Millennials, Please Check In!
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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It is probably best to view audio as a group of competing cults or religions based on aspirations of fantasy fulfillment.
Audio is as faddish and fashion slut as any other commodities market. Waste your money an an expensive FOTM at your peril.
Never follow the path of an obsessive compulsive collector for whom the hunt, kill and possess with ready money are the main gratifications, unless that is your particular joy as well.
Like in school, they say that at least 50 percent of everything you learn will be wrong, and your education begins by sorting out the 50 percent that isn’t.
Old guys with miles of piles, fluttering hundred dollar bills everywhere they go, with frustrated grandiose aspirations will, of course, compete with their money for status craft objects. That should not be confused with pursuing audio quality, although there MIGHT be an interface where both exist in parallel.
Especially with men, some of this stems from delayed gratification because of careers and family demands until they reach a ‘safe spot’ where they can indulge themselves again. I used to buy a lot of great audio from young guys with scowling pregnant wives in the background. The sports cars and audio were over until the rug rats were evicted.
Audio is full of opinionated, stentorian authority uttered from the mount with found tablets. Don’t believe any of it until you have heard it yourself, and don’t be shy about saying you don’t agree.
If you know what you are looking for, you can find incredible bargains and amazing sound amongst the fashion cast offs of yesteryear. Unfortunately, the expertise of knowing what these are can be hard won.
That said, today I am listening to a system with an efficient midrange ribbon(300hz to 7khz), utilizing a $250 Chinese tube amp from eBay with tiny output transformers, sporting 1.3 watt globe amplifier tubes made in the 1930’s (182b tubes). The Telefunken ecc 803 cult tubes sit fallow as I use a much better sounding set of NEC 12ad7 tubes. I am listening to compressed music @160 cps. The sound is loud, utterly gorgeous, hypnotic and transportive. How many high end shibboleths does this violate?
Both objectivists and subjectivists are telling me I need huge toe stubbing ingot amps pumping out hundreds if not thousands of watts with hi-rez sources to capture the elusive 120db transient. Go figure.
Audio is as faddish and fashion slut as any other commodities market. Waste your money an an expensive FOTM at your peril.
Never follow the path of an obsessive compulsive collector for whom the hunt, kill and possess with ready money are the main gratifications, unless that is your particular joy as well.
Like in school, they say that at least 50 percent of everything you learn will be wrong, and your education begins by sorting out the 50 percent that isn’t.
Old guys with miles of piles, fluttering hundred dollar bills everywhere they go, with frustrated grandiose aspirations will, of course, compete with their money for status craft objects. That should not be confused with pursuing audio quality, although there MIGHT be an interface where both exist in parallel.
Especially with men, some of this stems from delayed gratification because of careers and family demands until they reach a ‘safe spot’ where they can indulge themselves again. I used to buy a lot of great audio from young guys with scowling pregnant wives in the background. The sports cars and audio were over until the rug rats were evicted.
Audio is full of opinionated, stentorian authority uttered from the mount with found tablets. Don’t believe any of it until you have heard it yourself, and don’t be shy about saying you don’t agree.
If you know what you are looking for, you can find incredible bargains and amazing sound amongst the fashion cast offs of yesteryear. Unfortunately, the expertise of knowing what these are can be hard won.
That said, today I am listening to a system with an efficient midrange ribbon(300hz to 7khz), utilizing a $250 Chinese tube amp from eBay with tiny output transformers, sporting 1.3 watt globe amplifier tubes made in the 1930’s (182b tubes). The Telefunken ecc 803 cult tubes sit fallow as I use a much better sounding set of NEC 12ad7 tubes. I am listening to compressed music @160 cps. The sound is loud, utterly gorgeous, hypnotic and transportive. How many high end shibboleths does this violate?
Both objectivists and subjectivists are telling me I need huge toe stubbing ingot amps pumping out hundreds if not thousands of watts with hi-rez sources to capture the elusive 120db transient. Go figure.
And what would you like for your entree to go with your word-salad sir?
Nice narrative Carl. My guess is that your current Heath Robinson system wasn't anything you could have imagined when you were thinking of upgrading from the 80s Sony Walkman. You've certainly walked yr own path and reached Rome/Nirvana yr own way.
