LampizatOr Baltic 3

[Ron Resnick]

Actually, he was not teaching you how to cook, but just how to sample the different dishes in a buffet so that you can load the plate with your choice

Yes, that is what Shakti very kindly was doing for everyone. But in this very particular situation I just wanted to sit down and have the food brought to me.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, that is what Shakti very kindly was doing for everyone. But in this very particular situation I just wanted to sit down and have the food brought to me.

You will always remain hungry

 

[Ron Resnick]

You will always remain hungry

Maybe on the digital side. But on the analog side, I intend to stuff myself every evening. And you know how much I can eat.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe on the digital side. But on the analog side, I intend to stuff myself every evening. And you know how much I can eat.

I enjoy Japanese, Italian, Indian, fine dining, etc.

 

[dbeau]

Dear Juergen,

Thank you for reporting on your Baltic-3 tube rolling endeavors!

In this particular case I don't want to learn about the ingredients, or how to cook the recipe in the kitchen; I just want to sit down in the dining room and eat. What specific tube replacement(s) for the Baltic-3 would you recommend if I want to copy your achievement of replacing the stock tubes to "make the music even more involving and the voice . . . more magic"?

(Please suggest something where I don't have to get into finagling around with third-party adapter devices.)

And what basic streamer do you recommend for the Baltic-3? Is there any reason not to use the Innuos ZEN Mk3 or the ZENith Mk3?

Thank you.

Ron

RON,
Thank you for asking this. I have a B3 on order and next step is a worthy streamer and even after a lot of web/forum search a top streamer remains unsettled for me. First thought is the GulfStream/SuperKomputer as matched but Fikus has not put out much info on the updated improvements (?) or even another mention of the GulfStream so I followed Innous ZENith info and am left with questions there too. I'm hoping someone here will step up to more thoroughly advise you and subsequently myself.
The Taiko Extreme is an extreme $$ jump for me

 

[shakti]

RON,
Thank you for asking this. I have a B3 on order and next step is a worthy streamer and even after a lot of web/forum search a top streamer remains unsettled for me. First thought is the GulfStream/SuperKomputer as matched but Fikus has not put out much info on the updated improvements (?) or even another mention of the GulfStream so I followed Innous ZENith info and am left with questions there too. I'm hoping someone here will step up to more thoroughly advise you and subsequently myself.
The Taiko Extreme is an extreme $$ jump for me

coming from analog systems ,
I am always focussed on the primary source quality, so I changed from

1. Silent Angel Bonn N8 plus Innuos Zenith III 4TB plus Innuos Phoenix USB plus external 3x 4TB Melco NAS (USB connection)
=> Brinkmann Nyquist II DAC

to a different approach

2. Innuos PhoenixNET plus Antipodes K50 (integrated 16TB) (AES/EBU connection)
=> Lampizator Baltic III DAC

and I am happy with the improvement.

Both setup are similar in budget

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Shakti,

The PhoenixNET is not needed to get music, correct (it just improves aspect of the computer connection)?

And the K50 is a substitute for the ZENith 3?

Can you please isolate for us the sonic characteristics of the Innuous Zenith 3 versus the K50 using the Baltic-3?

Thank you very much!

 

[dbeau]

Dear Shakti,

The PhoenixNET is not needed to get music, correct (it just improves aspect of the computer connection)?

And the K50 is a substitute for the ZENith 3?

Can you please isolate for us the sonic characteristics of the Innuous Zenith 3 versus the K50 using the Baltic-3?

Thank you very much!

Thank you both - am following this closely and appreciatively

 

[shakti]

Dear Shakti,

The PhoenixNET is not needed to get music, correct (it just improves aspect of the computer connection)?

And the K50 is a substitute for the ZENith 3?

Can you please isolate for us the sonic characteristics of the Innuous Zenith 3 versus the K50 using the Baltic-3?

Thank you very much!

Ron,
it is difficult to separate the effects.

K50 and Zenith do some things in common, some not, I will try to explain.

