Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe

[microstrip]

Thank you for being tactful. I don't disagree with anything you've said. The room plays such an important role. I will never get the depth of soundstage and holographic 3D presentation that I've experienced from many of my friends' systems. I'm pretty sure that effect requires sidewalls (or at least parallel walls). I can live with that; for me the tradeoffs are worth it. My room doesn't prevent me from getting all the other attributes I care about; it really comes down to careful matching of components. I have 3 systems in my house, 2 of which are in dedicated rooms, plus a high end portable rig. I know what type of sound I like. I am a 'recreate the music event' type of person.

One thing I have learned is that investing in this hobby is a slippery slope. What satisfies Magico S5's does not necessarily satisfy the M-Pro (very different beasts!). It can be frustrating but when you make a move in the right direction, the satisfaction makes it all worth while (well, at least for me ).

I have listened holographic 3D presentation with great depth in a room without sidewalls - the large area is functionally divided in three rooms, the audio system is placed in the cental section of an L space. IMHO most of the the spatial and life like effects are due to the proper choice of source and electronics coupled to an optimum positioning of the listener and speakers.

A good friend owned the Infinity Beta's with the bass towers in an absurd asymmetric positioning - but using vinyl had a fantastic soundstage and depth. A large orchestra sounded really lifelike. However when using digital it was completely flat - great bass and tone, but uninteresting. This does not mean that digital is inferior to vinyl, it just exemplifies the whole system was tuned to his analog rig.

BTW, for me holographic does not imply pin point - it means having its own natural acoustic space in the stage.

And yes, the satisfaction makes it all worth while! It is really an enjoyable hobby!

 

[rockitman]

I do however think that Ian system deserves a dedicated room. I believe that comes a level where a room dedicated to the task is the best option.

If it's true Ian has a dedicated room and a second system...I agree put the best stuff in the dedicated room and a lesser system upstairs by the kitchen/family room. That would go a long way towards achieving stereo enjoyment nirvana.

 

[MadFloyd]

If it's true Ian has a dedicated room and a second system...I agree put the best stuff in the dedicated room and a lesser system upstairs by the kitchen/family room. That would go a long way towards achieving stereo enjoyment nirvana.

The dedicated room isn't as good. I would sell my gear before putting it back in there. Been there, done that.

 

[rockitman]

The dedicated room isn't as good. I would sell my gear before putting it back in there. Been there, done that.

Why do you say that...is the room too small ? What are it's dimensions LxWXH ?

 

[MadFloyd]

Al, whatever your intentions for this post you're doing your friend and others a disservice by ignoring the facts. Mine and I venture to say most people's replies have nothing to do with what you're saying below.



Sorry Ian for opening this up again, it's not for arguing with anyone but I think that it will be helpful to you.

Fact is Al that Ian has been dissatisfied with his system for a while and repeatedly shared it here and on Myles' Audionirvana site. We know he's tried various things and multiple gear changes the LP 2.1 was just another effort. Based on Ian's comments IME simply blaming the phono stage's output is the wrong conclusion. From years of experience I can guarantee that aside from any gear related matters or other setup issues the front end wasn't optimized. At this level 1/10 of a gram a micrometer or slight deviation of tracking angle will result in poor performance.

One can blame anything they want or attribute things to personal tastes but fact remains that irrespective of anyone's feelings towards the Lamm removing it didn't bring about or restore a state of bliss...

david

David, you have no clue about my level of satisfaction. You are not me. Al is a close friend of mine and knows a heck of a lot more about how I feel about my system than you do. But even he can't state that in a 'fact'ual manner.

I get that you like Lamm and think that everything else is crap. As for removing the Lamm phono stage from my system not resulting in bliss, you are oh so wrong. I have yet to hear a phono stage that comes anywhere close to what I have. And given that I'm pretty sure you haven't heard it (at least not in your own system), you are not in a position to comment on that either.

 

[MadFloyd]

Why do you say that...is the room too small ? What are it's dimensions LxWXH ?

15 x 27 x 7.5.

Built with ASC wall dampening system (walls & ceiling), heavy doors. Soundproofed. Cement slab floor covered with carpet. However, despite lots of bass traps, I couldn't cure a 80hz peak without EQ. Ceiling too low imo. Bass can't escape (even with both doors open). Wilson Sashas would tear your ears out. Room is now home theater only (Wilson Sophia 2's and matcing center/surrounds, JL subs). Sounds good, but employing digital EQ via Classe SSP-800.

