Let's Get A Consensus Of The Best DAC's In The Market Today

[c1ferrari]

I would state that up against not just "good" analog, but quite high end analog somewhere in the $70K+ range this digital would have trouble beating (keep in mind I haven't heard it, but speculating from experience). Analog in general and especially high end analog requires so many pieces the laws of diminishing return kick in more than other components (TT, arm, cartridge, phono pre, isolation requirements, record clamp and other accessories).

Analog reel tape (AAA)...there is no substitute (from a tifoso)!

 

[LL21]

Having heard at home following dac's :
DCS Vivaldi( very close to get one) , Auralic Vega( owned for some time) , Metronome C8, Metronome C8+( impressed indeed), Lampi level 5, Lampi DSD dac( owned for one year) , Lampi Big 7 , Gryphon Kalliope, Audio Aero La Fontaine,
the best in my system and according to my preferences are : La Fontaine for pcm and big 7 for dsd playback.

Nice collection of DACs you've heard. I have heard the Vivaldi, Metronomes, and Audio Aero La Source before...all great. I did like them all and can appreciate why you like the La Fontaine if its 'signature' is similar to La Source. Will try to listen to the big Lampi.

 

[KeithR]

Anyone know what Lampizator's setup will be @ Newport...including amplification and loudspeakers

Demo'd with Ginkgo speakers and a wells audio amp last year as I recall.

I think its exceptionally hard to isolate DACs at shows.

 

[beaur]

This will give me a chance to see if what I have heard is true. Two separate people (although they may have had the same source) claim that they were told that MSB doesn't like "clocks" in the system. Neither person was technical enough to explain exactly what that meant i.e. any computer will have a clock. Seemed to be saying that MSB does not recommend any word clocks anywhere in the system. If thrue that's most likely why no femto clock in a $100K DAC.

I can't believe they don't include the Femto 33 clock for that price...so it's really a 100k DAC with their best clock.

 

[amirm]

This will give me a chance to see if what I have heard is true. Two separate people (although they may have had the same source) claim that they were told that MSB doesn't like "clocks" in the system. Neither person was technical enough to explain exactly what that meant i.e. any computer will have a clock. Seemed to be saying that MSB does not recommend any word clocks anywhere in the system. If thrue that's most likely why no femto clock in a $100K DAC.

There is a school of thought that says *external* word clocks are not a good idea. That is an independent thing from having an internal femtoclock modules MSB uses.

It would not make any sense whatsoever for their highest end DAC to have anything less than their best clock source internally. Yet that seems to be the case. The standard clock is their Galaxy. All are plug-in modules:

Galaxy FEMTO 77 - This is original Femtosecond clock with less than 77 fs of jitter. It has been compared and reviewed all over the world with amazingly consistent results. One is installed in every A/D converter we have sold and most of the DACs. A proven winner. $10,000

FEMTO 33 - This is the newest and record breaking clock with less than 33 fs of jitter. So far we have never heard it better than this. This clock has improvements in every area including clock precision, thermal management and a new effort in vibration control. Imagine, half the jitter of the well known Galaxy Femto 77 clock. $20,000

The objective data it shows with the Femto having half as much jitter is useless. These are 0.077 and 0.033 picoseconds of jitter. At 192 Khz, 1000 femtoseconds of jitter means distortion products at -136 dbFS. When playing redbook CD at 44.1 Khz, the distortions related to the clock would be at -149 dBFs. Again, I am using the number of 1 picoseconds, not 0.03 or .08 that the clocks are rated at. For reference, 33 femtoseconds would mean jitter components at 44.1 Khz down to -180 dbFS There are many other sources of noise and distortion which would dwarf these values.

Looking at the measurements of their Analog DAC, we get this jitter performance:

And DAC IV:

These are extremely good measurements and I don't see how reducing the clock jitter would produce anything better.

As always, what matters with jitter is its spectrum and not numerical value. If MSB wants to advertise anything, it should be the measured spectrum, not such small numerical values that have little meaning beyond marketing.

 

[bmoura]

Anyone know what Lampizator's setup will be @ Newport...including amplification and loudspeakers

Here's what they had to say about their demo at The Show Newport at Audio Shark:

"We are going to be showing our new Lite 7 DAC which is our entry level to our DHT DACs and features our same DSD and PCM engines as the universally praised Big 7. It is solid state rectified rather than tubed, has a couple less chokes and a more affordable but still outstanding parts selection. With the exception of it's price tag (comparatively speaking), there is NOTHING lite about it.

We will also have some lovely Salk speakers, a Wells Audio Inamorata Signature and the new reference line of Danacables in our room.

Look forward to seeing you guys there!

Fred A.


P.S. The show Lite 7 will be available for purchase. It is a one off of the Lite 7 which will feature our world class volume control module eliminating the need for a preamplifier. This is a feature reserved for the Big 7 and Golden Gate and will not be available on other Lite 7s. This is your chance to snag a brand new unit with no wait! This DAC just touched down in the US yesterday and it will be priced at $5950 picked up in person or shipped."

