LampizatOr Baltic 3

[Sablon Audio]

Some notes on the RFT before I hand them back to their owner.

- Beefy warm sound with in-room presence. Maybe somewhat condensed by the soundstage being a bit smaller than some.
- Open clear top end with nice ambient / textural feel.
- Mellifluous tonality. Does it sound a little too beautiful, like it is lingering admiring its own reflection?
- Reasonable musicality and quite detailed without being stark or etched.
- Transients are a bit soft for my personal liking and a punchier rectifier might better complement it.

An upper echelon overall performance and enjoyable with it.


Next up…..

 

[Golum]

Some notes on the RFT before I hand them back to their owner.

- Beefy warm sound with in-room presence. Maybe somewhat condensed by the soundstage being a bit smaller than some.
- Open clear top end with nice ambient / textural feel.
- Mellifluous tonality. Does it sound a little too beautiful, like it is lingering admiring its own reflection?
- Reasonable musicality and quite detailed without being stark or etched.
- Transients are a bit soft for my personal liking and a punchier rectifier might better complement it.

An upper echelon overall performance and enjoyable with it.


Next up…..

View attachment 105084

….and after a while it looks like this

 

[Sablon Audio]

G, this one looks great with the lights on

I had a quick listen and it sounds pretty promising but I suspect the resistor in the adapter will need a fair bit of burning in

 

[roadCingKlassik]

An earlier post claims the 6SN7 slots provide 80% of the “music” Sooo ..... I’ve rolled one pair of my cherished WWII favs
Eva Cassidy Live At Blues Ally never sounded better

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

An earlier post claims the 6SN7 slots provide 80% of the “music” Sooo ..... I’ve rolled one pair of my cherished WWII favs
Eva Cassidy Live At Blues Ally never sounded better

I would not underestimate those other 20% though... you might even be surprised how much difference the other tubes actually can make.

Lovely tubes though, I regret selling my metal Sylvania's....

 

[Sablon Audio]

To circle back to the Valvo az1 after 4 days burn in, I must say that this is a super rectifier. In combination with the rft 6sn7, there’s a punchy sound with great presence and texture. Interestingly, the rft sound more neutral and better controlled than they did when used with the Bendix, where they were somewhat euphonic / romantic.

Nice sweet-spot this but, ever restless, I have gone and ordered a TFK RGN2004…

Today’s dream team

 

[Sablon Audio]

And for today’s journey, Tungsram ecc40. I had actually intended to try these as phase splitters in my Levante instead of ecc81 but made the schoolboy error of ordering the wrong adapters. Since I already had some ecc40/6sn7 adapters, I thought that I would slap them into the Baltic instead of the RFT to get some burn-in. A very quick listen suggests a highly articulate sound which should grow in scale after a few days use.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I can add a little to the ECC40 story here, as suggested by Mark (thanks again and again!) reading up a bit on this old predecessor to E80CC got me very curious indeed! I was lucky(?) to buy the right adapter though and could swap out the Tungsram E80CC nickel tubes in my B3, which is a great tube and to be honest I wasn't even sure that I wanted to replace it, but curiosity took over! Also making the tubes fit in those adapters was a pain to say the least with fear of breaking it and I was almost about to give up, but I'm glad I didn't!

I have a Siemens (Philips made) version from 1951 with metal base so not exactly the same tube as above. I'm a few days in on them and I get a super smooth, sweet and liquid sound, a lot of bass and dynamics, and what has also been pointed out to me perhaps a bit of a "Philips smearing", but I still think it works! It creates a very fun to listen sound! Maybe not the most neutral in the world. It might be a bit too much of the good stuff together with the Bendix recti so I'm looking forward to trying some other options there, but for now I'm just enjoying this ride...

Family photo! From the back: Siemens ECC40 metal base, RCA 6F8G and last but not least, Bendix 6106. A lovely gang!

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

if I'm not mistaken, and if my googling has served me well, it seems that ECC40 was actually the standard tube in Level 4 DAC's? Maybe someone more experienced Lampi guy remembers this? I used to own a L4, but at the time I was not ready to experiment with tube rolling and never got that far, I remember I thought it was clever that the tubes was exposed from the bottom of the DAC though.

 

[Sablon Audio]

if I'm not mistaken, and if my googling has served me well, it seems that ECC40 was actually the standard tube in Level 4 DAC's? Maybe someone more experienced Lampi guy remembers this? I used to own a L4, but at the time I was not ready to experiment with tube rolling and never got that far, I remember I thought it was clever that the tubes was exposed from the bottom of the DAC though.

