Barry Ober was extremely helpful to me in setting up my pair of F113s. He's one of the good guys!
Lee
Lee
The JL Audio CR-1 analog vs TacT digital crossover
- Thread starter marty
- Start date
I finally had an opportunity to spend some time with the recommended bass test CD recommended by JL Audio's Barry Ober. First, it is much more than a bass test CD. It is a thorough systems set-up disc with detailed instructions in a very complete and thorough manner (5 pages, double-sided). But for bass? OMG! There are selections on this CD that are jaw dropping. I mean, I thought I knew of a few good bass demo tracks, but I am an amateur compared to what these guys have wrought. The bass selections contain both musical pieces as well as an assortment of sonic spectaculars. However, today I do need to inspect my house foundation for potential cracks
Not just highly recommended for bass set-up with subs, but essential for any system set-up. It can be found here. This is surely the best 18 bucks I have ever spent for a test CD.
www.soundoctor.com/testcd
Not just highly recommended for bass set-up with subs, but essential for any system set-up. It can be found here. This is surely the best 18 bucks I have ever spent for a test CD. www.soundoctor.com/testcd
I was a TacT owner for years. The miniDSP room correction ability (Dirac) destroys the TacT room correction. And the ability to delay the signal is part of the solution.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED - and I think they have a 30day return policy if you don't like it!! And the cost is a killer $900 !!!!!
Don't you have Datasat with Dirac now, how's that going, have you gone Auro 3d yet?
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Marty.... do you still have the CR-1?
I have one on order (as well as 2 subs) and will start a long thread about my adventure so far!
I have one on order (as well as 2 subs) and will start a long thread about my adventure so far!
I too have read Barry Ober's website on bass and integrating subwoofers and have found it one of the most understandable explanations I've read. I have the CD, but haven't used it. I'm using both REW and the DSPeaker Dual Core Antimode 2.0 for measurement and DSP room correction. I have also found the miniDSP website to be exceptionally informative. You will also find these articles on FIR & IIR filters useful: (see http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/...se_response_filtering_in_sound_rein/pat-brown and its companion article : http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/a_useful_tool_creating_applying_fir_filters/pat-brown.
After spending many hours on measurements and listening, I believe that if you can smooth the low end frequency response with DSP, through the subs only, (primarily by reducing peaks and keeping group delay below 80 Hz or so to < 40 msec where the ear is less sensitive to it), it doesn't matter if the mains and subs aren't exactly aligned. I really can't hear delay mismatch at these levels. Barry Ober, paraphrasing, says ' You may even like a little delay on the subs as it adds some ambiance'.
Why does all this matter? In my experience, I find running any DSP with the required delay on the mains for time alignment results in an audible reduction in overall transparency due to all the extra circuitry and signal processing you've added. I've even tried a high end linear power supply on the DSP. While that improved the sound, the end resulting loss of immediacy was still too much of tradeoff for time alignment benefits I couldn't hear or appreciate. It's possible miniDSP or Tact is way less opaque than DSPeaker, but I doubt it.
After spending many hours on measurements and listening, I believe that if you can smooth the low end frequency response with DSP, through the subs only, (primarily by reducing peaks and keeping group delay below 80 Hz or so to < 40 msec where the ear is less sensitive to it), it doesn't matter if the mains and subs aren't exactly aligned. I really can't hear delay mismatch at these levels. Barry Ober, paraphrasing, says ' You may even like a little delay on the subs as it adds some ambiance'.
Why does all this matter? In my experience, I find running any DSP with the required delay on the mains for time alignment results in an audible reduction in overall transparency due to all the extra circuitry and signal processing you've added. I've even tried a high end linear power supply on the DSP. While that improved the sound, the end resulting loss of immediacy was still too much of tradeoff for time alignment benefits I couldn't hear or appreciate. It's possible miniDSP or Tact is way less opaque than DSPeaker, but I doubt it.
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I am fairly certain you can use the phase control on the CR1 to adjust the timing difference between your subs and mains. In my system, the subs (JL IWS) are 3.5' behind my left and right speakers (Magico S3s). (I put them there because they provided the best response in that position.). Sound travels at 1116 ft/s, so it takes 3.13ms. At 80Hz, 3.13ms is .25 cycles, which means a phase angle of 90 degrees. This should provide time alignment and smooth amplitude integration. A more precise way to make this adjustment is to reverse the phase of your speakers, play an 80Hz tone and adjust the phase until you get a null when you listen (or measure with a SPL meter) half way between the speakers and the subs. Then correct the phase of your speakers and you should be good to go.
Yes I still have the CR-1 and it is integral to my system. (see http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...my-last-great-loudspeaker&p=429261#post429261)
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