Mark Levinson on today’s audio industry

[Kingrex]

What do you mean no one seems to care? I care a lot about how electricity gets to my components. That’s a different topic though from this thread.

Yes you do. I remember offering to show you how to do it correctly for no charge but you wanted to do what DDK told you to do. Thats fine. I don't like the stranded wire and aluminum panel you used. But then again, I have a suspicion horn systems can be bright and stranded wire can be heavy sounding. So maybe DDK is intentionally trying to shape the sound with the wire in the wall. The aluminum panel is more a glare, but it can be confused with full. When you hear the clarity, clean and dynamics of all copper, you won't go back.

 

[PeterA]

Yes you do. I remember offering to show you how to do it correctly for no charge but you wanted to do what DDK told you to do. Thats fine. I don't like the stranded wire and aluminum panel you used. But then again, I have a suspicion horn systems can be bright and stranded wire can be heavy sounding. So maybe DDK is intentionally trying to shape the sound with the wire in the wall. The aluminum panel is more a glare, but it can be confused with full. When you hear the clarity, clean and dynamics of all copper, you won't go back.

I compared stranded to solid years before I had horn speakers. At that time I prefered JPS labs in wall wires but then I compare them to what David recommended and I preferred David’s. My horns are not bright.

I have two panels. The one I use for Audio circuits have copper connections with some kind of coating. My electrician and I scraped off the coating. You saw the panel I use for the rest of the house before I added the new panel dedicated to Audio.

My only point was that some people care about power delivery dissagreeing with your claim that nobody does.

 

[gleeds]

Not by Ron.
I was asked to do a presentation at Pacific Audio Fest. But I needed to have a power point ready before they would schedule me. I did not have one. Don't know I have time at the moment. Not this year. I would like to do a seminar at a show. I should probably do Axpona and Munich.

Audiophile Junkie had me on a couple episodes.

OCD and I talked but I thought his setup while for the most part done ok had some eccentricities that were not code. Also nothing a user would be able to install, so his perceptions of what something sounds like may be skewed. Part of why I go for all copper. Its UL listed and labeled and anyone can install it as I specify.

I have 3 pending reviews with social media or publications. I sort of shot myself in the foot with the biggest magazine when I asked the reviewer why not take care of the walls with double rock or other such stuff while we had it open routing new wire. That process has dragged out for near a year now. Now that I am moving to Vashon Island, I don't know I will have the ability to do the work myself which I was intending to do. It was going to be a 3 part install. Here is stock electrician parts. Here is all copper parts. Here is Romex vs my grain oriented twisted wire (Have not made any in over a year). Here is an isolation transformer as well as unfiltered circuits to compare filters.

I really need to write a book. I have a lot of marked up images from over 100 jobs to explain how I want the wiring attached. My specification is specific to each job, but my master spec covers it all.

I have enough parts to make about 15 more all copper SqD NQ panelboards. Then I may be running into SqD following suit of all the other manufacturer and not provided copper throughout the panel. Commercial users are cheap. They only want low cost parts. Just the mechanical copper lugs on the input to the panel are costing me $350 a set. And I have been waiting now for 8 month to get more. I sort of think they are never going to make another manufacturing run. Owe well. I have enough to do my new home. I can always strip the important parts if I move and replace them with stock aluminum. There are certain parts that are special and make it come together. If someone were to purchase a panel from me and move, they could remove a few key components and put them in a new NQ interior and have a great panel again. It would only take and electrician about an hour to remove and replace with stock. Leave the rest. The can, interior and cover are all readily available.

Thanks, Kingrex. Folks need to know how to set up a solid electrical foundation. A book on the subject sounds terrific. I, for one, and many other professionals, would support the recommendation of your grain-oriented twisted cable, which you can sell to consumers directly. I'll send you a PM once I recover from three shows in three months

 

[Kingrex]

I compared stranded to solid years before I had horn speakers. At that time I prefered JPS labs in wall wires but then I compare them to what David recommended and I preferred David’s. My horns are not bright.

I have two panels. The one I use for Audio circuits have copper connections with some kind of coating. My electrician and I scraped off the coating. You saw the panel I use for the rest of the house before I added the new panel dedicated to Audio.

My only point was that some people care about power delivery dissagreeing with your claim that nobody does.

I scrape the tin off the copper on loadcenters phase bars. But I do it with 2000 grit paper, then polish it bright. Then go over it about 7 times with Deoxit to remove any residue. If you don't polish is bright, its covered in micro scratches and oxidation will fill the voides. If you don't Deoxit it, it will turn black and green very fast.

Every loadcenter has aluminum neutrals and grounds. Making those copper is critical. I can only do it with SqD NQ panrlboard or Benjamin. Benjamin are best to break down, polish, deoxit and reassemble. Not necessary, but best practice.
Takes 6 to 10 hours depending on how detailed I want to be.

Good on you for testing wires first. Better if you ran them in ENT tubing and can change them.

What did the JPS sound like?

 

[PeterA]

What did the JPS sound like?

You can read my thoughts on JPS wire in my two system threads are doing the search on the WBF advanced search tool. I don’t want to take this thread more off-topic.

 

[Kingrex]

I find it fascinating how few audiophile care about power. One lives 10 minutes from me. Has probably $300,000 in gear. Just remodeled the entire house. Electrical and all. Refuses to talk to me when told by a friend to call. All his power cords each cost more than a panelboard. Instead he used a piece of junk loadcenter. I bet he will spend more in duplexes trying to repair the damge of not doing his electrical correctly when he had the chance.
Had many others try and pump me for free information, then go it alone, still using junk loadcenters when remodeling or adding rooms. Foolish people. But I think it was Elliot that said Audiophile are cheap. They go for low cost, best deal, instead of doing things correctly. They spin their wheels and $$$ chasing good sounds incorrectly, and never have their speakers set properly and complain about the sound. Then buy a new $18,000 speaker cable chasing the dream.