It possible at some stage in the production cycle though both my l4 and l4.5 ran 6sn7 off a 6v rectifier

 

[mourip]

To circle back to the Valvo az1 after 4 days burn in, I must say that this is a super rectifier. In combination with the rft 6sn7, there’s a punchy sound with great presence and texture. Interestingly, the rft sound more neutral and better controlled than they did when used with the Bendix, where they were somewhat euphonic / romantic.

Nice sweet-spot this but, ever restless, I have gone and ordered a TFK RGN2004…

Today’s dream team

Sounds like a good experiment. It looks like the AZ1 is made for a 4v heater supply though.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Sounds like a good experiment. It looks like the AZ1 is made for a 4v heater supply though.

Yes, there’s a drop down resistor in the adapter

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

maybe using adapters, or even adapters that are indeed voltage converters with resistors in them is perhaps not where most of us begin our tube journeys, but after having read about and tried all (eh, at least many) of the "best" of a specific tube and then moving on to compatible variants can almost be even more exciting sometimes, especially when you realize that those variants rocks the socks of the best of the "other" ones, adapter or not. for example I think it's very difficult for any of the top 12au7/ecc82 tubes to even come near the performance of the best 12bh7/80cc/ecc40 tubes. of course it's always a good thing to get approval from Lampi if one is planning to go sailing(!) on deep water, but to me it feels like Lampi's was built to roll tubes and are not so easily offended.

more than 2 years after I got my B3 I'm still being amazed, surprised and blown away by tube changes to this DAC! when I read what people in some other forums sometimes are saying about tube rolling I just can't relate, things like it doesn't make much of a difference etc, and of course there are those tubes also, just like with cables or other things can be changed to something else. sometimes I feel the Lampi is perhaps simply responding better than other equipment, but I don't know abut that. just as with cables there are indeed different levels on tubes, brands, models etc, but to find those differences and better performing tubes sometimes one has to be brave and look outside of the box. sometimes it works great, sometimes maybe not, sometimes your taste is different etc. I'm very thankful that people are experimenting and looking for new things though, daring to challenge and question, it's the best way forward. I must say that @Sablon Audio has done an amazing job here for a long time and it's super exciting to follow along!

tubes easily trend on forums, and reading threads from 10 or even 20 years back you can sometimes see that some tubes keep coming back every now and then. still, you never know how a specific tube will perform in your precious Lampi or with the combination of tubes you prefer, or think you prefer. I've come to learn to not hold on to my beliefs too strong but rather keep an open mind about trying new things and so far it has paid off over and over again. I'm definitely no tube expert and I'm not sure if it's even possible to become one these days, I think there's always something new to learn, and that's exciting!

In the coming weeks I'm looking forward to trying some rectifiers I've never heard of before... just because... they're apparently great!

 

[Sablon Audio]

Thanks for your kind words Rikard and I appreciate having you as my partner in crime on this journey. For me, this has been an educational experience and I still don’t feel that I have arrived at the final destination. Many of my purchases have been sideways steps, offering an alternative style of presentation rather than better overall performance, but some have just been outright better. Many of the well known ‘grail’ tubes have imo been overly hyped and lesser known, often older, alternatives have excelled. Some of these successes have gone beyond what many equipment upgrades deliver. I hope that newcomers take the time to read through this thread.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

thank you, and the pleasure is all mine (ok, maybe shared pleasure!), but the winners are all of us...

Many of my purchases have been sideways steps, offering an alternative style of presentation rather than better overall performance, but some have just been outright better. Many of the well known ‘grail’ tubes have imo been overly hyped and lesser known, often older, alternatives have excelled. Some of these successes have gone beyond what many equipment upgrades deliver.

indeed, and we can't expect all tubes to be better than the previous ones, that would be too good to be true and we would have to start question other things in our heads. sometimes it's still worth it and equally satisfying to verify that your current favorite still holds up. I think putting some of the hyped and "legendary" old time favorites that everybody rants about up against some €50 competition takes courage to stand up and say, hey, look at this one instead! I can myself have a problem with this sometimes, I've been willing to pay good money for some tubes over the years and sometimes it's hard to accept that this new one nobody mentioned to me actually outperforms the other, or even listening to that person who seems to "know" but only talks about boring tubes I haven't read about in my favorite forum. but if it sounds better, then that's how it is. and even if we're always cheering for David against Goliath, old nice tubes usually don't come for free and it can still be worth paying for the nice ones. like the last rectis currently on order, I hope the €450 one is worth it, but it would be awesome if the €60 one gets close to it. i'm completely inconsistent how I think... but at least I'm open for all possibilities... and if it's good, it's good!

