Jacob Heilbrunn: Stillpoints Ultra 5s & XLFs/Continuum Turntable

[PeterA]

The only companies that I've found that recommend Stillspoints are the ones that sell them.

Magico has advised against using any 3rd party devices under their speakers. They don't even recommend using their own QPods.

At RMAF 2013, WA went all out to give a SOTA presentation. Audiophiles and reviewers alike posted rave comments. There were no Stillpoints in their set up.

I find it very interesting that the Dobbin's Kodo The Beat turntable now integrates Stillpoints in the design, I think, both internally and as the supplied footers. There must be some arrangement between the two companies and I don't see why there could not also be similar arrangements with speaker companies if the performance is in fact better. It would benefit all parties, though perhaps increasing prices somewhat.

From my observations on this and other forums, the most popular brand which seems to be benefitting the most from the Ultra 5's under speakers is Wilson Audio. I don't know if that is because of some design synergy or just because there are a lot of Wilson owners out there willing to do the trials and pay for the devices.

 

[audioblazer]

Some tube gears designers wont even encourage u to change the stock tubes. I was told it's not necessary to change my phono tubes & preamp tubes ( no longer using ) & stillpoints make a massive improvement to XLF & Focal stella . Hearing is believing . U can't get honest opinions about other manufacturers tweak for their products . It's all about pride . It's like saying that they have not optimise their design, hence the need to tweak

 

[Bruce B]

Wilson: no isolation, biamping or any changes. [Wilson dealer (who does not sell Stillpoints) disagreed (a lot) and encouraged me to go for Stillpoints when I asked him. I am glad my dealer was right.]

My Wilson dealer encouraged me as well as what I read here. It's the best tweak I've used!

 

[rockitman]

U can't get honest opinions about other manufacturers tweak for their products . It's all about pride . It's like saying that they have not optimise their design, hence the need to tweak

That is it...+1

 

[mep]

Some tube gears designers wont even encourage u to change the stock tubes. I was told it's not necessary to change my phono tubes & preamp tubes ( no longer using ) & stillpoints make a massive improvement to XLF & Focal stella . Hearing is believing . U can't get honest opinions about other manufacturers tweak for their products . It's all about pride . It's like saying that they have not optimise their design, hence the need to tweak

There are lots of legitimate reasons why "some tube designers won't even encourage u to change the stock tubes."

1. Some people are idiots and they will install a tube that is not the correct equivalent and potentially damage the gear and/or it will degrade the performance.
2. Tube designers have to sell their gear with tubes that are currently in production. Most manufacturers of tube gear go to great lengths to sort and grade the tubes they use in their products in order to minimize noise and maximize the quality of sound. Many tubes being sold on Ebay and other places as "NOS" are anything but. Most are 'pulls' out of old gear or tubes that reputable retailers/manufacturers dumped from their inventory because the tubes were basically junk.

I'm surprised that we haven't seen counterfeit 'NOS' Telefunken tubes on the market yet. And no, I'm not talking about where someone stencils the Telefunken logo on the glass because I have already seen that. I'm talking about having the glass diamond on the bottom of the tube glass.

 

[jap]

My Wilson dealer encouraged me as well as what I read here. It's the best tweak I've used!

Not suprising, since they're a Stillpoints dealer.

 

[Steve williams]

I'm surprised that we haven't seen counterfeit 'NOS' Telefunken tubes on the market yet. And no, I'm not talking about where someone stencils the Telefunken logo on the glass because I have already seen that. I'm talking about having the glass diamond on the bottom of the tube glass.

where have you been hiding Mark

there are countless Tele counterfeit NOS tubes being sold including the much heralded ECC803S

 

[rockitman]

Not suprising, since they're a Stillpoints dealer.

so you are drinking the speaker manufacturer's kool-aid and accepting that the speakers sound their best with stock spikes ? Spikes are great for draining energy...they are also great at allowing vibration energy back into the speaker...a sort of resonant feedback loop that obscures low level detail, bass extension and transparency.

 

[mep]

where have you been hiding Mark

there are countless Tele counterfeit NOS tubes being sold including the much heralded ECC803S

Do these tubes have the diamond in the bottom of the glass or do they just say Telefunken via a silkscreened logo?

 

[Steve williams]

Not only do they have the diamond on the bottom but they also have the gold pins that that the ECC803s has

 

[mep]

Not only do they have the diamond on the bottom but they also have the gold pins that that the ECC803s has

I guess I had my head in the sand because I hadn't read where anyone had pulled that off yet. The logo is easy to dupe but putting the diamond in the bottom of the glass can only come from a manufacturer of vacuum tubes. You can't add that later after manufacturing.

 

[microstrip]

Do these tubes have the diamond in the bottom of the glass or do they just say Telefunken via a silkscreened logo?

