Let's Talk Computer Audio

[asiufy]

I'd say so. Even Windows can't foul it up
As a second place, a linear power supply would also be in order, even though lots of folks just use a switched unit.



alexandre

 

[Old Listener]

Can we conclude that adding a PCI or similar adapter card with USB ports to a desktop will solve the problem?

If the "problem" is to place DAC and USB hard drive on different USB hubs, a few minutes using device manager and plugging the DAC and a thumb drive into various ports might do the trick.

It pretty easy if you have a recent desktop PC.

Bill

 

[Julf]

Thanks. So this is the "secret" and basic ingredient of good computer audio sound?

It's not the only right way to get there, but it seems to be a popular one.

 

[Julf]

As a second place, a linear power supply would also be in order, even though lots of folks just use a switched unit.

For the computer or the DAC?

I find that most often the switching vs. linear power supply issue is one of audiophile superstition. There are good and bad supplies, both linear and switching, and with most systems they don't actually matter.

 

[asiufy]

For the computer or the DAC?

I find that most often the switching vs. linear power supply issue is one of audiophile superstition. There are good and bad supplies, both linear and switching, and with most systems they don't actually matter.

Julf,

Computer, in this case, the transport. Of course, a linear supply on the DAC would be better as well.
I can verify the effects of a linear supply vs a switched one, on a transport, with the MSB Transport and its Power Base supply, since it has both outputs, linear and switched. There's a significant degradation of the SQ if I use the switched PS.

Unfortunately, linear supplies don't come cheap, specially for computers.

alexandre

 

[microstrip]

For the computer or the DAC?

I find that most often the switching vs. linear power supply issue is one of audiophile superstition. There are good and bad supplies, both linear and switching, and with most systems they don't actually matter.

Juff,

Most people will tell that our debate on USB ports is also an audiophile superstition. How can you separate the good and bad USB ports? The DAC is galvanically isolated from the computer and the data is re-clocked, why bother?

One of the problems I find as a non expert in computer audio is that most friendly people consider that other people opinions are superstition, only the aspects that they care are enough taking care. The same situation also happens in high-end, but in this field I feel better dealing with it, as I have some experience on it.

 

[Julf]

Most people will tell that our debate on USB ports is also an audiophile superstition.

And I would tend to agree with them.

 

[Julf]

Unfortunately, linear supplies don't come cheap, specially for computers.

Not to mention that they are rather inefficient and produce a lot of waste heat. Not so much of a concern for the tube crowd, of course

 

[prerich]

Nope. To many variables and the Computer Audio Police to deal with.

Not too sure about that...There's a type of PC geek out there that loves audio! This type will build their system him/herself and take great joy in the journey - they love the variables, the differences and the headaches involved. Mix an audio lover with a PC geek that has an A+ cert and you have a dangerous thing! I believe I take about two hours discovering whatelse can my PC do, and 3 hours listening to music, and then another 2 hours for a movie! I guess computer audio just combined my two favorite hobbies into one!!!! My wife likes it because now instead of going out and buying the latest in greatest - I see if I can build something that performs up to my standards - and I make sure that I can upgrade it in the future if I want to.

 

[mauidan]

I find that most often the switching vs. linear power supply issue is one of audiophile superstition. There are good and bad supplies, both linear and switching, and with most systems they don't actually matter.

Have fun:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1357393544&openflup&8&4#8

 

[Julf]

Have fun:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1357393544&openflup&8&4#8

And would you expect a company selling high-end power supplies to state that the power supply isn't very important?

 

[rbbert]

Have fun:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?icomp&1357393544&openflup&8&4#8

The poster may mean something different than what he posted, but the effects he describes would all change the digital data in the bitstream and be easily detectable (and not "bit-perfect")

 

[Vincent Kars]

The poster may mean something different than what he posted, but the effects he describes would all change the digital data in the bitstream and be easily detectable (and not "bit-perfect")

This is what he writes about ripping

First and foremost is the power supply. The power supply is what creates the 0 and 3.3V peaks of the square wave that determines your sound and digital signal. The amplitude of the square wave determines the frequency and harmonic content of your music. Minute differences in amplitude translate to large differences in harmonic content, often introducing harmonics that don’t exist in real life or in the recording. Any noise on the power supply directly translates to amplitude distortion on your resulting rip and poorer sound quality.

