looking for guidance between Ayre MX-R 20 mono's vs D'Agostino Progression Stereo amp

[mribob]

Currently using a Hegel H-30, which is damaged. Will be using VTL 7.5 iii preamp, into Venture Speakers. Both amps are about 300 watts. Listened in store; like both. Thought the D'Agostino moved the sound stage to listener further back, and was a bit more analytical, less warmth, but very precise. The Ayre's sounded a bit smoother and warmer, a bit less detailed, and moved the listener up closer to the stage. Both gripped the speakers in the audition room, Wilson Shasha's very well. The Dag's certainly have the 'eye' candy wow factor in spades, not sure if it was influencing my preference in sound.
Not sure if I might suffer from 'fatigue' with the D'Agostino due to its cool presentation, or if its just a different version of 'truth'.
My speakers require two runs of speaker cables...the Ayre only have a single binding post to handle spades, the Dag can handle both spades, and banana plugs, which is my current set up. I could re do the ends to both spades, not sure what degradation of sound having two runs of spade speaker cables will make at the binding posts.

I hoping that owners of both pieces might chime in and offer me their experience over time, or better, folks who may have heard both. I know its my ears, in my system, but I've not yet been able to conduct an in home audition of both amps...
Both amps have great reputations, and solid build...kinda deciding between BMW vs Mercedes, both excellent, and in the end, I need to prefer one over the other. I don't have the funds to move up further in lines, and hope to make a decision between these two.
Thanks for your opinions.
Bob

 

[Kippyy]

I had the MXR's (before the 20 upgrade). They were in a cabinet with open doors, and got very hot to the point where they were shutting down with use.Just a consideration.

 

[Pizzicato]

I have just pulled the trigger on ordering the Progression Stereo. I have no direct listening experience of the Ayre, so take below with that grain of salt.

Like you it is not a priority for me that audio equipment double as shiny jewelry in my house, I ordered the progression in black to make it blend in a little better... For my life situation (two little kiddos at home using the equipment daily for TV watching), not hassling with tubes or worrying about accidental quick power cycling made SS amps a priority. The risks and occasional hassle involved in tube gear would have been worth it if I could find comparable musical performance at a significantly lower price, so I auditioned the ARC REF75SE head2head with the Progression (and the Linn Klimax twin to get another SS flavor to compare the Progression to). The comparison was made by running a dCS Bartok's output directly into each amp, using the same speaker cables and interconnects, speakers were Wilson Yvettes in a treated room

I was really hoping I could save significant funds by going the REF 75SE or Linn route, but to my ears the progression was just an all around amazing performer on a different level. It had the most compelling imaging of the three, the Linn was diffuse and much further retreated in the room... Predictably the bass response, ie rendering of bass transients and low frequency reach, was far and above the other amps. What impressed me however, was the level of musical content in difficult to render bass passages and the overall sense of effortless musicality the progression conveyed. What also surprised me was that the mids and highs rendered by the Progression was more intricate, musical and "warm" without being colored than the REF57SE when fed directly by the dCS. I auditioned with tracks across many genres, but I distinctly remember passages from Nemanja Radulovic's "Journey East" as well as Roby Lakatos "Live from Budapest" where the high pitched violin solos seemed borderline shrill and one dimensional on the ARC and Linn but both were addressed when listening to the Progression. The upshot for me was that the overall presentation of music was a lot more detailed but also well rounded compared to the other units I listened to, a very musical amp I would just continue to love listening to. Of course this was not a fair fight, given the progression is 2xmore expensive than the other units, lets just say I started the audition highly prejudiced against the Progression in order to save funds and left enthusiastically ordering that unit.

Another point of reference: I currently have PS Audio BHK300 monoblocks at home that I am trading in for this unit, and while they are great all round performers, their overall noise floor is far more noticable to me compared to the Progression and the overall sense of depth of bass reach and richness of musical presentation compared to the Progression is a bit less expressive.The Progression seem to rival if not surpass those huge mono blocks in a single unit...

 

[Sharp 1080]

I had on long term loan ARC Ref 250's monoblocks, then D"Agostino Momentum, Theta Prometheus monoblocks (purchased), and finally D'Agostino Progression monoblocks. I am done searching for the right amplifier.

 

[KeithR]

The comparison was made by running a dCS Bartok's output directly into each amp, using the same speaker cables and interconnects, speakers were Wilson Yvettes in a treated room

Unfortunately auditioning amps without a proper preamp adds variables to the equation and I'm surprised your dealer did it this way.

Dagostino has a relatively high input impedance making life more easy on the source. ARC is much lower.

 

[Pizzicato]

Unfortunately auditioning amps without a proper preamp adds variables to the equation and I'm surprised your dealer did it this way.

Dagostino has a relatively high input impedance making life more easy on the source. ARC is much lower.

Good point and I should have been more explicit, running this way initially was my request as I currently dont have the funds to upgrade both the pre and amp in my system, so I wanted to get a good idea what the sound would be to run direct for a while until funds allow for the purchase of a good pre.

FWIW halfway through we did add the ARC REF6, which rounded out the imaging and sound quality overall. The differences I described above between the amps were still present as far as I remember

 

[Pizzicato]

I had on long term loan ARC Ref 250's monoblocks, then D"Agostino Momentum, Theta Prometheus monoblocks (purchased), and finally D'Agostino Progression monoblocks. I am done searching for the right amplifier.

Interesting that you went for the Progression and not the Momentums - How would you assess the difference between the Momentum and Progression series in your auditioning & listening experience? What was it about the Progression amps that sold you compared to the momentum series (other than price)?