 

[Powerman]

TV

thank you, and the pleasure is all mine (ok, maybe shared pleasure!), but the winners are all of us...



indeed, and we can't expect all tubes to be better than the previous ones, that would be too good to be true and we would have to start question other things in our heads. sometimes it's still worth it and equally satisfying to verify that your current favorite still holds up. I think putting some of the hyped and "legendary" old time favorites that everybody rants about up against some €50 competition takes courage to stand up and say, hey, look at this one instead! I can myself have a problem with this sometimes, I've been willing to pay good money for some tubes over the years and sometimes it's hard to accept that this new one nobody mentioned to me actually outperforms the other, or even listening to that person who seems to "know" but only talks about boring tubes I haven't read about in my favorite forum. but if it sounds better, then that's how it is. and even if we're always cheering for David against Goliath, old nice tubes usually don't come for free and it can still be worth paying for the nice ones. like the last rectis currently on order, I hope the €450 one is worth it, but it would be awesome if the €60 one gets close to it. i'm completely inconsistent how I think... but at least I'm open for all possibilities... and if it's good, it's good!

I will say... Just for me... And my admittedly limited experience... I fall into the camp of not that big of improvement. There are the real improvements... Resolution, clarity, noise, air, stage... I have changed tubes and got improvements. However, much of what I have gotten really falls into simy personal preference. A preference for FR, top end, bottom end, warm, cold... For me, I generally like every thing to be good, but not a lot are good at everything. I certainly have my preference for what I like. I just don't have the desire to find how many tubes can sound merely different. And while I can agree there are flavor of the months and hyped tubes and hidden gems... I do think there is enough knowledge out there that there are pretty well established consensus on most NOS tubes to make some educated guesses. I think new tubes are interesting in that they may be close to NOS, but inexpensive to try. But that is just me. We get to play with what ever we like.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I will say... Just for me... And my admittedly limited experience... I fall into the camp of not that big of improvement. There are the real improvements... Resolution, clarity, noise, air, stage... I have changed tubes and got improvements. However, much of what I have gotten really falls into simy personal preference. A preference for FR, top end, bottom end, warm, cold... For me, I generally like every thing to be good, but not a lot are good at everything. I certainly have my preference for what I like. I just don't have the desire to find how many tubes can sound merely different. And while I can agree there are flavor of the months and hyped tubes and hidden gems... I do think there is enough knowledge out there that there are pretty well established consensus on most NOS tubes to make some educated guesses. I think new tubes are interesting in that they may be close to NOS, but inexpensive to try. But that is just me. We get to play with what ever we like.

the thing with better sound is that you don't know it until you hear it. I don't know how many times I've felt that how can things possibly sound any better than this, or now it doesn't need to get any better etc. and then you try something else and forget all about it. someone once told me to not spend time and money on "sidegrading", when you want to upgrade you want UP, several steps! that could mean spending more money, but way too often I see people comparing very similar things in the same price range and maybe that's why the difference is not bigger. also, every system is different, some are more revealing and transparent than others. a "problem" with discussing things online is that we all have different angles and perspectives.

there's absolutely a lot of knowledgeable people out there that we need to listen to, talking to a serious tube dealer can be very interesting or even with people who have been rolling tubes since before I was born, it's not like I'm coming up with new tubes myself and I don't consider myself an expert in any way. tubes is not a new thing, and many of the best ones are over 80 years old and not something that was invented last week.

I'm not really interested in new tubes, old vintage tubes is in general the way to go, there might be a few exceptions, but when it comes to tubes older is usually better. that also applies for specific tube models, an RCA tube is not the same as just another RCA tube, an RCA built in 1950 is usually more interesting to me than if it was built in 1960. it's not only about the years of course, the specs for tubes are very different and they produce different results, the tricky part is to figure out which one you want, and then how to get it.

although, even if people are skilled and knowledgable and have a lot of experience, a lot of people are unfortunately sometimes stuck with old truths and have never really explored anything outside of the regular path. just as an example when I tried e80cc instead of ecc82/12au7 I wrote about it on a local forum and one of the most experienced and respected tube guys I know actually called me up and warned me about this tube and told me to be very careful. he really wanted to advise me to NOT use that tube. but confirming with Lampi it turns out it's perfectly fine to use both e80cc and 12bh7 instead of ecc82/12au7 in Lampis. today they even ship B4 with 12bh7. for a reason. it's not like B4 is a completely new design than B3, they only decided to change supplied tubes to something better. if you just do a quick google you'll find a lot of testimonials about people preferring these tubes instead of ecc82/12au7, it's not something that someone came up with yesterday. old knowledge, but it still needs to be brought back into the light every now and then.

having an open mind and being curious to explore and do your research will reward you with a better performing DAC. but it's also perfectly fine to just stick to the standard tubes and don't worry about it.