Both units have 2 data sources,
- external Ethernet (LAN) (for NAS, Tidal, Qobuz streaming, Roon)
- Internal SSD (for your personal music file storage

Both units are used as Roon Core server
- Ethernet connection must be on all the time

Both units can "convert" the data to serve the following outputs:
- Ethernet (LAN) in different protocols
- USB


To actual listen to music, this USB or LAN transmitted data must be translated into files a DAC can work with,
if it is DSD or PCM. The most DACs use native PCM and transfer DSD to PCM. Some DACs have native DSD and PCM on board and route the data accordingly. The conversion of the Data is a big performance driver in the different DAC Designs.
Some do use asynchronous USB , some not and so on.

My former Nyquist had 2 DAC chips integrated and was able to read Ethernet (LAN) or USB data as well, using a Brinkman specific USB / LAN board. But many DACs do use standard OEM boards, may be tuned with an extra precise clock module.

This is, where the difference from K50 to Innuos comes into place. Antipodes philosophy is to split the Musikserver and the Musikplayer into 2 different units in one chassis. They even have different Ethernet IDs. The internal Music player than feeds a digital output board which converts the data into I2S, SPDIF or AES/EBU format on a high quality. This native PCM data can easily be understood by any DAC. The Computer Power and the Clock quality of the K50 is better, than the OEM boards the most DAC producer choose for this function.

In principle the K50 can bring former DAC heroes, like Wadia 27iX back to life, as now USB input is needed.

(If you believe, your DAC has a perfect interface for this function, the K40 with USB and LAN output only would be the choice, if you own a streamer with only LAN input, the K30 with LAN output only is the choice.)


Because of this differences in functionality and chosen connection, I cannot compare Innuos and Antipodes in my old and new set up. In my new set up the K50 delivers a quality, which is in correlation with the higher price, so it is now over all much better than Zenith plus Nyquist. The direct competitor for the Music Server would be the Innuos Statement. I never did a shoot out between the two, as I was looking for a proper AES/EBU output.

As the new set up is more transparent, the data quality coming through the LAN connection becomes more vital. I compared Melco S-100, Bonn N8 and Innuos Phoenix Switch prior K50. In my personal set up the Innuos Phoenix NET was the best choice to improve the incoming signal. Since than I even like Tidal or Qobuz streamed music, before I always preferred the SSD stored files.


Lampi DACs like to burn Tubes in relatively short hours, my gear is running very often 8 to 12 hours a day, so I do use a solid state DAC in parallel to just give me some back ground music during the day @home (Corona home office times...)

My old Wadia X32 DAC is playing wonderful with K50, which underlines, that some old DACs can do real music,
if feeded with a very good digital signal. I never tried an old DAC with clock input, as the K50 provides a master clock output.
Old DCS or Esoteric DACs for example can use this connection.


Coming back to Baltic 3.

I do prefer the AES/EBU input over the USB input.

(Using for both connection a Wireworld Platinum silver cable)

I have both ways connected, as sometimes I like to listen to native DSD files, which is not possible with AES/EBU.

Antipodes recommend to connect this USB cable only when needed, otherwise it would compromise the quality of the AES/EBU connection, as the USB cable can carry distortions, even if the input is not chosen.

Hope that helps

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,
it is difficult to separate the effects.

K50 and Zenith do some things in common, some not, I will try to explain.

Both units have 2 data sources,
- external Ethernet (LAN) (for NAS, Tidal, Qobuz streaming, Roon)
- Internal SSD (for your personal music file storage

Both units are used as Roon Core server
- Ethernet connection must be on all the time

Both units can "convert" the data to serve the following outputs:
- Ethernet (LAN) in different protocols
- USB


To actual listen to music, this USB or LAN transmitted data must be translated into files a DAC can work with,
if it is DSD or PCM. The most DACs use native PCM and transfer DSD to PCM. Some DACs have native DSD and PCM on board and route the data accordingly. The conversion of the Data is a big performance driver in the different DAC Designs.
Some do use asynchronous USB , some not and so on.

My former Nyquist had 2 DAC chips integrated and was able to read Ethernet (LAN) or USB data as well, using a Brinkman specific USB / LAN board. But many DACs do use standard OEM boards, may be tuned with an extra precise clock module.