My dealer didnt have a Momentum stereo available to audition and it would have been well above my budget anyway, but I am still curious of course

 

[mribob]

I decided rather impulsively to pull the trigger on a Dag Momentum Stereo S450, and go down in model on my tubed pre, now getting
VTL 6.5ii. Dealer was suggesting that the VTL 7.5 iii pre, and Progression amp might be better...they did not have the Momentum in stock to audition, so I pulled trigger 'blind' without direct hearing....should have installed mid February...I hope I don't regret my impulsiveness, but will post after gear installed and broken in...appreciate everyone's comments...and I do realize that gear needs to be heard in my own room, with my gear, and cables...but sometimes a leap of faith is required to allow progress to advance.

 

[Pizzicato]

One notable aspect of the Progression Stereo amp is that D'Agostino offers owners an upgrade path. I just confirmed with my dealer that I can send my stereo into D'Agostino and they will upgrade it to a monoblock if I purchase a second Progression monoblock new, effectively providing a cost effective upgrade path to the system that lucky @Sharp 1080 already has at home..

Lastly, in case this is of interest, here are a couple of reviews that might be helpful:

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/da...tems-progression-preamp-and-stereo-amplifier/
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dan-dagostino-progression-mono-monoblock-power-amplifier

 

[knghifi]

Does anyone have insight to post D'Agostino? Similar to Ayre post Charles Hansen where company continue operations.

 

[Elberoth]

What happened at D'Agostino?

 

[knghifi]

I'm asking future WHEN it happens. I'm close pulling trigger on Progression Stereo amp and service is important to me.

 

[gfroman]

Ayre customer service is top notch.
They also corrected the heat problem with the Twenty Revision.

 

[Number9]

D’agastino’s customer service is also exceptional.

 

[Pizzicato]

I asked about this as well.

According to my dealer (so take that with the appropriate grain of salt) they haven’t had a quality issue return for Dag gear yet even though they have been selling them for a few years. When they do have to deal with dag for trade ins or upgrades they are getting exceptionally fast help and generous assistance.

your unit it will be hand built to order for you, so it will take a little bit. Note that occasionally dag has b stock units available that may reuse some parts such as the chassis or heat sinks of a return unit. I went that route and was able to realize some fantastic savings. If you are interested in that your dealer should be able to check with Dag on this option

Good luck and keep us posted what you decide to do!

 

[Sharp 1080]

Interesting that you went for the Progression and not the Momentums - How would you assess the difference between the Momentum and Progression series in your auditioning & listening experience? What was it about the Progression amps that sold you compared to the momentum series (other than price)?

My dealer didnt have a Momentum stereo available to audition and it would have been well above my budget anyway, but I am still curious of course

Pizzicato, I had at that time the funds to buy the Momentum monoblocks, but 60K was over my amount for amps as I still had to buy HRS stands which were not cheap either. It wasn't just the price as I felt in my room and setup the Progression amp has a similar sonic signature except for the more liquid mids in the Momentum. The Progression runs much cooler than the Momentum obviously. What was amazing is how well the Momentum did against the tubed ARC Ref 250SE in the midrange and highs. The Ref 250 SE has plenty of low end for a tube amp.

 

[Sharp 1080]

I asked about this as well.

According to my dealer (so take that with the appropriate grain of salt) they haven’t had a quality issue return for Dag gear yet even though they have been selling them for a few years. When they do have to deal with dag for trade ins or upgrades they are getting exceptionally fast help and generous assistance.

your unit it will be hand built to order for you, so it will take a little bit. Note that occasionally dag has b stock units available that may reuse some parts such as the chassis or heat sinks of a return unit. I went that route and was able to realize some fantastic savings. If you are interested in that your dealer should be able to check with Dag on this option

Good luck and keep us posted what you decide to do!

I'm happy very pleased with D'Agostino's customer service. The equipment is indeed hand built. I had a small noise issue with ONE monoblock that was intermittent and would not go away no matter what was done. They flew a tech out from Arizona to California to my house, as it was deemed easier and faster than shipping the amp back. The amp worked for awhile and the noise returned! The factory had me box it up, ship it back, and shipped the dealer another unit. This one has worked without any issues. Well taken care of wouldn't you agree?

I remember communicating with Charles Hansen when I owned Ayre equipment. He was always easy to speak to about an issue or upgrading a unit. I did get into it with him once on another forum regarding two channel versus multi channel. But that's another post!

 

[mribob]

Wish to provide an update to my decision....I decided to jump up in the D'Agastino line up, and purchased a Momentum Stereo amp, instead of the Progression.I then was forced to modify the VTL pre to the 6.5 ii, instead of their two box top line unit, 7.5iii. I am pleased with this combination. My Venture speakers have never sounded so wonderful. I am amazed with the grip and control that this amp exerts...the bass is unbelieveably powerful, smooth and controlled. I have not engaged my JL sub woofer yet, as I am enjoying these two new pieces of gear complete their break in process. My impression is that the Momentum is a much better amp than the Progression, if one can afford the step up. Also, my system is now stone quiet, and my pesky ground loop hum that defied all attempts to eliminate is now silenced. I feel the DC blocking circuits of the new gear is superior to my previous gear, and allows a very quiet background with my electronics.
Also, very pleased with the care and service, and guidance from Audio Elements in Pasadena, who has been guiding me on this journey.

 

[jymc2]

I had the MXR's (before the 20 upgrade). They were in a cabinet with open doors, and got very hot to the point where they were shutting down with use.Just a consideration.

This thermal problem you speak of is well recognized at Ayre and can be easily remedied. At one time, Ayre was fixing the original MXRs (that had the thermal problem) at no charge to the customer. This program went on for years, I believe, before they created a fee for the fix. The MXR Twenty NEVER had this over-heating problem.