Jadis JA-200 Mk. II Amplifiers
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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The track reliability of of Jadis has two components - breakdowns and serviceability. Breakdowns were mostly due to the use of improper tubes in the amplifiers - Jadis needs properly burn-in and matched tubes, that very few vendors really do. The peak of the horror stories happened during the 90's, when there was a shortage of quality 6550 power tubes and chinese tubes manufactured under very poor conditions and no quality control flooded the market. These tubes were leaky and easily shorted, particularly towards the end of life. Jadis pushes their tubes - something that was not a problem for a NOS General Electric tube - and most of these new tube were inadequate for their amplifiers. Owners of Jadis equipment must be prepared to change tubes frequently - class A asks for cathode current, and tube life is mainly determined by cathode evaporation, that is approximately proportional to charge = time X current!
Serviceability was sometimes an issue due to changes in the distribution and people who did not understand their circuits and needs servicing them. This created a lot of traffic in the net, mostly users reporting and asking for advice.
IMHO reliability of tube equipment is ruled by a simple principle - usually you get what you pay when buying tubes. No one can supply reliable tubes cheap - just think that a good supplier, such as most equipment manufacturer supplied tubes - discards more than half of the tubes they get. Pre-burn-in, measuring, selecting, burning- in, measuring and selecting again takes time and money - but then we are assured that the probability of breakdown is very low.
Just to finish, when in my hands Jadis was always a very reliable brand - I do not remember of having any issue with them.
Thanks, micro.
This is exactly what I had heard about the Jadis line also. My JA 30Mk2 uses Tung Sol KT150's and only two per side. I distinctly remember in the past when I owned a large Melos ( whatever happened to them?) tube amp and witnessed a major tube failure after I had replaced the KT88's with a new KT88 replacement from...China. The ensuing flash and smoke was really something to witness! I don't think i have moved so quickly in my life, LOL.
Agree 100% that with tubes you do tend to get what you pay for.
Hi Again Davey,
Straight from the horses mouth this morning--I am informed that Jadis is now 100% French hands--great news!
My source is not from Jadis but is joined at the hip with the company
--plus I am informed the current versions from them are on another level sonically and of course reliability:b
Good Listening,
BruceD
Thanks Bruce. That confirms what I understood. The new Jadis is really sounding sweet with my CAT preamp..
Good work, Audiocrack!
Hmmmm . . . it is not an unambiguously favourable review. But I notice it is a review of the old model, not the MK. II model with KT-150s.
Hmmmm . . . it is not an unambiguously favourable review. But I notice it is a review of the old model, not the MK. II model with KT-150s.
Indeed! Ron that review is from 1993!! Kind of like comparing an older Ferrari 308 against todays 488 Italia Spider....after all they are both Ferrari's! ( the Jadis 200 from '93 and using GE 6550's..
vs. either the Jadis JA 200 Mk 2, or the JA 30Mk2's utilizing the new KT150's)
Crazy why people like to believe that high end gear from the distant past is still fully comparable to today's model.
As an example of this, I had an interesting occurrence yesterday. I ran into a a'phile whom I had not seen in quite a while. This guy used to have a Linn LP12..an early 90's model. He sold it years ago and since went into VPI tables and now owns a Pear audio. This chap tells me that the Pear audio kills the LP12, he remembers how difficult it was to keep the LP12 adjusted and how difficult it was to get the player to sound good. I asked him if he had heard a late model LP12...with the new mods and power supply etc., He tells me they all sound the same! So, i invited this guy back for a listen...
You will be seeing his Pear audio on A'gon soon.
You are most welcome, Ron. I (also) believe it is an old review that is reprinted but I think it gives a sort of context for audiophiles that are interested in the Jadis brand in general and the JA 200 in particular.
It is strange because just two days ago Jadis told me that a new review is coming out in Stereophile.
Ron, a lot of the reviews on the Stereophile web site are just rehashes of old reviews from back in the day. I think this one definitely complies to that.
