Anyone with direct experience comparing the Kuzma Safir vs 4POINT vs 4POINT9 arms? What does the Safir arm do better than the others, with everything else being equal.
Kuzma arms
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My sense is that the evolution of Franc's designs are incremental, similar to the differences in going from metal to jeweled bearings in the 4Points. More of what the arm does well rather than big changes. That seems to be inline with Marcus' early account of the Safir in this post:
www.whatsbestforum.com
I know you follow that thread. It will be interesting to hear more thoughts on the 4Point / Safir comparison.
Kuzma SAFIR 9
But the biggest ? Is how does it sound compared to the 4POINT? I would guess the only thing to break-in is the tonearm cable. Looking forward to your thoughts. Enjoy
www.whatsbestforum.com
I know you follow that thread. It will be interesting to hear more thoughts on the 4Point / Safir comparison.
So I've received my demo Safir arm 3 days ago and have now answered my own question "What does the Safir arm do better than the others, with everything else being equal."
Everything....it's a completely different animal than the 4POINT and 4POINT9. More air, more life, more 3D, more focus more depth, more EVERYTHING. There's no going back. Even the wife who came in for a listen said system is sounding fantastic what did you change? I showed her the arm and said it was made of sapphire. She asked " Does that arm cost more than my sapphire ring"? I just smiled
Everything....it's a completely different animal than the 4POINT and 4POINT9. More air, more life, more 3D, more focus more depth, more EVERYTHING. There's no going back. Even the wife who came in for a listen said system is sounding fantastic what did you change? I showed her the arm and said it was made of sapphire. She asked " Does that arm cost more than my sapphire ring"? I just smiled
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She made these, 1,3K natural Ruby’s and top wesselton diamonds, white gold. Almost the same price as a Safir arm.
Well prior to the Stabi R I had the original Kuzma XL (non-dc version) with the 4Point. Sold 4 Stabi R tables so got to compare extensively the R vs XL. Yes the XL did bass better, bigger and fuller BUT the R was more focused and the soundstage more precise. Yes I could have upgraded the XL to the DC version but just the cost of the upgrade was more $$$ than getting a new R. Now with the Safir on the R it's even better than ever. Anyone in the MA / NH area please give us a call and come over for a listen and hear what the Safir doesn't do...like get in the way of the music which is howt a recent customer explained his thoughts to me.
BTW @ Adagio your wife does beauticul work
Thanks!Well prior to the Stabi R I had the original Kuzma XL (non-dc version) with the 4Point. Sold 4 Stabi R tables so got to compare extensively the R vs XL. Yes the XL did bass better, bigger and fuller BUT the R was more focused and the soundstage more precise. Yes I could have upgraded the XL to the DC version but just the cost of the upgrade was more $$$ than getting a new R. Now with the Safir on the R it's even better than ever. Anyone in the MA / NH area please give us a call and come over for a listen and hear what the Safir doesn't do...like get in the way of the music which is howt a recent customer explained his thoughts to me.
BTW @ Adagio your wife does beauticul work
I have the R myself, but with the 4-point 9” .
If I ever can afford it a Safir would be awesome to have on my R.
The Kuzma Safir 9 was presented in Munich on Stabi R. Sound was great. side to side comparison with Monaco III and Kuzma 4point 14“.Well prior to the Stabi R I had the original Kuzma XL (non-dc version) with the 4Point. Sold 4 Stabi R tables so got to compare extensively the R vs XL. Yes the XL did bass better, bigger and fuller BUT the R was more focused and the soundstage more precise. Yes I could have upgraded the XL to the DC version but just the cost of the upgrade was more $$$ than getting a new R. Now with the Safir on the R it's even better than ever. Anyone in the MA / NH area please give us a call and come over for a listen and hear what the Safir doesn't do...like get in the way of the music which is howt a recent customer explained his thoughts to me.
BTW @ Adagio your wife does beauticul work
Stabi R and Safir were a much better team in this shoot out
Interesting thread and feedback!
I've recently been offered a 4P14 (standard wire, non-ruby model) and wondering if there would be any advantage (at all?) over my 4P11 (Cardas wire and ruby model)?
I'd have to move some other gear on to facilitate the purchase. And discerning what to do there is probably harder than figuring out whether the 4P14 is worth it in itself.
I've recently been offered a 4P14 (standard wire, non-ruby model) and wondering if there would be any advantage (at all?) over my 4P11 (Cardas wire and ruby model)?
I'd have to move some other gear on to facilitate the purchase. And discerning what to do there is probably harder than figuring out whether the 4P14 is worth it in itself.
I hadn't seen this feedback previously and it's very interesting although not too surprising. The simple Stabi R with 4P or 4P9 has sounded great each and every time I've heard it at shows. A popular pairing cartridge-wise seems to be the Dynavector XV-1T. In any event, I have yet to hear the Safir but am very interested based on these reports.
I currently have my Stabi M/4P11 set up with a Dynavector XV1S. And while a great cartridge, it's not the best I've heard with a 4P.
I also have the Stabi M & ruby 4P11 but with Opus 1. I love the combo. One of these days, I'll probably move up to the Safir.
I have an Air Tight PC1 Supreme and had wondered if the Opus 1 was a worthwhile upgrade?
Don't suppose you have any insight into my 4P14 quandary?
Popular pairing for the 9 and 11“ 4P, or for the much heavier SAFIR?
Would a DV XV-1T mach the highmass SAFIR at all for great performance? I hesitate with this combination for the future, but never heard this pairing, but lived with the old 4P11 and XV-1S for many years and liked it a lot.
I've never heard the PC1.
The best thing to do in regards to questions around the arm's high mass is to read Franc Kuzma's white paper on the topic. This is available on the Kuzma product website.
The best thing to do in regards to questions around the arm's high mass is to read Franc Kuzma's white paper on the topic. This is available on the Kuzma product website.
Read Franc's white paper. The heavier 14" arm doesn't necessarily limit cartridge choices. And even less so than the Safir. Traditional compliance concerns should be viewed with a grain of salt.
Maybe 4P14 can be preferred with Car 60 or similar cartridge but I believe 11" will be good enough. My concern is not tonearm resonance calculations. It's about the end result. IMHO when the arm gets longer dynamics and lifelike character of the cartridge diminishes. I prefer shorter arms.
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