 

[Old Listener]

This is what he writes about ripping

After you read a technical explanation like this, do you belive the author's reports of hearing differences?

Would you buy a product from someone who wrote an explanation like this?

Bill

 

[Vincent Kars]

Would you buy a product from someone who wrote an explanation like this?

No, plain nonsense

 

[Julf]

Archimago has released his latest measurements, this time on JPLAY.

"Bottom line: With a reasonably standard set-up as described, using a current-generation (2013) asynchronous USB DAC, there appears to be no benefit with the use of JPLAY over any of the standard bit-perfect Windows players tested previously in terms of measured sonic output. Nor could I say that subjectively I heard a difference through the headphones. If anything, one is subjected to potential bugs like the 24/48 issue (I didn't run into any system instability thankfully), and the recommended Kernel Streaming mode utilizes significant CPU resources when buffer size is reduced (which the software recommends doing). I imagine that CPU utilization would be even higher if I could have activated the DirectLink (1-sample buffer) setting."

 

[dallasjustice]

I haven't heard Faure Requiem. I just ordered it on Amazon. That may be the most useful part of his testing for me.

I think the measurements are nice. But somehow I don't think it will satisfy many folks. I wish there were a way to measure the jitter before analog conversion. That way there wouldn't be all of the other folks that will say: "okay with the TEAC DAC, but not with MY DAC." You wouldn't have to test every DAC on earth to know for sure there's no difference.

Archimago has released his latest measurements, this time on JPLAY.

"Bottom line: With a reasonably standard set-up as described, using a current-generation (2013) asynchronous USB DAC, there appears to be no benefit with the use of JPLAY over any of the standard bit-perfect Windows players tested previously in terms of measured sonic output. Nor could I say that subjectively I heard a difference through the headphones. If anything, one is subjected to potential bugs like the 24/48 issue (I didn't run into any system instability thankfully), and the recommended Kernel Streaming mode utilizes significant CPU resources when buffer size is reduced (which the software recommends doing). I imagine that CPU utilization would be even higher if I could have activated the DirectLink (1-sample buffer) setting."

 

[jkeny]

Archimago has released his latest measurements, this time on JPLAY.

"Bottom line: With a reasonably standard set-up as described, using a current-generation (2013) asynchronous USB DAC, there appears to be no benefit with the use of JPLAY over any of the standard bit-perfect Windows players tested previously in terms of measured sonic output. Nor could I say that subjectively I heard a difference through the headphones. If anything, one is subjected to potential bugs like the 24/48 issue (I didn't run into any system instability thankfully), and the recommended Kernel Streaming mode utilizes significant CPU resources when buffer size is reduced (which the software recommends doing). I imagine that CPU utilization would be even higher if I could have activated the DirectLink (1-sample buffer) setting."

I see you proceed to seed this inaccurate information in other threads. I already offered "points of clarification" on the other thread & will repeat the here for a more balanced viewpoint:

I wonder why he can't hear any difference either? Could it be he's using headphone listening?

I know that Amir realises that J-Test is inappropriate for USB testing so surprised that he hasn't commented on this as a waste of testing time. This has already been pointed out to Archimago some time ago but he continues to use it. Why?

BTW, Jplay 'native' is defined as 16bits for 44 and 48 and 24 for anything above....So he obviously is incorrectly reporting flaws that he attributes to software which are in fact flaws in his understanding/reading

As for the other tests -- they are obviously flawed as they don't reveal the differences picked up by listening!!

His "potential bugs like the 24/48 issue" is his operational misuse of the software.
His use of J-test is of no use for USB testing - it exercises a particular aspect of the SPDIF protocol which is of little value as a test here

 

[Julf]

His use of J-test is of no use for USB testing - it exercises a particular aspect of the SPDIF protocol which is of little value as a test here

And again I am stating the obvious - we would all (or almost all) love to see some test results that actually show some differences.

 

[jkeny]

And again I am stating the obvious - we would all (or almost all) love to see some test results that actually show some differences.

You have no other argument than this? You continue to BELIEVE in flawed/inappropriate measurements (which you have not addressed) simply because there is nothing better (at the moment)?
When the answer is under your nose or in this case at either side of your head!