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Interesting thread to read. The comments versus analogue really resonated with me after Munich. As a summary, I found that analogue playback really shone versus digital and that included some top of the line digital.

The Absolare room MSB dac (not sure which one exactly) fed off request audio the beast was destroyed by Kodo The Beat with Lyra Atlas - was really not even remotely close. The GIP room Scarlatti was hammered by their Schick TT, the Vivid audio airforce one beat the CH dac and so on.

The TotalDac did make me think though.

 

[bonzo75]

I don't think you can separate the components at a show unless they play back to back like they did with Schick and scarlatti

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I don't think you can separate the components at a show unless they play back to back like they did with Schick and scarlatti

They did play back to back in the rooms I just mentioned

 

[bonzo75]

Total dac?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Ah true. Having said that the total dac sounded pretty good on the material I heard. All the others were digital and analogue to A-B was easy.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

The usual flight toward ever higher prices won't stop anytime soon... in the meantime a sampling of some of the best DAC (of course IMHO) I have heard to date. No hierarchy.

Berkeley Audio Design Associates DAC II with the USB thng...
Auralic Vega
Burmeter 069 (CDPlayer with a DAC section)
Merging technoologies (I forgot which model but it had more than 2 Channels)
Chord QBD something ... It seems to be entirely unknown in the USA .. A formidable DAC .. with a , let's say uncoventionalstyling.
Audio Aero La Fontaine
CH Precision C1 (it is a preamp too)

Prices are as you can see, cover a wide spectrum
, from the >$70,000 Burmester to the circa $3500 Auralic Vega. The Chord is a very special DAC with a bizarre styling (it is a Chord after all). It has a seductive sound smooth and sweet. To my ears and my leanings the Burmester and the CH Precision could be the best of this bunch but not by a mile and by any measure that would justify these costing several times the Vega. I really like the CH Precision and haven't had the pleasure to compare it head to head wi the Berkeley in my system. It is a very, very special unit . I could live any of those but for my money find great satisfaction with the BADA and the Vega.
A DAC of great distinction at a super price is the NAD M51 (? forgot the exact model number) at $2500 it is not embarassed by any DAC on this list ...

From what I heard from these DACs, I would be hard pressed to spend above 10K for a DAC today. Perhaps the Berkeley would change my mind...

Parting shot
I have heard some brutally priced DACs among those a DCS (a threee-piece affair)and, of course the Burmester..

 

[c1ferrari]

Demo'd with Ginkgo speakers and a wells audio amp last year as I recall.

I think its exceptionally hard to isolate DACs at shows.

Yes, it - as most/all(?) audio matters - is contextual.

 

[c1ferrari]

Here's what they had to say about their demo at The Show Newport at Audio Shark:

Thanks, Brian.

 

[c1ferrari]

They did play back to back in the rooms I just mentioned

Oh, that IS interesting...if I may -- are you listening to the rig as listed in your profile?

 

[es347]

I have the Lumin A1 which granted is not just a DAC but rather a network player. I have limited experience comparing DACs but I must say that the DAC in the A1 compared to the DAC in my MCD500, the A1 wins handily. The A1 plays DSD files wonderfully of course but its what it does with redbook that impresses. I can't see any sort of an upgrade path in my future regarding my digital front end..

 

[c1ferrari]

From what I heard from these DACs, I would be hard pressed to spend above 10K for a DAC today.

I'm sympathetic. Perhaps, the trend to lavish pricing structure, which appears to be well-documented, will result in a flourishing secondary market
I must express concern, however, with product and customer support by companies/manufacturers whom might not consider secondary market acquistions of their product(s) as elements of a successful and long-term business strategy.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Oh, that IS interesting...if I may -- are you listening to the rig as listed in your profile?

Hi Sam,

Yes. Focal Maestro powered by Krell 750mcxs / Audio Research ref3. Not surprising my vinyl sounds better mind since my kuzma ref / triplanar is much more expensive than my oppo105d

 

[c1ferrari]

Hi Sam,

Yes. Focal Maestro powered by Krell 750mcxs / Audio Research ref3. Not surprising my vinyl sounds better mind since my kuzma ref / triplanar is much more expensive than my oppo105d

Thanks. Focal presented well last year @ THE Show

 

[GGA]

In Random Order:

1. Merging Horus/Hapi/NADAC

2. Forssell

3. dCS

4. Playback Designs

5. MSB

6. Lampizator

7. Crane Song

8. Light Harmonic

9. TotalDAC

10. CH Precision C1

Hi Bruce,

What do you think of the Lavry Gold DA924 compared to your top 10? I use one in my system alongwith an AD-122-96 Mk III (for analog sources) and Dirac Live. You are probably the only one here who has heard these!