MSB Diamond DAC IV Reviewed By Stereophile

[asiufy]

I don't think it was designed with the darTZeel in mind, otherwise there'd be an option for Zeel BNC outputs there.
I'm guessing it's just a happy coincidence
I've written to MSB about this, so let's see what they say...


alexandre

 

[edorr]

I am having trouble getting a Galaxy clock from MSB for auditioning. I wonder if I should just order the Femto 140 clock as a leap of faith and be done with it. Anyone that got the clock thinks there is any risk of me concluding the clock would NOT be worth the money and me regretting the desicion?

 

[rockitman]

get the galaxy..you have gone all out assault on digital.

 

[Orb]

Edorr, worth noting that MC in HifiCritic suggests one really needs to audition the clock as he and other listeners who visited preferred the DAC IV without it.
However he states it comes down to a combination of personal preference and the listeners system; in his system the DAC IV lost what he liked with regards to the perception of flow-timing and the good aspect of what is perceived as good digital in comparison to analogue, while the clock did provide a bit more resolution and snap.
My own words so please appreciate only conveying the essence of his conclusion.

Cheers
Orb

 

[asiufy]

I thought there was a money back guarantee thing on FemtoClock, see here: http://www.msbtech.com/products/galaxy.php?Page=platinumHome

 

[microstrip]

If the MSB output is 50ohms, does that mean it is 'designed' to be able to go into the Zeel directly? Just curious to learn for future reference.

Not necessarily and perhaps it will not drive the DartZeel 50 ohms BNC input optimally! Just because an unit has 50 ohm output does not imply it is prepared to drive a 50 ohm input load. Many units having a low output impedance are not prepared to supply the current needed by such a low load, and even those which are able to do it will show more distortion when used with a 50 ohm load.

The Playback units BNC outputs were specifically designed to drive 50 ohm, I have never taken notice of any other DAC that claims such specification, but probably they exist!

In any case you have to listen, but should remember that when you connect a 50 ohm output to a 50 ohm input the level decreases by 6dB - during listening tests you should compensate for it in the volume control.

 

[edorr]

Not necessarily and perhaps it will not drive the DartZeel 50 ohms BNC input optimally! Just because an unit has 50 ohm output does not imply it is prepared to drive a 50 ohm input load. Many units having a low output impedance are not prepared to supply the current needed by such a low load, and even those which are able to do it will show more distortion when used with a 50 ohm load.

The Playback units BNC outputs were specifically designed to drive 50 ohm, I have never taken notice of any other DAC that claims such specification, but probably they exist!

In any case you have to listen, but should remember that when you connect a 50 ohm output to a 50 ohm input the level decreases by 6dB - during listening tests you should compensate for it in the volume control.

Note that the MSB has output impedance of 100ohm on the balanced outputs. 50ohm is single ended.

 

[edorr]

I thought there was a money back guarantee thing on FemtoClock, see here: http://www.msbtech.com/products/galaxy.php?Page=platinumHome

Brilliant! I asked Vince @ MSB if he could sell me the Femto and allow me to ship it back in 30 days if I don't like it. He said they have never done this and don't have this policy. I'll send him this page and take MSB up on their offer!

Only caveat is this offer applies to the Galaxy clock, not the Femto, but that should make no difference.

 

[edorr]

Edorr, worth noting that MC in HifiCritic suggests one really needs to audition the clock as he and other listeners who visited preferred the DAC IV without it.
However he states it comes down to a combination of personal preference and the listeners system; in his system the DAC IV lost what he liked with regards to the perception of flow-timing and the good aspect of what is perceived as good digital in comparison to analogue, while the clock did provide a bit more resolution and snap.
My own words so please appreciate only conveying the essence of his conclusion.

Cheers
Orb

Interesting. I never seen this comment. I'll reread the review. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Orb]

Interesting. I never seen this comment. I'll reread the review. Thanks for pointing this out.

Just as a heads up it is in Jan-Mar 2012 publication, was done as a separate review to the initial DACIV one (still involving DACIV and using either a signature or diamond power base).
Cheers
Orb

 

[edorr]

Just as a heads up it is in Jan-Mar 2012 publication, was done as a separate review to the initial DACIV one (still involving DACIV and using either a signature or diamond power base).
Cheers
Orb

Thanks. Wonder it that one is posted on the MSB site. I know they have some HiFicritic reviews posted, but may have opportunistically left this one out.

 

[edorr]

Just as a heads up it is in Jan-Mar 2012 publication, was done as a separate review to the initial DACIV one (still involving DACIV and using either a signature or diamond power base).
Cheers
Orb

This appears not to be downloadable content. is there any way you can get me a copy or link?

It appears I can order a single copy of the mag for about $16. Is it worth it?

 

[Orb]

I only have hardcopy myself, just dug it out and this is what he says he found missing:

However, rather mystifyingly for my listeners and myself, the overall result seemed less unified, and in a musical sense, less flowing, less naturally rythmic, and perhaps a bit larger than life....