 

[rockitman]

David, you have no clue about my level of satisfaction. You are not me. Al is a close friend of mine and knows a heck of a lot more about how I feel about my system than you do. But even he can't state that in a 'fact'ual manner.

I get that you like Lamm and think that everything else is crap. As for removing the Lamm phono stage from my system not resulting in bliss, you are oh so wrong. I have yet to hear a phono stage that comes anywhere close to what I have. And given that I'm pretty sure you haven't heard it (at least not in your own system), you are not in a position to comment on that either.

That is an unfair comment Ian. People here are just trying to help you maximize the enjoyment of your system. Based on the quality of your components...there should be no reason why you not getting satisfying sound. Maybe you are and if so...why do you continue to change out components ? If changing your stereo underwear often appeals to you....then more power to you...just state it as so.

Try to keep in mind that the best equipment in the world will never sound to it's potential if there is a significant room acoustics problem that cannot be fixed by anything less than moving the stuff out of that room.

 

[rockitman]

15 x 27 x 7.5.

Built with ASC wall dampening system (walls & ceiling), heavy doors. Soundproofed. Cement slab floor covered with carpet. However, despite lots of bass traps, I couldn't cure a 80hz peak without EQ. Ceiling too low imo. Bass can't escape (even with both doors open). Wilson Sashas would tear your ears out. Room is now home theater only (Wilson Sophia 2's and matcing center/surrounds, JL subs). Sounds good, but employing digital EQ via Classe SSP-800.

did you ever try your current rig in that room ? Worried about a 80Hz peak...are you kidding me ? I would go through the effort and remove most of the base traps and install your stereo and go from there. That's my last piece of advice...if your looking for any. Cheers !

 

[knghifi]

The dedicated room isn't as good. I would sell my gear before putting it back in there. Been there, done that.

Your problem is the Pass XS-150s and Pass XS-pre, how much do you want for them? As a bonus, I'll pick them up.

 

[MadFloyd]

That is an unfair comment Ian. People here are just trying to help you maximize the enjoyment of your system. Based on the quality of your components...there should be no reason why you not getting satisfying sound. Maybe you are and if so...why do you continue to change out components ? If changing your stereo underwear often appeals to you....then more power to you...just state it as so.

Try to keep in mind that the best equipment in the world will never sound to it's potential if there is a significant room acoustics problem that cannot be fixed by anything less than moving the stuff out of that room.

Christian, I don't know how to make it any more clear that there is nothing wrong with my system. Unless you consider that having Pass gear means one can't be happy, then I guess you're unhappy with your system too (and you just haven't been 'convinced' of it yet).

I don't change out gear on some endless quest for audio nirvana. I've slowly upgraded all my Pass gear, one component at time, over the years to maximize my enjoyment. Does that automatically mean that if I upgrade a component I'm trying to 'fix' something? Maybe this is my hobby and I like to improve the sound. There seems to be a correlation where improving the sound results in more enjoyment.

I totally admit that I don't think my system is perfect. I haven't heard a system that is - and I've heard thousands. If there's a way to improve it that is in my 'means' I will seek to make that improvement. I guess I'm just that kind of an audiophile. When another hobbyist shares their experience that upgrading from a component (that I also own) brought him great improvement, I take note of that. Is the fact that I might want to consider another phono stage automatically mean I am unhappy with what I have? Not necessarily. And, when the component in consideration is a fraction of the price of the one you own, there's another consideration.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but I don't react well to people telling me I have a problem when they haven't heard my system - or thinking I am unhappy and not taking my word for it when I tell them otherwise - it's tantamount to calling me a liar.

 

[microstrip]

15 x 27 x 7.5.

Built with ASC wall dampening system (walls & ceiling), heavy doors. Soundproofed. Cement slab floor covered with carpet. However, despite lots of bass traps, I couldn't cure a 80hz peak without EQ. Ceiling too low imo. Bass can't escape (even with both doors open). Wilson Sashas would tear your ears out. Room is now home theater only (Wilson Sophia 2's and matcing center/surrounds, JL subs). Sounds good, but employing digital EQ via Classe SSP-800.