Me? I very nearly went down the Linn/Naim road. Then the Wilson/Krell path. Then the Martin Logan/Musical Fidelity route. All of these would have been the simple, logical, expected decisions. And thus I ignored them, as a partially (at least) contrarian audiophile.
I caught that Sjraen 6Moons Zu review in the mid 2000s, and despite my (non Zu) dealer at the time turning his nose up at the thought, I'm hugely pleased I went against the grain on that decision. Twelve years of occasional downs but mainly ups, via the now compulsory direction to SETs, opened up a very different approach to music reproduction at home. Rim drive tt/air LT arm/Straingauge cart was another left field decision just as I was v close to splashing the cash on a belt drive TW Acustic AC3/pivoted Graham arm. Again, the start of a journey to total enjoyment, but by no means the obvious choices.
As a small fish in a big pond re the therapy sector in my work, I've strived hard to provide a modestly unique approach to patients to stay competitive versus the bigger more conveyor belt type clinics.
And I've ended up looking for similarly unorthodox players in the audio market, even the most well known name in my system, Soundsmith carts, still often a bridesmaid/Cinderella to the big players like Lyra, Clearaudio and Koetsu.
This isn't obviously a Boomer attitude. My guess is love for brands like Zu is maybe more a Millenial or Gen X thing. As a Boomer, wouldn't I be more likely to have that SME/DCS/D'Ag or AR/Wilson or ML system, as opposed to the weird British enthusiast tt and arm/US punch above their weight price point cart/French underground cdp/Sebian counterculture amps/Utah based Golden Age audio-inspired spkrs reimagined for today?
Carl, agree with everything but the last para where I agree with the objectivists and subjectivists
Yeah, it was a rant, but there does seem to be a difference between 'educating' Millennials about audio vs. simply provoking them to ever more expensive serial commercial acquisitions. I guess the mixed signals about mission goals annoyed me a bit.
Carl, I really do think the hobby in it's present form is divided into 2 or 3 sectors. The first 1 or 2 are the uber performance/price sectors, the Can Jam crowd and real blue collar gear like Zu, LTA, Rega, MHDT etc. Appealing to Millenials, Gen X and Z (certainly trying to get the Zsters to spend SOME money on gear). $5k gets you a VERY creditable system w these brands incl analog and digital, tube amp and high efficiency spkrs.
And then there is the last sector. The usual suspects churning out more and more stratospherically priced bling chasing the ever more contracting group of Boomers with way too much money to spend, and the new group of super rich. This surely is a limited group, and artificially swelled by the existence of a number of audiophiles really prepared to spend. I'm sure that plays a big part in marques happy to market $50k tonearms and $70k ground boxes.
And then there is the last sector. The usual suspects churning out more and more stratospherically priced bling chasing the ever more contracting group of Boomers with way too much money to spend, and the new group of super rich. This surely is a limited group, and artificially swelled by the existence of a number of audiophiles really prepared to spend. I'm sure that plays a big part in marques happy to market $50k tonearms and $70k ground boxes.
Ron - thanks for starting this really interesting thread.
All - Very cool to hear the stories of people's audio journeys thus far and what inspired them - both from the younger folks and the bit less young. Helps keep things in perspective and reminds me of music's transcendence.
All - Very cool to hear the stories of people's audio journeys thus far and what inspired them - both from the younger folks and the bit less young. Helps keep things in perspective and reminds me of music's transcendence.
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Ctydwn, learn from mine and Cjfrbw's mistakes, as we learnt from the mistakes of those before us, w too much cash and too little discretion Lol.
Carl, I'm hoping w the mantra of "watch and learn" from one generation to the next younger one, that current 5 year old audiophiles will get their decision making spot on.
Born in 1976 so guess that makes me a Gen Z.
When I got my first summer job at 16 years old, I started working in a restaurant and was practically thrown in to replace two people that just left. Working 14 hour days, long weeks and overtime, the first major purchase I made was a crappy $600 "CD System" from Circuit City. And that was in 1992 dollars. I think that "moment" was when as a freshman in college, a friend introduced me to the local hi-fi store and listen to a pair of B&W bookshelf speakers with an Adcom amp and I was blown away.
By my second year in college I was working, lived in an apartment near campus and had a 7.1 system with a Lexicon DC1, Linn speakers and turntable with a Pioneer Elite laserdisc player. Spent hours and hours a week at the local CD Superstore listening to everything I could. Then a real job, family and my hobby had to be put aside for more important things like paying off a house and kids among other things.