The positive relating to system/preference:

It certainly sounds different, and some listeners may well perceive it as better. Indeed, in some systems it may actually be better. For example, if a system sounds a little dulled, recessed, and lacking in vitality, a Galaxy clock upgrade has the potential to polish things up a bit.

In the end the conclusion is that it does sound different but it comes down to preference and possible synergy improvement adding the clock (summed up in my other post).
It is a mini review that is a page in the publication, but pretty informative however not sure it is worth spending £8 just buying it for that review - I like HiFiCritic as a whole read, same as other audio publications I subscribe to.

Ok Whatsbest...
Am I the only one who looks to try and support audio by ensuring publications carry on and maintain some kind of public presence
Edorr not being critical just having a joke - so many on here do not subscribe to audio publications, what else to read while sitting on the toilet or passing time bah
More seriously seems it would be very risky buying blind the Galaxy clock, not something I would do myself tbh.
Cheers
Orb

 

[edorr]

I only have hardcopy myself, just dug it out and this is what he says he found missing:

The positive relating to system/preference:


In the end the conclusion is that it does sound different but it comes down to preference and possible synergy improvement adding the clock (summed up in my other post).
It is a mini review that is a page in the publication, but pretty informative however not sure it is worth spending £8 just buying it for that review - I like HiFiCritic as a whole read, same as other audio publications I subscribe to.

Ok Whatsbest...
Am I the only one who looks to try and support audio by ensuring publications carry on and maintain some kind of public presence
Edorr not being critical just having a joke - so many on here do not subscribe to audio publications, what else to read while sitting on the toilet or passing time bah
More seriously seems it would be very risky buying blind the Galaxy clock, not something I would do myself tbh.
Cheers
Orb

Thanks. I was planning to buy the clock unheard, but this datapoint makes me reconsider.

 

[Orb]

I would be hesitant and try to force for either a guaranteed refund if not happy or push for a demo and not buy unless this is met, I find Martin Colloms' review pretty well balanced and thought out, as was his DACIV review in the earlier publication.

Cheers
Orb

 

[edorr]

I would be hesitant and try to force for either a guaranteed refund if not happy or push for a demo and not buy unless this is met, I find Martin Colloms' review pretty well balanced and thought out, as was his DACIV review in the earlier publication.

Cheers
Orb

I'll chew on it a bit before making my next move.

 

[asiufy]

I'm sorry, but I don't think an improvement in clarity and transparency to be "system dependant". Unless you don't want your system to be more transparent and natural
The clock is so vital to the MSB solution that they ended up bundling it in (or at least a simpler variation of the Galaxy clock) inside the new "plus" versions of the DAC IV.
As with all things MSB: I don't necessarily agree with their pricing, but their add-ons are excellent.


alexandre

 

[asiufy]

Not necessarily and perhaps it will not drive the DartZeel 50 ohms BNC input optimally! Just because an unit has 50 ohm output does not imply it is prepared to drive a 50 ohm input load. Many units having a low output impedance are not prepared to supply the current needed by such a low load, and even those which are able to do it will show more distortion when used with a 50 ohm load.

The Playback units BNC outputs were specifically designed to drive 50 ohm, I have never taken notice of any other DAC that claims such specification, but probably they exist!

In any case you have to listen, but should remember that when you connect a 50 ohm output to a 50 ohm input the level decreases by 6dB - during listening tests you should compensate for it in the volume control.

I did some more back and forth, and decided to use the regular RCA connections. Through the "hack" (RCA into BNC Zeel via adapter), the sound was more "nervous", with a more prominent high frequencies, which could, depending on the music selection, give an impression of being "better".

Of course, levels were adjusted to the best of my ability, given that the 18NS doesn't have a numerical volume indicator

Anyway, I haven't heard back from MSB, so I might just wait and see, and perhaps suggest a proper BNC/Zeel output as an add-on.


alexandre

 

[Orb]

I'm sorry, but I don't think an improvement in clarity and transparency to be "system dependant". Unless you don't want your system to be more transparent and natural
The clock is so vital to the MSB solution that they ended up bundling it in (or at least a simpler variation of the Galaxy clock) inside the new "plus" versions of the DAC IV.
As with all things MSB: I don't necessarily agree with their pricing, but their add-ons are excellent.


alexandre

Alexandre, best to read the review tbh as I am not saying anything about further-better transparency (may had been my mistake using that word in my initial post) rather other aspects that changed.
The DAC IV is already incredibly resolving and transparent.
Edit:
Just to add MC feels it is one of the very best and probably the best DACs he has heard (DAC IV), this was without the additional clock.

Has anyone actually reviewed a plus model yet and in comparison to DAC IV?
Cheers
Orb

 

[asiufy]

Orb,

I'm not basing my comments on MC's review, but on my own listening to the gear. Of course, I'd love to read his review, but my subscription ran out, since I was expecting them to come out with a digital subscription, but alas, nothing so far...

Anyway, it seems he gave something like 200 points to the MSB. Is this before or after the Vivaldi? For reference, how many points did that get, or the dCS Scarlatti?

The plus model is just the DAC IV with a simplified Galaxy clock. So, DAC IV + Galaxy > DAC IV Plus.

thanks,
alexandre