 

[Powerman]

the thing with better sound is that you don't know it until you hear it. I don't know how many times I've felt that how can things possibly sound any better than this, or now it doesn't need to get any better etc. and then you try something else and forget all about it. someone once told me to not spend time and money on "sidegrading", when you want to upgrade you want UP, several steps! that could mean spending more money, but way too often I see people comparing very similar things in the same price range and maybe that's why the difference is not bigger. also, every system is different, some are more revealing and transparent than others. a "problem" with discussing things online is that we all have different angles and perspectives.

there's absolutely a lot of knowledgeable people out there that we need to listen to, talking to a serious tube dealer can be very interesting or even with people who have been rolling tubes since before I was born, it's not like I'm coming up with new tubes myself and I don't consider myself an expert in any way. tubes is not a new thing, and many of the best ones are over 80 years old and not something that was invented last week.

I'm not really interested in new tubes, old vintage tubes is in general the way to go, there might be a few exceptions, but when it comes to tubes older is usually better. that also applies for specific tube models, an RCA tube is not the same as just another RCA tube, an RCA built in 1950 is usually more interesting to me than if it was built in 1960. it's not only about the years of course, the specs for tubes are very different and they produce different results, the tricky part is to figure out which one you want, and then how to get it.

although, even if people are skilled and knowledgable and have a lot of experience, a lot of people are unfortunately sometimes stuck with old truths and have never really explored anything outside of the regular path. just as an example when I tried e80cc instead of ecc82/12au7 I wrote about it on a local forum and one of the most experienced and respected tube guys I know actually called me up and warned me about this tube and told me to be very careful. he really wanted to advise me to NOT use that tube. but confirming with Lampi it turns out it's perfectly fine to use both e80cc and 12bh7 instead of ecc82/12au7 in Lampis. today they even ship B4 with 12bh7. for a reason. it's not like B4 is a completely new design than B3, they only decided to change supplied tubes to something better. if you just do a quick google you'll find a lot of testimonials about people preferring these tubes instead of ecc82/12au7, it's not something that someone came up with yesterday. old knowledge, but it still needs to be brought back into the light every now and then.

having an open mind and being curious to explore and do your research will reward you with a better performing DAC. but it's also perfectly fine to just stick to the standard tubes and don't worry about it.

So I have a LTA Z40 integrated. I had RCA black plates in my pre. I tried clear tops. Had my others figured out. Suggested Mazdas to try... Way better than RCA.... Actually made my others better than they were. That was a positive experience.

I haven't heard of 12BH7s before this. That's not saying much. But I do know 12AU/AX/AT is pretty prolific. I have a few 12AU7s to try... Mazda, Mullard, RCA, Telefunken. Figured I would start there cause I don't have a clue about 12 BH7s.... Nor do I have a bunch of money to spend now either.

 

[tedwoods]

if I'm not mistaken, and if my googling has served me well, it seems that ECC40 was actually the standard tube in Level 4 DAC's? Maybe someone more experienced Lampi guy remembers this? I used to own a L4, but at the time I was not ready to experiment with tube rolling and never got that far, I remember I thought it was clever that the tubes was exposed from the bottom of the DAC though.

I used to have such a DAC in the house... Back in the day there were various different L4 designs. Lampi has mentioned they were trying to please customers by using tube sets and components customers had an affinity for, but of course they were also evolving their designs. Personally, I have heard of four iterations of the L4. One with dual 5687's, one with ECC40's, one with the ECC81/82 combo and one with 6SN7's. I had briefly owned the first three. The ECC40 is predominantly an 8 pin successor of the octal 6SN7 valve. I have a Dutch military (NATO) adapter from 1952 (yes, they were using adapters back then too...) that its purposely built to substitute a 6SN7 with an ECC40.

 

[mourip]

More tube rolling...

I am fully inserted into the rabbit hole. I have about 10 rectifiers to try or that I have tried. Currently a nice Bendix 6102 in rotation.
I have a number of 6SN7/12SN7 and equivalents: 7N7/2C50/VT99/ and the usual 6SN7s. Currently 6F8Gs in rotation.

I have a pair of ECC40s on the way with adapters to try in the 6SN7 and 12AU7 positions.

So I have one question. Several folks have mentioned trying a 12BH7 in the 12AU7 spot but no one seems to have described its sound or to have left it in play as their go-to tube. Any feedback on that tube's sonic attributes?