This is, where the difference from K50 to Innuos comes into place. Antipodes philosophy is to split the Musikserver and the Musikplayer into 2 different units in one chassis. They even have different Ethernet IDs. The internal Music player than feeds a digital output board which converts the data into I2S, SPDIF or AES/EBU format on a high quality. This native PCM data can easily be understood by any DAC. The Computer Power and the Clock quality of the K50 is better, than the OEM boards the most DAC producer choose for this function.

In principle the K50 can bring former DAC heroes, like Wadia 27iX back to life, as now USB input is needed.

(If you believe, your DAC has a perfect interface for this function, the K40 with USB and LAN output only would be the choice, if you own a streamer with only LAN input, the K30 with LAN output only is the choice.)


Because of this differences in functionality and chosen connection, I cannot compare Innuos and Antipodes in my old and new set up. In my new set up the K50 delivers a quality, which is in correlation with the higher price, so it is now over all much better than Zenith plus Nyquist. The direct competitor for the Music Server would be the Innuos Statement. I never did a shoot out between the two, as I was looking for a proper AES/EBU output.

As the new set up is more transparent, the data quality coming through the LAN connection becomes more vital. I compared Melco S-100, Bonn N8 and Innuos Phoenix Switch prior K50. In my personal set up the Innuos Phoenix NET was the best choice to improve the incoming signal. Since than I even like Tidal or Qobuz streamed music, before I always preferred the SSD stored files.


Lampi DACs like to burn Tubes in relatively short hours, my gear is running very often 8 to 12 hours a day, so I do use a solid state DAC in parallel to just give me some back ground music during the day @home (Corona home office times...)

My old Wadia X32 DAC is playing wonderful with K50, which underlines, that some old DACs can do real music,
if feeded with a very good digital signal. I never tried an old DAC with clock input, as the K50 provides a master clock output.
Old DCS or Esoteric DACs for example can use this connection.


Coming back to Baltic 3.

I do prefer the AES/EBU input over the USB input.

(Using for both connection a Wireworld Platinum silver cable)

I have both ways connected, as sometimes I like to listen to native DSD files, which is not possible with AES/EBU.

Antipodes recommend to connect this USB cable only when needed, otherwise it would compromise the quality of the AES/EBU connection, as the USB cable can carry distortions, even if the input is not chosen.

Hope that helps

Dear Juergen,

Thank you very much for this extremely comprehensive and informative reply to my questions!

Computers are a bit anathema to me (even as I type this on a handheld computer) so the data source, conversion and protocols discussion went over my head, but I think I understand the general concepts.

As the K50 is quite a bit more expensive than the ZENith Mk3 I think ZENith Mk3 + Baltic-3 about the right place for me to start my digital set-up.

Thank you, again!

 

[shakti]

Zenith III plus Baltic III will be a better than great start into the digital world of exploring new music.
Try to find the budget for one of this entry level LAN switches like Silent Angel Bonn N8 to improve the LAN signal prior your Zenith. Even a $100 standard Buffalo 2008 will better the LAN signal and will make Tidal and Qobuz more enjoyable.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The prospective buyer of my Musical Fidelity kW SACD player backed out of the deal, so it looks like I will have a disc player source to compare to the streaming source (I will use Qobuz (without Roon)).

 

[xdaggersoul]

The prospective buyer of my Musical Fidelity kW SACD player backed out of the deal, so it looks like I will have a disc player source to compare to the streaming source (I will use Qobuz (without Roon)).

The kW line of products are incredible! I am using a kW550 amp and will not be changing it anytime soon.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The kW line of products are incredible! I am using a kW550 amp and will not be changing it anytime soon.

I think you are correct!

But the kW SACD is large, heavy and clunky to use merely as a transport (for that I would prefer a belt-drive CEC TL5).

And the kW's digital output is only for CDs (not SACDs).

And many of our digital playback members now report that digital streaming can sound better than playing digital discs.

And, most of all, the main reason I want a digital playback capability is to be able to hand an iPad to visitors and let them find their favorite songs on Qobuz.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

As for tubes these are currently my favorites. I'm sorry to say but the vt-99 is among them also for me.