The diamond bottom is not a complete assurance they are Telefunken's - the factory that manufactured the original tubes also manufactured similar tubes of much less quality for other brands using similar glass envelopes. Many Telefunken tubes on the market are just re-silkscreened fakes with nice bottom diamonds. People used the nail to check the silkscreen - a very solid one was suspicious, but as prices grew-up forgers also perfected their technique. It is why you really should buy from an serious expert you trust.

I have read once that the thickness and type of material of the tube pins should also be checked against a genuine one.

 

[PeterA]

Spikes are great for draining energy...they are also great at allowing vibration energy back into the speaker...a sort of resonant feedback loop that obscures low level detail, bass extension and transparency.

Christian, you are touching upon perhaps the most relevant observation that I'm surprised has not come up in these Stillpoint discussions more often. Many floors sing along with the music in the form of vibrational energy launched into the room by the system. That is why I asked you before if in fact the vibrations one wants to eliminate are those coming from the floor back into the speaker. I think we agree that we do not want the speaker baffles to move. Wilson and Magico are clear about this because they design such rigid enclosures. If the Stillpoints prevent this energy in the floor from returning back to the speaker, then that may be the key reason for their reported benefits under speakers (aside from reducing the amount of energy directly drained into the floor from the speakers through the footers). The pockets of technology are in the beveled part of the Ultra 5. That goes on the floor when used under speakers allowing the flat section to accept the threaded insert for the speaker bottom.

I don't understand why this explanation, if correct, is not made more explicitly in the marketing of the product.

 

[rockitman]

Christian, you are touching upon perhaps the most relevant observation that I'm surprised has not come up in these Stillpoint discussions more often. Many floors sing along with the music in the form of vibrational energy launched into the room by the system. That is why I asked you before if in fact the vibrations one wants to eliminate are those coming from the floor back into the speaker. I think we agree that we do not want the speaker baffles to move. Wilson and Magico are clear about this because they design such rigid enclosures. If the Stillpoints prevent this energy in the floor from returning back to the speaker, then that may be the key reason for their reported benefits under speakers (aside from reducing the amount of energy directly drained into the floor from the speakers through the footers). The pockets of technology are in the beveled part of the Ultra 5. That goes on the floor when used under speakers allowing the flat section to accept the threaded insert for the speaker bottom.

I don't understand why this explanation, if correct, is not made more explicitly in the marketing of the product.

I think we are in agreement. I am on concrete basement floors. They generate vibration and I see this on my Table Stable TS140 vibration graph, so I know it is there.

 

[rbbert]

I think it just goes to show that every situation is different; Gary touched on this in his treatise on coupling/decoupling loudspeakers. Given that fact I don't see how even the speakers' manufacturer can really know what will work best in every situation. It's interesting that very few manufacturers of electronic components even attempt to recommend specific footers, and most come with the most generic imaginable. As with most tweaks, there is no substitute for experimentation.

 

[allvinyl]

Stillpoints Installation Recommendations

I agree. I thought double what is required. I screwed mine in all of the way and then backed off about a half turn so there is no contact with the ultra 5 and bottom of speaker

Steve, you installed correctly. Our experience tells us you need at least 3 threads of the adapter or set screw into the component for a secure attachment. Tightening the adapter into the Ultra product first and then installing the Ultra/adapter assembly into the speaker is the preferred method. It allows for the greatest amount of adjustment for leveling, etc and also helps prevent the adapter from seizing in the component's insert.

Also important is the following. After thinking about Steve's issue with tight adapters, I am wondering if the inserts in the Wilson's are made of stainless as well. If so, it is recommended to use a lubricant on a stainless to stainless interface to prevent seizing.

 

[allvinyl]

Name one speaker mfgr' that recommends stillpoints ? I bet you won't find one for obvious reasons and it has nothing to do with their performance on said speaker. It has all to do with protecting their own brand. Admirable yes... but is it in the best interest of the speaker owner ? Not in my experience. YMMV.

I can attest to the fact that many mfgrs won't give us details on the size of the tap on their components when they learn we want help a customer replace the OEM feet with Stillpoints products. They want to protect their brand. I get it. But I can also hear and use my ears first and foremost in making these decisions.

 

[still-one]

I can attest to the fact that many mfgrs won't give us details on the size of the tap on their components when they learn we want help a customer replace the OEM feet with Stillpoints products. They want to protect their brand. I get it. But I can also hear and use my ears first and foremost in making these decisions.

John
During the recent Sasha 2 launch event at Paragon I had a brief follow-up to our discussion at RMAF with Jerron about possible benefits of aftermarket feet for my X2's. He noted that he was very aware of the current buzz as he had received 3 calls just that day asking about thread sizes for their speakers. He didn't indicate that he refused or was reluctant to pass on that information. Maybe I just assumed that he had.