Massif Audio Design racks incoming, and......

[jeromelang]

Just weighing in here. I have two Massif racks and one amp stand, both of ash and also use the Daiza isolators between the gear and rack shelves. In some cases I also use Stein Super Natural Matrix footers both with and without the Daiza.
I don’t think i try to isolate as much as tune the components i have. To that point, I have found that ferrous metals aren’t my friend in getting the satisfying sound out of my gear. IMO of course.

people make the mistake of thinking magnetic field interference only happens with proximity to ferrous metal.

if you study the physics of eddy currents, you will know that the loops of current induced by changing magnetic fields nearby can happen within any conductive materials - including non-ferrous, and, non-magnetic metals. as long as that material conduct electricity, those circular currents within a piece of metal can still be induced to flow like eddies or whirlpools in a liquid.

also take note the proximity effect, in cases of externally induced eddy currents - the intensity of their effects diminishes with distances.

 

[jeromelang]

I think you meant eschewing, as in avoiding metals?

you're right. that was the word i had wanted to use: eschewing = avoiding

thanks.

 

[Backo NYC/SF]

people make the mistake of thinking magnetic field interference only happens with proximity to ferrous metal.

if you study the physics of eddy currents, you will know that the loops of current induced by changing magnetic fields nearby can happen within any conductive materials - including non-ferrous, and, non-magnetic metals. as long as that material conduct electricity, those circular currents within a piece of metal can still be induced to flow like eddies or whirlpools in a liquid.

also take note the proximity effect, in cases of externally induced eddy currents - the intensity of their effects diminishes with distances.

Thanks for the info. I do want to emphasize that I am only referring to my experience in any addition of ferrous materials used in isolation devices. Even so, nothing has been absolute. It’s strictly experimental for me and, even still, my goal is still to get the gear I have to sound like the gear I listened to when I’ve made my purchases.
Again, props to Bob @Rhapsody and Jeff @High Water Sound for providing outstanding opportunities to hear the gear I’ve bought in great environments.
Getting the foundation of my Massif racks was really a big element in this.

 

[T Boost]

Who’s going? I am.

 

[Salectric]

Another happy customer! Here’s my rack with Bubinga legs, maple shelves and Carbide Base footers.

 

[AudioHR]

Another happy customer! Here’s my rack with Bubinga legs, maple shelves and Carbide Base footers.View attachment 137628

I love the looks of these racks and they are massive, lol!
A question for @T Boost , Is there a reason you have the legs protruding above the top shelf?

 

[T Boost]

Another happy customer! Here’s my rack with Bubinga legs, maple shelves and Carbide Base footers.View attachment 137628

That rack turned out really nicely. You’ll be in for a treat when that new weight arrives.

I love the looks of these racks and they are massive, lol!
A question for @T Boost , Is there a reason you have the legs protruding above the top shelf?

Hi, thanks. Yes there is actually a reason. The bolts and washers that are needed to hold the uprights to the shelves are pretty substantial. (3” x 3/8” with a 9/16 head. ) the hole required for that bolt and washer is simply too big to have it centered while also making the leg flush with the top . I’ve done it a couple times before and the hole is so close to the top of the leg that it doesn’t look good. Secondly, from a woodworking standpoint, I prefer to have the wood secured by both the bolts as well as the leg. You can see in the pic I’ve attached that the leg protrudes 1” above the top shelf, if I had it cut to sit flush instead, you can see how close it would be to the bolt hole. It’s a careful balance between aesthetics, strength and quality.

Fun fact about Massif racks is that if you were to get a screw gun and reverse out all the bolts in your rack , nothing would happen. Your rack would still be standing straight up.
The bolts are used only to secure the legs, but are in no way load bearing. The dado joints cut into the leg absorb all the weight of both the shelf and the gear. Hence why we have zero weight limits. I hope that helps. Take care

 

[timztunz]

Another happy customer! Here’s my rack with Bubinga legs, maple shelves and Carbide Base footers.View attachment 137628

Congratulations! Trev does GREAT work!

 

[dminches]

What is the weight limit of the top and bottom shelves in that configuration?

 

[T Boost]

What is the weight limit of the top and bottom shelves in that configuration?

There’s no weight limit. There isn’t gear heavy enough for our racks.
I’ve personally tested that with just over 500lbs, as that was as much weight as I had on hand (bags of cement) I’ve had customers and dealers put more weight than that and had zero load deflection.

Several years ago Jonathan at Sonic Artistry in Toronto who is also a structural(?) engineer , looked into his Massif rack that has just over 400lbs on the top shelf and reported no deflection.

I’ll message him and see if he can chime in.

You have to understand that the wood we use is hardwood not MDF, no veneered ply, not aluminum and not light gauge steel. Some of these woods like ebony, rosewood, Pau ferro, Jatoba etc are 2 or 3x more dense than even maple, cherry or even walnut. When a shelf is 1.75” thick, its can probably handle 1000lbs or more. Forever.

 

[PeterA]

My rack is all mahogany. The top shelf is 3” X 48” X 22” and covers the tops of the four posts. It supports 1,000 lbs of gear easily, though I did reinforce my floor directly under the four rack posts. These hardwood racks can be very strong and as Trev says, last forever.

 

[T Boost]

There’s no weight limit. There isn’t gear heavy enough for our racks.
I’ve personally tested that with just over 500lbs, as that was as much weight as I had on hand (bags of cement) I’ve had customers and dealers put more weight than that and had zero load deflection.

