Listening chair...fixed or moveable ?
- Thread starter rockitman
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I'm set up on the long side of the room. So there is less room depth set up that way. Sitting only 10' back means I have 3-4 ' behind me until the back wall. Having the flexibility to move the seat a bit with ease is of value. Most of my friends who have tried the moveable and height adjustable seat agree. My fixed seat was optimized for me...6'6"... Shorter people did not get the best sound.
Steve williams
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I agree with you there if you are talking about other people using the chair. I just find that mine are so dialed in at the listening position that as I said I just listen to music.
There are a couple of reasons to consider moving the listening chair slightly. One is definitely as Jack says, when relaxing my head is in a much different position than when sitting fully upright and listening carefully. Another is that (especially) many "stereo" recordings from the '50's and '60's sound better when the listening position is farther back than the one which works best on those recordings with a more natural stereo image. JMO of course.
Generally, I use a recliner. If the recliner is extended it moves my head back, when retracted I am a bit higher, and a little closer. Also when retracted I can lean forward into the music to get closer yet. Currently, the chair is a bit closer than usual for some near field listening. Sometimes I push it aside and use my Herman Miller chair and then raise or lower the height. However, most of the time I am just reclined and enjoying the music, rather than screwing with the chair's location.
Wow a real discussion about something I got laughed at about last year. I have witnessed dogma about room treatments, criticisms about my Apertures, belittled by some "across the pond" about room measurements and here we are basically being flip about the chair and its position.
Sorry guys if I am a little critical BUT if you are spending the bucks we all are there is ONE proper location of one's seat within ones room including its height that don't have proverbial "ear muffs". Now if one chooses to ignore the right location or move for comfort sake so be it BUT I will uncategorically state that one's listening position is if not the most important aspect of a room at least one of the most important aspects of a room setup. AND it doesn't include a recliner or a seat that extends above ones ears and must be not only correct in location of the room relative to speakers but be at the right height as well. Of course this varies based on room, speaker etc; but while I acknowledge this about music and enjoyment if we are going to be so critical about "gear" don't even go there if you choose to be flip about where and how you sit to listen because the rest doesn't really matter if you can't get that right.
Just my opinion
Sorry guys if I am a little critical BUT if you are spending the bucks we all are there is ONE proper location of one's seat within ones room including its height that don't have proverbial "ear muffs". Now if one chooses to ignore the right location or move for comfort sake so be it BUT I will uncategorically state that one's listening position is if not the most important aspect of a room at least one of the most important aspects of a room setup. AND it doesn't include a recliner or a seat that extends above ones ears and must be not only correct in location of the room relative to speakers but be at the right height as well. Of course this varies based on room, speaker etc; but while I acknowledge this about music and enjoyment if we are going to be so critical about "gear" don't even go there if you choose to be flip about where and how you sit to listen because the rest doesn't really matter if you can't get that right.
Just my opinion
This is one of the very first time I have seen someone with a position (pun intented ) similar to mine ... IMO there is one optimal position in a room this is where everything gels ... Too often I have seen people discussing about speaker positioning and see the listening position at entirely secondary ... sometime back at a wall...
Being human .. I move my head and body around a lot but mostly within that given area when I am listening seriously. For entertainment .. i just sit anywhere ...Use no head rest either just the Aeron or now, comfy enough for long hours at work..
I find that music sounds the VERY best to me when I'm reclining slightly, pretty tired so as not to be neurotic about extraneous things, and just drift away to listen to whatever is on the turntable or DAC. This is not to discount things such as proper positioning, time alignment and all, but really, I love music when it's at the end of a hard day. I just listened to a Keb Mo download, and had a great relaxing time just enjoying the music. Was I in the perfect position for listening? About as much as I am in a live concert that I thoroughly enjoy. The benefit here- I'm totally relaxed, not having to hear extraneous coughs, talking, and thunderclaps (NC has big storms in live venues). Was it as dynamic as the live venue? Nope, but I still enjoyed it immensely. Mission accomplished! Early Merry Christmas!!
"Wow...you really are an azz clown. Please leave the thread as you have nothing to contribute of value regarding the subject."
Wow! "Panties in a bunch" comes to mind. Thankfully, I am able to enjoy the music wherever I sit (or stand) even way off axis. Perhaps it's because with Sound Lab electrostatics the full range of the sound is everywhere; only the imaging suffers by moving away from the "sweet seat." Thus, I enjoy the music wherever I happen to be! Probably a reason why I will never be a Wilson owner.
Wow! "Panties in a bunch" comes to mind. Thankfully, I am able to enjoy the music wherever I sit (or stand) even way off axis. Perhaps it's because with Sound Lab electrostatics the full range of the sound is everywhere; only the imaging suffers by moving away from the "sweet seat." Thus, I enjoy the music wherever I happen to be! Probably a reason why I will never be a Wilson owner.
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This has been my experience also. In fact, when Jim Smith spent a day and a half voicing my system to my room, the very first thing he spent time on locating correctly was the listening position, both distance from the back wall and side walls, and finally height. The goal was to locate the position where the bass response was the smoothest. After that, we positioned the speakers. The last thing we did was slightly adjusting the room treatments. In the end, the transformation to the sound was pretty significant, and most importantly, the enjoyment of and involvement with the music was at a much higher level.
