John DeVore on the Grey Market and OCD Mikey

[Robh3606]

It is obvious that we have NOT worked in the same industries and you have not reached the upper level of management to know about the economics ted to decision making.

At this point you are set in your ways.

I will leave you with this.: When I got one of my degrees in electrical engineering, one of the courses that we had to take was “Engineering Ethics”. That course would explain a lot of your misguided beliefs away. Go on Amazon and educate yourself on Engineering Ethics and I think that you will see my point a little clearer.

I had to take Ethics training every year and as a QA Manager Ethics was what built my reputation especially when dealing with manufacturing issues and our customers.

You should re-read this:

"Greatest fool of all is the one who fools himself."

You seem to be lost or on some crusade! Good luck with that

Over and out

Rob

 

[Carlos269]

I had to take Ethics training every year and as a QA Manager Ethics was what built my reputation especially when dealing with manufacturing issues and our customers.

You should re-read this:

"Greatest fool of all is the one who fools himself."

You seem to be lost or on some crusade! Good luck with that

Over and out

Rob

No, not lost in any crusade. I just don’t fool myself into thinking or believing that the prices of high-end audio equipment are justified in any way, shape or form. Read the quote in my signature line again and maybe this time it will have context.

 

[Lee]

The thing about how markets work is that customers buy products with appeal. Successful companies must have an appealing product to be successful. I believe most audiophile customers buy speakers for sound qualiy and build quality primarily.

High end audio manufacturing is like a Fortune 500 business in many ways. To stay in business, there needs to be a decent profit margin. Some high end manufacturers do well financially but it’s hard when there is a recession. We are seeing softness in the market for luxury goods now and historically high end audio gear has been an early item people cut back on right away if there is uncertainty in the economic outlook. The change in spending happens among wealthy people too. Many industry participants don’t understand that.

I would also caution people to not make assumptions about the cost structure of expensive loudspeakers. There is a lot of overhead in running a business at scale. If you visit a modern manufacturer you will see that there are so many expenses involved in making fine speakers.

 

[Carlos269]

The thing about how markets work is that customers generally buy products with appeal. Successful companies must have an appealing product to be successful.

High end audio manufacturing is like a Fortune 500 business in many ways. To stay in business, there needs to be a decent profit margin. Some high end manufacturers do well financially but it’s hard when there is a recession. We are seeing softness in the market for luxury goods now and historically high end audio gear has been an item people cut back on right away if there is uncertainty in the economic outlook.

I would also caution people to not make assumptions about the cost structure of expensive loudspeakers. There is a lot of overhead in running a business at scale. If you visit a modern manufacturer you will see that there are so many expenses involved in making fine speakers.

Lee instead of speaking with generalities, why don’t you walk us through an example with your justification of a $90K Tripoint grounding unit? Assume that you are in front of a lecture room at Caltech. Walk us through the justification of this product’s existence and pricing. The floor is yours.

 

[Solypsa]

@Carlos269 has mentioned some of the value custom builders he is a patron of. I agree with him; they offer a LOT of value and I am glad they do what they do.

Do these value builders earn enough to have multiple 7 figures to spend on audio or P cars?

If someone else does, is their earning portfolio bloated or 'justified'?

 

[Lee]

Lee instead of speaking with generalities, why don’t you walk us through an example with your justification of a $90K Tripoint grounding unit? Assume that you are in front of a lecture room at Caltech. Walk us through the justification of this product’s existence and pricing. The floor is yours.

I don’t know the cost structure of that product so I can’t make the case. Maybe Miguel Alvarez can help there.

But think about all the expenses involved. Parts, labor, warranty, distributor margin, dealer margin, employee healthcare and other benefits, factory building costs, utilities, management compensation, etc.

 

[Carlos269]

I don’t know the cost structure of that product so I can’t make the case. Maybe Miguel Alvarez can help there.

But think about all the expenses involved. Parts, labor, warranty, distributor margin, dealer margin, employee healthcare and other benefits, factory building costs, utilities, management compensation, etc.

Be glad that you are not in front of me interviewing for a job.

 

[Solypsa]

Oh and I also feel that the costs for luxury high end are getting absurd.

 

[Carlos269]

I would rather eat a bullet than work for you in any capacity.

I think that we can both agree with that and I believe Tom Martin feels the same way.

 

[bonzo75]

Oh and I also feel that the costs for luxury high end are getting absurd.

well they figure those who can’t hear judge by the sticker and can be taken for a ride. They just have to tickle the insecurity where the person feels he is leaving out something on the table if he doesn’t pay up.

 

[nirodha]

I am leaving this forum because of unwarranted censorship. Good luck to all

 

[PeterA]

Well I watched the video. I’m a bit curious why Lee posted it. Kind of tough to get through JD’s videos but he gets to it around 10: 20 mark. If the events that he describes actually happened, it seems like pretty sleazy behavior on OCD Mikey‘s part. it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

I wonder what happened to the much discussed invitation and acceptance by OCD to visit Mike in Seattle with some DAC to compare to Mike’s new DAC. Did that ever happen? I think that might’ve made for a rather interesting discussion.

 

[Lee]

I think that we can both agree with that and I believe Tom Martin feels the same way.

I doubt it. He wrote me a glowing recommendation letter earlier in the year.

 

[Lee]

Well I watched the video. I’m a bit curious why Lee posted it. Kind of tough to get through JD’s videos but he gets to it around 10: 20 mark. If the events that he describes actually happened, it seems like pretty sleazy behavior on OCD Mikey‘s part. it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

I wonder what happened to the much discussed invitation and acceptance by OCD to visit Mike in Seattle with some DAC to compare to Mike’s new DAC. Did that ever happen? I think that might’ve made for a rather interesting discussion.

I want Mike to tell his side of the story...

 

[Carlos269]

I am leaving this forum because of unwarranted censorship. Good luck to all

What happened? You have been on this forum since 2010. Please elaborate and don’t leave us all hanging and speculating?

 

[Audire]

I want Mike to tell his side of the story...

Didn’t you read Mikey’s comments under the video prior to it going private?

 

[Lee]

Didn’t you read Mikey’s comments under the video prior to it going private?

No, I did not see that. Do you have a copy of his comments?

 

[mulveling]

Wish comments had been left up. I vaguely remember (don't take this as a quote) Mikey complaining about the 1500 restock fee. Something like: he offered Devore 500 and thought that should have been enough? Then there was a lot of Mikey commenting "then don't buy from me" to everyone who expressed a distaste for his purported actions. Not how I would've done that, but then hey I'm no businessman!

 

[Audire]

No, I did not see that. Do you have a copy of his comments?

I didn’t copy them as this post on WTB wasn’t even up yet - so no purpose. However at the time I read the posts OCD didn’t attempt to defend his position. He essentially stated, ‘then don‘t do business with me.” That’s not a quote, just a brief summary which OCD repeated a couple of times.

The new public video is up. It states it was edited because of an error. What’s the removed error? On the new video the old comments have been removed. I haven’t listened to it yet. Comments are beginning …

 

[Lee]

I didn’t copy them as this post on WTB wasn’t even up yet - so no purpose. However at the time I read the posts OCD didn’t attempt to defend his position. He essentially stated, ‘then don‘t do business with me.” That’s not a quote, just a brief summary which OCD repeated a couple of times.

The new public video is up. It states it was edited because of an error. What’s the removed error? On the new video the old comments have been removed. I haven’t listened to it yet. Comments are beginning …

I checked the new uploaded video and don't see any comments from Mike. Hopefully he will visit here and give his side of the story.