PM me if you want a backup set of Telefunken c3gS (the special S version)I third this testimony. I am also using the same set to great effect. For me the Stillpoints Ultra 6 and this tube set have been revolutionary. I am done with tube rolling for a while (phew)…. May get a back up set though
LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise
- Thread starter Golum
- Start date
I think the RS1003 is a big beautiful tube with excellent tone and dynamics, but it has virtually no subtlety or nuance. You can easily understand why it would be a great tube for a Marshall guitar amplifier, but what it does to a piano just doesn't work for me. Far less depth, less layers of resolution and sense of space than a P17c, at least in my system. The RS1003 is a sledgehammer. The PC17c has the same bottom end power but the midrange is tool of finesse and sculpture compared to the Siemens. Instrument and female vocal harmonics float rather than remain rather stationary. Yes, it’s all system specific and the usual YMMV qualifiers. And remember these are not SRS551's but RS1003's although they do use Plasmod's adapters (which use the same Path resistors as Lazlo's adapters I believe) . I think its likely more of a tube issue than an adapter issue that effects my bias. However, if you think that's what a Steinway should sound like, we’ll just politely disagree. Both excellent tubes- just very different flavors.
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
It's all system specific , plain and simple.You pick your flavor and I'll pick mine. It's all good
For sure in regard to system specific. A hybrid setup like mine vs for example an all tube setup is going to translate /respond with totally different sonics. Then Throw in different amplification. Both RS1003/SRS551 in my system was like a BAD DAC DIRECT. Harsh, brittle, and destroyed the midrange. Laszlo told me right up front his exact words were Atomic Bombs. This is as perfect of example as to how tubes in one system may not translate the same in another...
It wouldn't be a stretch to think that the RS1003/SRS551 might be a best fit in a tube system (pre/power) whereas the P17c might be more satisfying in a SS system. Agree- it's all good. Pick your poison. Have we (hopefully) finally run out of pentodes to explore?
My system is hybrid. My monos are tube input/SS output. Excellent amps, btw.It wouldn't be a stretch to think that the RS1003/SRS551 might be a best fit in a tube system (pre/power) whereas the P17c might be more satisfying in a SS system. Agree- it's all good. Pick your poison. Have we (hopefully) finally run out of pentodes to explore?
Of course this will all be tuned to any system. People here have great ears and will find what works in their room for sure.
I am always excited to learn about what you guys are doing.
I third this testimony. I am also using the same set to great effect. For me the Stillpoints Ultra 6 and this tube set have been revolutionary. I am done with tube rolling for a while (phew)…. May get a back up set though
There are no resistors inside the RS adapters. We only use resistors for 4V rectifier tubes and for some exotic postal tube used in the Pacific.
I still prefer the SRS in my system with 2 huge SS ampsIt wouldn't be a stretch to think that the RS1003/SRS551 might be a best fit in a tube system (pre/power) whereas the P17c might be more satisfying in a SS system. Agree- it's all good. Pick your poison. Have we (hopefully) finally run out of pentodes to explore?
Another shoutout to @takacs75 Laszlo. He provided the TP adapters for P17C and is working hard to provide the adapters for the very rare WE437A tubes (with NOS sockets). Not only are the TP products stellar, the service from Laszlo & Tibor is also top-notch. Customers' satisfaction is guaranteed. You can buy with utmost confidence. BTW, I much prefer P17C to SRS551, but that's to my ears and in my system. No hat fits all; each to his own. The perfect match is never static but evolving, tubes and components all affecting each other in a holistic way.
BTW, I much prefer P17C to SRS551, but that's to my ears and in my system. No hat fits all; each to his own. The perfect match is never static but evolving, tubes and components all affecting each other in a holistic way.
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The idea of mixing the Pentodes quite bamboozled me for a while, but I decided that I should give it a try. I had already tried KT170, KT88 and KT77. I preferred KT170 because it gave a very good dimensional presentation with plenty of delicacy and refinement in the details. I also liked KT88 which were more reigned in but had greater warmth and body, so the idea of mixing the two of those to achieve a best blend was very appealing.
I run balanced out into my power amp and headphone amp so I figured I should start with KT170 on the right hand side and KT88 on the left and, happily, that gave me just what I wanted. It will be interesting to see whether switching sides has any/much impact but, as it stands, I have everything I liked about KT170 with a touch of added warmth and body. Given that I have a matched quad for each tube type, it‘s a great bonus that I also now have a duplicate set of matching backup tubes.
Thanks very much for the idea, I never would have tried that myself.
Edit - I am not a tube roller and the very complexity of it all nearly put me off from buying the Horizon. Once I heard it though, I had to swallow my resistance and was helped by comments like this from @Golum:
‘First of all what I need to say is that Horizon despite being ultimate tool for rolling nutheads is quite boring in this game as with any tube set I tried sounds fantastic. Even with on paper cheapest tubes basic threshold line is very high which in my experience with other Lampi DACs is not the case to this extent, so it may be easily said that this one is perfect DAC for non tube rollers. Plug/play and forget about it variant which is good’.