Several years ago Jonathan at Sonic Artistry in Toronto who is also a structural(?) engineer , looked into his Massif rack that has just over 400lbs on the top shelf and reported no deflection.

I’ll message him and see if he can chime in.

You have to understand that the wood we use is hardwood not MDF, no veneered ply, not aluminum and not light gauge steel. Some of these woods like ebony, rosewood, Pau ferro, Jatoba etc are 2 or 3x more dense than even maple, cherry or even walnut. When a shelf is 1.75” thick, its can probably handle 1000lbs or more. Forever.

My rack is all mahogany. The top shelf is 3” X 48” X 22” and covers the tops of the four posts. It supports 1,000 lbs of gear easily, though I did reinforce my floor directly under the four rack posts. These hardwood racks can be very strong and as Trev says, last forever.

I’ve done a few 3” thick racks. I think Gary R on here has one as well. 3” is great, but for the purpose of strength it’s a bit overkill. You could probably park an Escalade on that and not worry .

 

[PeterA]

I’ve done a few 3” thick racks. I think Gary R on here has one as well. 3” is great, but for the purpose of strength it’s a bit overkill. You could probably park an Escalade on that and not worry .

Yes, I was doing it for aesthetics. The lower shelves are 2 inches thick. The furniture maker told me it would likely support 2000 pounds. Four feet is a fairly long span. If I had the space, I would have a two shelf rack long enough for four or five components and low with 3 inch shelves.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...here is some interesting info on wood strength by species. Janka (hardness) is not the full story:

"When it comes to woods that are both commercially available and also found in respectable sizes, what rises to the top of the heap is ipe, with a strength index of 70.4. And closely allied to size is also affordability. It’s simple math: if a tree is large enough to be commercially viable, the wood is usually also less expensive when compared to other smaller, more specialty-oriented hardwoods such as snakewood."

For more info:

World's Strongest Woods | The Wood Database

www.wood-database.com

---Markus "Wood is Good" Barkus

 

[T Boost]

...here is some interesting info on wood strength by species. Janka (hardness) is not the full story:

"When it comes to woods that are both commercially available and also found in respectable sizes, what rises to the top of the heap is ipe, with a strength index of 70.4. And closely allied to size is also affordability. It’s simple math: if a tree is large enough to be commercially viable, the wood is usually also less expensive when compared to other smaller, more specialty-oriented hardwoods such as snakewood."

For more info:

World's Strongest Woods | The Wood Database

www.wood-database.com

---Markus "Wood is Good" Barkus

I was slightly generalizing as I don’t think most people have even heard of the Janka scale let alone can appreciate the difference between MOR, MOE etc. my point was more pointed at the fact that hardwoods are more than strong enough to support electronics if the rack is built properly. The differences between authentic Lignum and something lighter like maple, but they are both still light years ahead of soft woods and MDF on the strength scale.

Let’s not get into how some woods can even sound different….


I’m actually thinking my own next rack will be rock maple shelves on lignum vitae legs.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I did a small stand for my if-it-ever-gets-here Taiko Olympus with maple top and leopard wood legs. That leopard wood looks nice. I have no proper shop any more, so if I do a new rack, I will surely be ringing your bell, @T Boost because your stands are fabulous!

 

[JEB42]

There’s no weight limit. There isn’t gear heavy enough for our racks.
I’ve personally tested that with just over 500lbs, as that was as much weight as I had on hand (bags of cement) I’ve had customers and dealers put more weight than that and had zero load deflection.

Several years ago Jonathan at Sonic Artistry in Toronto who is also a structural(?) engineer , looked into his Massif rack that has just over 400lbs on the top shelf and reported no deflection.

I’ll message him and see if he can chime in.

You have to understand that the wood we use is hardwood not MDF, no veneered ply, not aluminum and not light gauge steel. Some of these woods like ebony, rosewood, Pau ferro, Jatoba etc are 2 or 3x more dense than even maple, cherry or even walnut. When a shelf is 1.75” thick, its can probably handle 1000lbs or more. Forever.

Actually a Mechanical Engineer not structural. It had two Vibraplances that had been filled in with Acoustic Magic at the time. Each Vibraplane weighed close to 200 lbs each. The turntable and Soulution 755 added almost another 200 lbs. So close to 600 lbs actually. No deflection. It was used that way for a couple of years....the Seismion's make life much easier at a fraction of the weight of the Vibraplanes HAHAHAHA.

My rack is Bubinga. Shelves are 1.75" thick.

 

[T Boost]

...I did a small stand for my if-it-ever-gets-here Taiko Olympus with maple top and leopard wood legs. That leopard wood looks nice. I have no proper shop any more, so if I do a new rack, I will surely be ringing your bell, @T Boost because your stands are fabulous!

Thanks!

I do like leopard wood, and I did a rack of maple and leopard wood for the Toronto show in 2016. It sold at the show.
I often collect wood that would be great for legs but just too expensive for an entire rack, and they usually end up being my new rack. Brazilian rosewood , curly Gabon ebony, Mpingo, lignum vitae, ziricote, and I even have Amazon and Panamanian rosewood legs.

 

[T Boost]

Actually a Mechanical Engineer not structural. It had two Vibraplances that had been filled in with Acoustic Magic at the time. Each Vibraplane weighed close to 200 lbs each. The turntable and Soulution 755 added almost another 200 lbs. So close to 600 lbs actually. No deflection. It was used that way for a couple of years....the Seismion's make life much easier at a fraction of the weight of the Vibraplanes HAHAHAHA.

My rack is Bubinga. Shelves are 1.75" thick.

Oh just a mechanical engineer? Forget it then……