The guy I know that bought the Mark L system gets it in a couple months. Mark is adamant he use the power cord and speaker cable provided. I'm curious to hear it.

 

[ssfas]

I spent a total of about $25,000 on my new electrical installation, $5,000 of which was a new connection to a 3-phase supply under the street and the network charge quite a bit for diggers, resurfacing, H&S etc. My speaker cables cost $140.

Back to the original post, I think Levinson make several good points.

I recently did a Garrard 301 build the artisan route he suggests, it was a lot of fun and I got a great turntable out of it.

I also have a local record store, the owner Alan knows my tastes and sometimes picks out records for me. I still buy mostly online from Juno.co.uk. I was speaking with a record store owner in Osaka, Japan, a few weeks ago and he said he also buys a lot from Juno.co.uk. That's how it is.

A lot of high-end, such as cables and fuses, is totally marketing driven and total nonsense.

Going to live music keeps it real and relateable. Tonight's ticket is $350, although it's Pappano's final performance as director of the Royal Opera and Jonas Kaufman is in the lead role. Thankfully the wife is going to yoga. Friday is Swan Lake (Royal Ballet), another $440 for the two of us. Sunday is Steven Osborne at Snape Maltings, a massive $30 for a morning of Schubert in a truly great concert hall. Add $100 for lunch afterwards.

So close to $1,000 on live music in the next week, but I find that much better value that hifi and $300,000 on a hifi system seems mad to me given it could fund perhaps 10 years of live music. Hifi may get incrementally better, but it will never get close to the sound of Schubert in the main hall at Snape Maltings. My modest system gets me at least into the realm of something that sounds vaguely real.

Here's Mitsuko Uchida at Snape talking about her multi award winning recording of the Diabelli Variations made there.

Mitsuko Uchida Records The Diabelli Variations - Mitsuko Uchida | Decca Classics

Mitsuko Uchida Records The Diabelli Variations - Mitsuko Uchida

www.deccaclassics.com

 

[Audiohertz2]

“Today, what I feel is that the high-end audio world has become a racket, a mafia that tries to take as much money as possible from music lovers. It has nothing to do with the original spirit of the whole thing, which was to use engineering and craftsmanship in the service of music and reproducing recordings,’’ Levinson asserts."

Mark should be flattered , he is being fully imitated by the industry he created ..

 

[Audiohertz2]

I spent a total of about $25,000 on my new electrical installation, $5,000 of which was a new connection to a 3-phase supply under the street and the network charge quite a bit for diggers, resurfacing, H&S etc. My speaker cables cost $140.

Back to the original post, I think Levinson make several good points.

I recently did a Garrard 301 build the artisan route he suggests, it was a lot of fun and I got a great turntable out of it.

I also have a local record store, the owner Alan knows my tastes and sometimes picks out records for me. I still buy mostly online from Juno.co.uk. I was speaking with a record store owner in Osaka, Japan, a few weeks ago and he said he also buys a lot from Juno.co.uk. That's how it is.

A lot of high-end, such as cables and fuses, is totally marketing driven and total nonsense.

Going to live music keeps it real and relateable. Tonight's ticket is $350, although it's Pappano's final performance as director of the Royal Opera and Jonas Kaufman is in the lead role. Thankfully the wife is going to yoga. Friday is Swan Lake (Royal Ballet), another $440 for the two of us. Sunday is Steven Osborne at Snape Maltings, a massive $30 for a morning of Schubert in a truly great concert hall. Add $100 for lunch afterwards.

So close to $1,000 on live music in the next week, but I find that much better value that hifi and $300,000 on a hifi system seems mad to me given it could fund perhaps 10 years of live music. Hifi may get incrementally better, but it will never get close to the sound of Schubert in the main hall at Snape Maltings. My modest system gets me at least into the realm of something that sounds vaguely real.

Here's Mitsuko Uchida at Snape talking about her multi award winning recording of the Diabelli Variations made there.

Mitsuko Uchida Records The Diabelli Variations - Mitsuko Uchida | Decca Classics

Mitsuko Uchida Records The Diabelli Variations - Mitsuko Uchida

www.deccaclassics.com

The quality of presses and your system is very imaginative recall driven vs live music..!

Its why some have no system , The music is in their head constantly once triggered the system sounds real to them ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

My feeling is that is okay to get scam if you realize it and willingly accept it, but the issue is that most don’t realize that they are getting scammed.

Even a good apple can turn into a bad apple if you let it.

Its not a scam if one buys willingly into a known known ..

 

[Lagonda]

Its not a scam if one buys willingly into a known known ..

It is not a scam, it is called marketing !

 

[Audiohertz2]

Obvious Price Gorging by some aside , the development work and dedication required to bring these Audio products to market should not be overlooked , in actuality making a great sounding product is easy vs creating a successful business model out of it ..

A lot of audiophiles buy into the business model for safety instead of all sonics from an iffy proposition ..

Nothing to gain tearing down those who can keep it going IMO..

 

[Kingrex]

Obvious Price Gorging by some aside , the development work and dedication required to bring these Audio products to market should not be overlooked , in actuality making a great sounding product is easy vs creating a successful business model out of it ..

A lot of audiophiles buy into the business model for safety instead of all sonics from an iffy proposition ..

Nothing to gain tearing down those who can keep it going IMO..

Very true. Art and business are 2 different things. Bringing a dream to life is a lot of dedication. Hats off to those that do it.