I run balanced out into my power amp and headphone amp so I figured I should start with KT170 on the right hand side and KT88 on the left and, happily, that gave me just what I wanted. It will be interesting to see whether switching sides has any/much impact but, as it stands, I have everything I liked about KT170 with a touch of added warmth and body. Given that I have a matched quad for each tube type, it‘s a great bonus that I also now have a duplicate set of matching backup tubes.
Thanks very much for the idea, I never would have tried that myself.
Edit - I am not a tube roller and the very complexity of it all nearly put me off from buying the Horizon. Once I heard it though, I had to swallow my resistance and was helped by comments like this from @Golum:
‘First of all what I need to say is that Horizon despite being ultimate tool for rolling nutheads is quite boring in this game as with any tube set I tried sounds fantastic. Even with on paper cheapest tubes basic threshold line is very high which in my experience with other Lampi DACs is not the case to this extent, so it may be easily said that this one is perfect DAC for non tube rollers. Plug/play and forget about it variant which is good’.
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Anyone been able to compare the RGN 2004 black mesh vs. silver? rspyder said he prefers the black, but so far hasn't said why. Thanks,
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Which, along with price, is why I'm looking at the 2004 for now. I have the silver mesh, as well as a seriously inferior solid plate, but the possibility of a black mesh makes me wonder what the difference is.
Has anyone else compared Valvo G2504 and Telefunken G2504 rectifiers? I may get the Valvo. Ian @plasmod3 compared and informed that TFN G2504 has 95% of the SQ of Valvo (which is way more expensive). Have an extra TFN RGN G2504 (1940s vintage, including the indispensable and wonderful TP adapter) that I could let go to fund further rolling (PM if interested).
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I have only compared the Tele G2504/WE56 to the Tele RGN2004/WE52 and preferred the later. The Tele G2504 is a good performer, but like the Valvo WE56 equivalent, its has a 2.5A filament. I have found that my SFR P17C "output" tubes respond better with the 2.0A filament of the RGN2004.
In short and based on some trial comparisons, there can be important synergy considerations between the rectifier and the pentodes that you are using - as I mentioned in an earlier thread. Therefore, in my humble opinion, it is best if the WBF member has compared the Tele and Valvo G2504s with the Pentodes you are using or plan to use. Ideally with the same converter tubes too.
In short and based on some trial comparisons, there can be important synergy considerations between the rectifier and the pentodes that you are using - as I mentioned in an earlier thread. Therefore, in my humble opinion, it is best if the WBF member has compared the Tele and Valvo G2504s with the Pentodes you are using or plan to use. Ideally with the same converter tubes too.
I've got both the Valvo G2504 and Telefunken RGN2504, 1940's vintage, and use and enjoy both, with a preference to the Valvo, but Telefunken is fairly close in performance. I've also got solid plate Valvo G2004 and Telefunken RGN2004, which are also good, but Valvo and Telefunken 2504 are superior in my setup.
However, I have Pac and GG, not Horizon. As @rspyder mentions, I'm not sure how things translate, DHT Lampis compared to other Lampi models. My findings are probably not all that relevant in Horizon.
However, I have Pac and GG, not Horizon. As @rspyder mentions, I'm not sure how things translate, DHT Lampis compared to other Lampi models. My findings are probably not all that relevant in Horizon.
Good synergy with SRS551 and TFN c3gs.
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Good to know that TFN RGN2504, which is way cheaper than Valvo G2504 (which is also exceptionally difficult to source), is almost as competitive. As Ian said, it is 95% of Valvo's SQ. PM if anyone is interested in an extra 1940s-vintage Telefunken RGN2504. The SQ improvement to Horizon with the new tubes is staggering, which IMHO is obviously more pronounced than the improvement with a Taiko Switch (for example for a similar price if you go for the ultimate and get the Special Edition TP adapters).
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hm having listened to and still owning the the TFN military grade 2004 and the Valvo G2504 (paired with c3gs and various top tier pentodes, pure quads and mixed) in the Horizon coupled with both TP special edition adaptors and grounding and/or plasmod adapters (I see their approaches to adaptors quite different), while these two rectifiers in particular are great tubes they did not usurp the improvement of the Taiko Switch alone, and not even close to the improvement that the Taiko Router coupled with the their power distributor provided. The tubes were a positive, notable improvement. Even above and beyond other rectifiers I have such as TAK 274B, KR Audio 5U4G, Emission Labs 274, Mullard Cv378, Mullard Gz34, Sophia Electric mesh plate 274b, Sophia Electric aqua 274b, Marconi 5u4GB, Marconi 5y3, among others.
That said, the Taiko switch, router, power distributor were a clear component upgrade. Just a different level compared to a top tier rectifier, at least here in my system, imho.
That said, the Taiko switch, router, power distributor were a clear component upgrade. Just a different level compared to a top tier rectifier, at least here in my system, imho.
Thanks for sharing. To clarify, I was comparing the totality of the new tubes (not just a single rectifier) with the Switch (not in tandem with Router or DCD, which I have not obtained yet) to my ears and in my system. The effect of the new tubes was startling (such unheard-of transparency and soundstage); I did not experience the same startling effect when the Switch was first inserted (but which I cannot do without once I heard the uptick).
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