I agree.
Those who scoff at "the chair" might as well listen to headphones, IMHO. That is why I am finding some of the comments on this thread a little ironic in the context of the critical content of what are on most of these forums.
I was one who 'scoffed" at the concept, but only because I think to worry about an absolutely correct seating position that really does put your body in a vise-like position seems unnatural and uncomfortable, IMO. I could have my girlfriend duct-tape me to my chair for a lot less money.
I use a chair that has my ears at the proper height and it's positioned dead center. It doesn't have a headrest, but if it did it wouldn't bother me and I certainly wouldn't change it for something else. I sometimes lean forward, sometimes slightly left or right and at other times a bit slouched. Am I really missing something by these bad habits?
And lastly, I'm not about to sell my speakers and get headphones because those who "scoff" at my position think they know better.
Happy New Year!
certainly some speaker designs have different attributes and trade-offs than other designs. and different rooms and electronics have their effects too. we all make our choices.
and our individual musical priorities are sometimes quite different.
but just because one design has a wider more diffuse (or at least different) sweet spot for the ideal soundstage, and another has a more solid but smaller (or at least different) sweet spot for the soundstage.......and so the ideal listening position is larger for one than another.......does not invalidate either one. but if the gauntlet gets thrown down trying to rationalize negative comments about a sweet spot then we descend into defending our tastes......
and we could and do argue all day about which approach is most right.
clearly mixing engineers almost always mix recordings to be optimized at one spot. and optimizing a recording for maximum musical message is the goal. if one decides optimizing the musical message of the recording is not a priority then don't be surprised by a push back.
and our individual musical priorities are sometimes quite different.
but just because one design has a wider more diffuse (or at least different) sweet spot for the ideal soundstage, and another has a more solid but smaller (or at least different) sweet spot for the soundstage.......and so the ideal listening position is larger for one than another.......does not invalidate either one. but if the gauntlet gets thrown down trying to rationalize negative comments about a sweet spot then we descend into defending our tastes......
and we could and do argue all day about which approach is most right.
clearly mixing engineers almost always mix recordings to be optimized at one spot. and optimizing a recording for maximum musical message is the goal. if one decides optimizing the musical message of the recording is not a priority then don't be surprised by a push back.
You should consider adapting an oral surgical headrest to your chair. It fully supports your head and won't block your ears or any sound coming from behind you.
you are describing the normal listening environment. it's not like your head must be within an inch of an exact spot for the music to be cohesive. every system will have it's variance of degrees of exactitude as far as how much leeway you have until you get tonal or soundstage changes.
OTOH when one wants to be exactly in the right spot then there ought to be a method at your listening spot to be there for those 'all-in' moments.
personally I have a tape line in the wood floor at the front of my room with a line down the middle I can sight along to the rear wall duplex outlet for the exact center. then I can sight between my speaker towers to two other duplex outlets on either side for my exact depth. my room is 100% symmetrical so that works for me. and when I want to be exactly right on for critical listening then I know I can be there. and then when I move my big tall chair to the side and move my other chair into the sweet spot for when I have visitors I can dial it in quickly to the exact right spot.
Mike,
No one is arguing with that. I have one of those speakers that actually have a very large "sweet spot" although there is still one location that is best. I am also a proponent of enjoying the music which has a different meaning to just about everyone on these threads, including "the music". If someone enjoys spending 500K for a system and wants to listen in a recliner 12" off the ground with a high back because that is what floats their boat more power to him/her; their life and decisions.
What I am just pointing out is that regardless of what some would like to scoff at, there is A "right" location of the chair, as well as seat height and height of the seat back relative to one's speakers and room, no matter how wide the dispersion, etc. of the speaker. When I see arguments on these forums over timbre, dynamics, room treatment, measurements, equalization, speakers, amps, etc, etc to laugh at what is probably the single constant and one of the most important variables in everyone's system is kind of ironic in the context of these debates. This is not the first time I have seen people shake off the importance of "the chair". In fact, when I do read a review about a piece of equipment, I often question what kind of chair the reviewer was using.
On the other hand, as I originally stated, even having and/or knowing about the "sweet spot" doesn't necessarily equate to "comfort and enjoyment" and to each his own; however, those same people should be just a little less critical of the opinion of what IS a constant variable in every single system ever put together.
Howie
"I was one who 'scoffed" at the concept"
Why scoff at the concept? That is my point. Do what you want. Also, why parse it to claiming that one is saying to listen with your head in a vice; no one said that. As I stated to Mike, its your bucks, your life and your enjoyment so listen however and wherever you like. I have no right or qualms about that.
My only point was, as I tried to elucidate in my post to Mike, is to recognize that there IS a right spot, right height and right type of chair to get the best out of your system. To refute that is absurd. Why do you think so many speaker designers put so much effort and $$ into designing time alignment, etc, Again that doesn't mean your body and head need be in a mold with your ass taped to the chair and your head in a vice, it is just a spec to recognize for optimum "performance" which is not always equal to "enjoyment"
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