- Tung-Sol vt-99
- Melz 1578 metal base 6h8c (1979)
- Sylvania 6sn7w metal base (1940's)

I couldn't resist testing the vt-99 after reading the comments here and just ordered the adapter from Poland. I also tried the Sylvania vt-99 but I think I like the Tung-Sol slightly more right now.

Melz 1578 that has been hyped for years and everybody has been raving about I just had to try as well, and at first I almost gave up on them, it felt way too "correct" and stiff to me, boring in other words, but after a few weeks burning in they opened up a lot and became a big favorite.

I'm currently using the Tung-Sol vt-99 with a pair of Adzam 12au7/ecc82 and KR 5u4g RK edition rectifier. I have a not even broken in Psvane Acme 274B recti for sale if anyone is interested (I'm in Europe).

 

[xdaggersoul]

I think you are correct!

But the kW SACD is large, heavy and clunky to use merely as a transport (for that I would prefer a belt-drive CEC TL5).

And the kW's digital output is only for CDs (not SACDs).

And many of our digital playback members now report that digital streaming can sound better than playing digital discs.

And, most of all, the main reason I want a digital playback capability is to be able to hand an iPad to visitors and let them find their favorite songs on Qobuz.

Yes with better streaming gear nowadays, the gap between CD and streaming narrows. I highly recommend JS audio repairs in the UK if you would like to improve your kW unit, had mine upgraded and it was a world of difference.

 

[xdaggersoul]

As for tubes these are currently my favorites. I'm sorry to say but the vt-99 is among them also for me.

- Tung-Sol vt-99
- Melz 1578 metal base 6h8c (1979)
- Sylvania 6sn7w metal base (1940's)

I couldn't resist testing the vt-99 after reading the comments here and just ordered the adapter from Poland. I also tried the Sylvania vt-99 but I think I like the Tung-Sol slightly more right now.

Melz 1578 that has been hyped for years and everybody has been raving about I just had to try as well, and at first I almost gave up on them, it felt way too "correct" and stiff to me, boring in other words, but after a few weeks burning in they opened up a lot and became a big favorite.

I'm currently using the Tung-Sol vt-99 with a pair of Adzam 12au7/ecc82 and KR 5u4g RK edition rectifier. I have a not even broken in Psvane Acme 274B recti for sale if anyone is interested (I'm in Europe).

I ordered the vt99 adapter from Poland 2 days ago to experiment with 6F8G/VT99 in place of the stock Psvane hifi 6sn7. What are some of the differences u heard compared to the stock tubes?

 

[shakti]

I ordered the vt99 adapter from Poland 2 days ago to experiment with 6F8G/VT99 in place of the stock Psvane hifi 6sn7. What are some of the differences u heard compared to the stock tubes?

In my set up the RCA VT99 shows more energy than the 6sn7 tubes I had tried.

A little bit like changing a GG1 from PX4 to 242 type of tube. Without the huge Gain difference.

As the output tube will most likely change the output impedance of B3,
the effect of changing the tube type might differ by PreAmp in use.

 

[xdaggersoul]

In my set up the RCA VT99 shows more energy than the 6sn7 tubes I had tried.

A little bit like changing a GG1 from PX4 to 242 type of tube. Without the huge Gain difference.

As the output tube will most likely change the output impedance of B3,
the effect of changing the tube type might differ by PreAmp in use.

Thanks!

 

[Nikko]

My Lampi Baltic 3 DAC/pre-amp (with volume control) has arrived. My sincere thanks to Greg Drygala at GPoint Audio for making this happen. I think I have the first unit like this w/wide.

Whilst waiting for delivery of my unit, Greg loaned me a regular Baltic 3. Since I have no pre-amp, I controlled volume digitally via HQPlayer. My new Lampi takes volume control into the analog domain which has brought more drive and clarity to the sound (not that it was particularly lacking beforehand). Although I am at the beginning of break-in, this unit is already playing better than the loaner B3 by a wide margin.

And I've begun tube rolling with a PSvane rectifier and a pair of Sylvania 6SNGT tubes (the latter are much better than the stock Psvane 6SN7s).

What a treat! Very highly recommended and if you're in the UK, Greg is a top bloke to deal with.

Nikko