My point is that anyone can get hooked on this hobby at an early age if the conditions are right but we need to encourage, inform and invite those people over to our house, get them to sit down and experience the joy that we get out of listening to great music that sounds anything more lifelike than what they're hearing on their earbuds or Beats headphones.
It doesn't have to be a mega system. A few thousand dollars can go very far and get their toes dipped in to the pool. The OTHER major difference is the advantage music streaming brings to the table, something I could have only dreamed of in my days. The whole point of this hobby is to enable an "emotional response" with music. It's no longer necessary to spend all that money on a vast music collection - it's so accessible now. It's up to the old vanguard to help usher the next generation of "audiophiles" to this hobby and that if they work hard, they might have the money to keep this industry going. Certainly more women could be brought into this as well.
When I got my first summer job at 16 years old, I started working in a restaurant and was practically thrown in to replace two people that just left. Working 14 hour days, long weeks and overtime, the first major purchase I made was a crappy $600 "CD System" from Circuit City. And that was in 1992 dollars. I think that "moment" was when as a freshman in college, a friend introduced me to the local hi-fi store and listen to a pair of B&W bookshelf speakers with an Adcom amp and I was blown away.
By my second year in college I was working, lived in an apartment near campus and had a 7.1 system with a Lexicon DC1, Linn speakers and turntable with a Pioneer Elite laserdisc player. Spent hours and hours a week at the local CD Superstore listening to everything I could. Then a real job, family and my hobby had to be put aside for more important things like paying off a house and kids among other things.
My point is that anyone can get hooked on this hobby at an early age if the conditions are right but we need to encourage, inform and invite those people over to our house, get them to sit down and experience the joy that we get out of listening to great music that sounds anything more lifelike than what they're hearing on their earbuds or Beats headphones.
It doesn't have to be a mega system. A few thousand dollars can go very far and get their toes dipped in to the pool. The OTHER major difference is the advantage music streaming brings to the table, something I could have only dreamed of in my days. The whole point of this hobby is to enable an "emotional response" with music. It's no longer necessary to spend all that money on a vast music collection - it's so accessible now. It's up to the old vanguard to help usher the next generation of "audiophiles" to this hobby and that if they work hard, they might have the money to keep this industry going. Certainly more women could be brought into this as well.
Thanks! The kids love watching their Netflix and Disney Channel stuff on the system.
I just borrowed a Levinson 5805 Integrated just to compare and the Cinema 5 went toe-to-toe on the amp side. The DAC wasn‘t that much better either but the preamp section is where the 5805 went significantly deeper with better control on the bottom and slightly more detailed - in my system/room at least.
Since I live about 15 minutes away from Cary Audio, they’re going to let me try out a SLP-98 and SLP-05 to compare. This might end up costing me if those pieces are as good as some people say
Great premise for a thread . The old guys started this off with negativity . great way to welcome the Millenials which I am . There is your problem . The Boomers can't accept us .
We'll accept you when you keep up w our humour. Of course, we're closer to the great unknown than you, so you have more time to practice.
@maplegrovemusic older dudes try to not be too ageist. Uncomfortable topic in general but especially for those getting ever closer towards moving to the light.
I never really see the generational issue as core and isolation and separation is an extreme we can no longer afford and all of us have people of all generations happily in our lives.
It’s a line drawn by people who like to think too much and put boundaries around things so that they can then box them out. I always figure looking for connections is more helpful than looking for distinctions. Perhaps i gen might at last give way to all gen and a few of the human barriers to union are finally dissolved.
I never really see the generational issue as core and isolation and separation is an extreme we can no longer afford and all of us have people of all generations happily in our lives.
It’s a line drawn by people who like to think too much and put boundaries around things so that they can then box them out. I always figure looking for connections is more helpful than looking for distinctions. Perhaps i gen might at last give way to all gen and a few of the human barriers to union are finally dissolved.
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My wife and I are just above and just below the cut off for millenials- we fell in love with good audio through Dennis Prager. I remember hearing a shoe scuff the floor in a hi fi rendition of brahms on a well designed system and thinking- no way- you can hear that? What else is hidden in these recordings? Beauty and often compelling imperfection.
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