On page 129 of the March 1994 issue there is also a follow up to that review by Jonathan Scull of the same amp...and another rave. (Plus in the same issue...there’s even a letter from Larry Kay about the DO review)None of this truly applies to today’s product, imho.
Fun to read those old reviews though....and certainly entertaining, but the question is whether they are entertaining enough to get me out of my cold self, lmao.
BTW, I had also heard that there would be a new review of one of the new amps...not sure where it’s going to be though....I had actually heard The Absolute sound??
Davey, I apologize. I saw the link on the way to dinner, and I had in my head that literally two days ago Jadis told me to expect a review of the JA200 in Stereophile.
A good example of expectation bias on my part, I think.
A good example of expectation bias on my part, I think.
My experience with jadis is it is very musical. Not necessarily ticking the hifi boxes. So tough to review. If you like how it sounds, the harmonics, the feel, you will like it. If you review based on bass, neutrality, highs, speed, etc, it might not work. So instead of reading a review better to listen
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I agree with that, Bonzo. Back when my friend and I had same sources and same speakers with different amps, comparisons along these lines were always interesting. He had JA80s when I had my Graafs, and the presentations were totally different. The JA80s were, to my ear, a more enjoyable listen overall, but I really missed the listen-through clarity of the OTLs, and in many ways I felt that as much as I loved the JA80s I might not fancy then longer term. When I changed to SF Elipsa Reds my friend brought over the 80s to try. The combo was too syrupy for me, although they sounded fab on his Amati Futuras.
He has actually since upgraded to JA200s, although while they're not that old I'm not sure which gen. To my ears, in his system, he gained some attributes bit maybe lost some as well. I kind of magical balance that had existed with the 80s seemed lacking with the 200s. I kept thinking of the sound in terms of parts rather that whole. Now, I think he's happy since, so maybe they've settled down, but I personally think the 80s with KT120s sounded more to my taste than 200s with Winged C 6550s. I'd love to hear the 200s with KT120s or even 150s, but the guy is moving house and the budget for a full revalve might take a while!
I can't really contribute to the specific comparisons part of the thread, but my initial view on the (older) 200s was slight disappointment. Of course, everything is matching with this kind of gear, so who knows.
He has actually since upgraded to JA200s, although while they're not that old I'm not sure which gen. To my ears, in his system, he gained some attributes bit maybe lost some as well. I kind of magical balance that had existed with the 80s seemed lacking with the 200s. I kept thinking of the sound in terms of parts rather that whole. Now, I think he's happy since, so maybe they've settled down, but I personally think the 80s with KT120s sounded more to my taste than 200s with Winged C 6550s. I'd love to hear the 200s with KT120s or even 150s, but the guy is moving house and the budget for a full revalve might take a while!
I can't really contribute to the specific comparisons part of the thread, but my initial view on the (older) 200s was slight disappointment. Of course, everything is matching with this kind of gear, so who knows.
Given that the Jadis JA200 mk 2 runs 20 KT150s like the Ayon Orthos does, and that there is only once source for KT150s as far as I know, I would expect the Jadis to share at least some of the attributes of the Ayon's sound.
Just thought I'd make that point, but it isn't too useful unless you know the Ayons, I guess.
Just thought I'd make that point, but it isn't too useful unless you know the Ayons, I guess.
We already know that any new review will be a rave review ... What puzzles me is that we still do not have any firm technical details on the new MKII's, except the possibility of using new tubes. For example, does any one know if old units can be upgraded? It can be of great interest, considering that there are currently 6 pairs of used JA200's being advertised in Europe, including a mkII.
I'd expect that since the speakers are massively different. But nonetheless I stand by my statement. There's just too much personality in output valves for it not to be the case. You'd hear it if you tried both options on my Duettas but that's never going to happen.
Jadis will be at the Salon Haute Fidélité in Paris next weekend, demoing the JA80 MKII and JP80MC. If I have the time, I might try and go along, and can ask whether or not there’s an upgrade path for existing owners. If anyone else has questions, please post them here.
I’ll know later in the week if I can get there.
Best,
853guy
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