathy, and sidelined the lunatic fringe.
As Bonzo75 will tell you, (at 51) I'm as Old School/dinosaur as they come, and a big part of me pines for the old days of "Daddy/Mummy telling me best", doesn't really like the instant analysis/instant criticism/instant expert status that the new world of Internet democracy has afforded everyone. But it's here to stay, and it's just pointless bitching about it, and in reality has had more benefits than disadvantages (in my case, pretty much all my current gear, if not 100% of it, hasn't had much established media coverage, and if it wasn't for the Web, likely I'd own none of this gear).
So I don't think this is anything to do w/particular arguments, it's a gripe that runs deep w/Peter re the fact that what he considers expert opinions of his aren't held up as such (as they would surely have been in the Good Ol' Days), and he cannot hack some one posting reviews that garner the same exposure as his, from probably a guy w/a Pizza box on his lap, tapping out a review of gear he's prob not even heard properly.
So I have sympathy for his deep feelings (we're all allowed to be angry), if I was Peter, I would feel aggrieved Pizza box man/audio "reviewer" gets as much exposure as me, but precisely ZERO for this over compensating rant, the effect demonstrating that contributing to forums isn't the best thing for him, but in effect running the equivalent of an Old School review magazine but updated for the current age via his AVShowrooms video blogs is the way to impart his views w/out being torn down.
So Peter, I'm sort of on your side, but you CANNOT call the community at large what you did. And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't other experts/reviewers get as much criticism if not more (J. Valin in particular attracts a LOT of vitriol, K. Kessler maybe a little less - but they are pretty measured in their responses), and yet they haven't thrown their toys out of the pram.
Could you just not have been so ballistic, but just said your piece that you have become frustrated at anal obsessive/navel gazing/vitriolic counter views, and you're concentrating on just putting the good word out there via your blogs - this way you would have maximised sympathy, and sidelined the lunatic fringe.
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No, certainly shouldn't change to keep one person from leaving. But a forum that ultimately creates such a toxic atmosphere that it drives people away needs to look to itself to see why that happens, before it starts happening regularly and destroys the forum.
If his recent excess of animosity has an internal locus, and he's just wigging out, then no harm no foul on the part of the forum. If instead it has an external locus of control, and it comes as a result of increasing frustration for being forced to parade around in a black hat by the neighbourhood bully, is it really defensible?
I am ok with being called a wanker. What I don't want to be known as is a guy who only measures. Kind of a guy who judges women by only asking them for their bust size rather than feeling them to realize the differences between those that measure the same - before he wanks off, that is
Well, that's all of us told. But wait...
Let's "pile on" Amir instead.
Gentlemen, your frustration and annoyance is clear, but ranting at everyone in sight, telling forum members what they should and shouldn't post, and encouraging us to feel ashamed of ourselves is not aiding your stance, IMO. I'm not sure you realise how comical this all seems to the innocent bystander. I'm assuming your online personas are important to you, as name recognition is a part of high-end reviewing. Please take this next comment in the friendly manner intended: you're not doing yourselves any favours here.
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