Is it the peak around 76 Hz due to the overlapping fundamental eigenmode of height and the second eigenmode of width? As you have a cement slab floor, you would need very large tuned bass traps in the ceiling and/or the lateral walls to deal with it.

As I have often said, IMHO, no acoustic treatment can replace volume.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi Ian

I agree about no system being perfect. I also agree that certain people's ears respond best to some components and just the opposite in others. That's what makes the hobby fun.

I also understand your thought to introduce tubes somewhere in the system to achieve a certain goal.

However, as you say you've been there and done that and at the end of the day you still prefer your gear. I understand that as well as renaining brand loyal and moving up in that brand to achieve your goal.

So all in all Ian I laud you for your experimentation. Now it's time to accept that with whatever deficiencies you might perceive to be a problem you still love your system. For me that's what it's about.

 

[rockitman]

Christian, I don't know how to make it any more clear that there is nothing wrong with my system.

I'm a bit confused then. Why are we going through this again ?

 

[ddk]

David, you have no clue about my level of satisfaction. You are not me. Al is a close friend of mine and knows a heck of a lot more about how I feel about my system than you do. But even he can't state that in a 'fact'ual manner.

I get that you like Lamm and think that everything else is crap. As for removing the Lamm phono stage from my system not resulting in bliss, you are oh so wrong. I have yet to hear a phono stage that comes anywhere close to what I have. And given that I'm pretty sure you haven't heard it (at least not in your own system), you are not in a position to comment on that either.

Maybe I shouldn't have in this case Ian but generally I take people at their word when they describe their system, all my comments were based on your posts; my bad. Nothing was said about your Pass phono here nor implied not sure what why you're bringing it up, glad all is well and you're content with everything, please ignore everything I said!

Enjoy,

david

 

[Al M.]

Al, whatever your intentions for this post you're doing your friend and others a disservice by ignoring the facts. Mine and I venture to say most people's replies have nothing to do with what you're saying below.



Sorry Ian for opening this up again, it's not for arguing with anyone but I think that it will be helpful to you.

Fact is Al that Ian has been dissatisfied with his system for a while and repeatedly shared it here and on Myles' Audionirvana site. We know he's tried various things and multiple gear changes the LP 2.1 was just another effort. Based on Ian's comments IME simply blaming the phono stage's output is the wrong conclusion. From years of experience I can guarantee that aside from any gear related matters or other setup issues the front end wasn't optimized. At this level 1/10 of a gram a micrometer or slight deviation of tracking angle will result in poor performance.

One can blame anything they want or attribute things to personal tastes but fact remains that irrespective of anyone's feelings towards the Lamm removing it didn't bring about or restore a state of bliss...

david

David,

Ian's dissatisfaction or not has little to do with the essence of my post you replied to, which strikes a broader topic.

 

[MadFloyd]

Hi Ian

I agree about no system being perfect. I also agree that certain people's ears respond best to some components and just the opposite in others. That's what makes the hobby fun.

I also understand your thought to introduce tubes somewhere in the system to achieve a certain goal.

However, as you say you've been there and done that and at the end of the day you still prefer your gear. I understand that as well as renaining brand loyal and moving up in that brand to achieve your goal.

So all in all Ian I laud you for your experimentation. Now it's time to accept that with whatever deficiencies you might perceive to be a problem you still love your system. For me that's what it's about.

Thank you, Steve. You are ever the kind diplomat.

For the record, my Pass goals weren't so much me being brand loyal as much as they just seemed like obvious upgrades.

 

[MadFloyd]

David, Christian:

I lost my temper yesterday; I shouldn't have. My sincere apologies.

 

[ddk]

David, Christian:

I lost my temper yesterday; I shouldn't have. My sincere apologies.

No problem Ian, all good here , thank you!

david

 

[rockitman]

David, Christian:

I lost my temper yesterday; I shouldn't have. My sincere apologies.

Don't sweat it Ian. This is a passionate hobby. Completely understandable.

 

[kleinbje]

Hi Jeff,

I still have and enjoy my LP2 deluxe also with WE tubes, LP1 is different no 6x4 and no tube rolling needed. The LP1 is very well balanced and I don't feel the need to change anything but if one must I recommend swapping out the 12AX7s in the power supply.

david

David, I was curious what 6X4 you use(d) with your lp2, having purchased second hand, what is the stock 6X4? I feel like I should hear it at least once