MSB Discrete to Premier

bryans

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So in fulfilling my promise to report back, I have the K50 (so not more Mac Mini) which is proving to be a huge improvement. I even had a MSB Renderer V2 in here and A/B them and it was no contest. K50 by a large margin, the compounding clocks just win out over the MSB renderer, which is as it should be when one considers the cost difference. My Switch (HNE LABs) is installed and that made such an impact I ordered a second to layer them. This was one of my better upgrades to my front end, the switch and the K50.

What I have not done yet is convince myself the Premier DAC should be my next step. I've bought new speakers (Wilsons) so I might wait until after I break them in. The Discrete with two power supplies is really fantastic, but my curiousity for the Premier is unrelenting, as I feel that is where I should have jumped in.
My advice is to just enjoy what you currently have. After you get things the way you like, reach out to MSB for a home demo of the premier. You will know if an upgrade is worth it. The Discrete is an awesome unit so I'm sure music is flowing in your home nicely.
 
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skids929

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My advice is to just enjoy what you currently have. After you get things the way you like, reach out to MSB for a home demo of the premier. You will know if an upgrade is worth it. The Discrete is an awesome unit so I'm sure music is flowing in your home nicely.
Yeah the issue is MSB doesn't have any to loan out at the moment since they're having to keep up with orders. I can call around to some dealers but most of them are leary on lending that DAC out to someone who is non-committal. I can't tell if it's because they don't want to lose sales, or the Premier is just not that much better than the Discrete with 2 power supplies, or both.

Won't know any of this until I listen. I know my system's every little nuance so since I listen to it ALOT, if the Premier is going to make a worthwhile difference that matters I will hear it for sure.
 

b345t

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Hey, any update on your findings? I am thinking about getting an MSB too and am on the fence about Discrete vs Premiere..! Cheers
 

Motoman

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Yeah the issue is MSB doesn't have any to loan out at the moment since they're having to keep up with orders. I can call around to some dealers but most of them are leary on lending that DAC out to someone who is non-committal. I can't tell if it's because they don't want to lose sales, or the Premier is just not that much better than the Discrete with 2 power supplies, or both.

Won't know any of this until I listen. I know my system's every little nuance so since I listen to it ALOT, if the Premier is going to make a worthwhile difference that matters I will hear it for sure.
Keep in mind that the Premier goes with the Premier Power Base, which is a significant upgrade from the Discrete's single power supply. I run my Discrete with the Premier Power base, which was a marked improvement and provided more "oomph" to the music. So make sure that you compare both DAC's using the Premier Power Base for a fair comparison.
 
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Elberoth

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Anyone compared Discrete dual PSUs vs Premier Power Base ?
 

bryans

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Anyone compared Discrete dual PSUs vs Premier Power Base ?
I did compare (not at the same time in my system) a Premier with Dual PSU and a Premier with Premium Power Base. When I first did a demo of the Premier MSB didn't have a power base on hand so I was given Dual PSU from the Discrete. To my ears the power base made a big improvement. I just seemed to enjoy the Premier more. The music became smoother. The vocals in my system where more focused and detailed. Now before I listened to the Premier Power base I thought the Premier DAC was outstanding. So it really is one of those things where I would have been extremely happy with the Dual PSU.
 

Motoman

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So in fulfilling my promise to report back, I have the K50 (so no more Mac Mini) which is proving to be a huge improvement. I even had a MSB Renderer V2 in here and A/B them and it was no contest. K50 by a large margin, the compounding clocks just win out over the MSB renderer, which is as it should be when one considers the cost difference. My Switch (HNE LABs) is installed and that made such an impact I ordered a second to layer them. This was one of my better upgrades to my front end, the switch and the K50.

What I have not done yet is convince myself the Premier DAC should be my next step. I've bought new speakers (Wilsons) so I might wait until after I break them in. The Discrete with two power supplies is really fantastic, but my curiousity for the Premier is unrelenting, as I feel that is where I should have jumped in.
I have Wilson Sabrina X's. When I got my Discrete and was waiting for the Premier Power Base, I used one power supply on the Discrete and it was frankly, somewhat anemic. Two supplies was a definite improvement. Then the Power Base came and that was definitely the ticket. Everything was significantly improved. Then I swapped out the stock umbilicals for Revelation Audio umbilicals, and that was a definitely audible improvement. So although I wonder if I should get the Premier, without actually hearing it in my setup, I am resisting. Until you have maxed out your existing setup, I wouldn't spend the big bucks to upgrade to the Premier.
 

shawnf

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Jan 1, 2022
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I have Wilson Sabrina X's. When I got my Discrete and was waiting for the Premier Power Base, I used one power supply on the Discrete and it was frankly, somewhat anemic. Two supplies was a definite improvement. Then the Power Base came and that was definitely the ticket. Everything was significantly improved. Then I swapped out the stock umbilicals for Revelation Audio umbilicals, and that was a definitely audible improvement. So although I wonder if I should get the Premier, without actually hearing it in my setup, I am resisting. Until you have maxed out your existing setup, I wouldn't spend the big bucks to upgrade to the Premier.
Premier owner here using 2 Discrete PSUs with my DAC. Mine is a rare unit bought from the time when MSB allowed purchase of Premier DACs with Discrete PSUs. I also have a Discrete DAC which is now loaned to a friend, also with a dual PSU configuration. As I dont have a Powerbase, I can only share what I hear based on the setup that I have and on my system the improvements are there but marginal. I can definitely live with the Discrete right now and both DACs have amazing synergy with my Antipodes CX.

I've noticed the power cords you plug into the PSUs play an important role as well. I was initially mixing power cables - a generic cord and a Shunyata. Then I swapped out the generic cable and went dual Shunyatas and the sound went up in a big positive way.

I was looking at the Revelation Audio Umbilicals for the Discrete PSU. How much of an improvement do they bring from a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the most? And what are to audible improvements?
 
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Motoman

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Premier owner here using 2 Discrete PSUs with my DAC. I've noticed the power cords you plug into the PSUs play an important role as well. I was initially mixing power cables - a generic cord and a Shunyata. Then I swapped the generic cable and went dual Shunyatas and the sound went up in a big positive way.

I was looking at the Revelation Audio Umbilicals for the Discrete PSU. How much of an improvement do they bring from a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the most? And what are to audible improvements?
I have a Shunyata Alpha V2 PC plugged into the Premier Power Base. But it replaced and Audience PowerChord, which is a good PC, and I didn't really hear much of a difference between them, but I had a complete Shunyata loom. But the Revelation Audio umblicals really made a difference. I would say a 15% improvement over stock. To me, when you get an audible improvement in a higher end system for $685, you can't go wrong. I think that you are gypping yourself by using two Discrete power supplies though. I would definitely get the Revelation umbilicals and the Power Base, and sell both of the Discrete power supplies to subsidize the cost of the Power Base. Then you have maximized the MSB DAC setup.
 
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shawnf

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How do you find the discrete compares to the premier?
In my setup, Premier has:

- slightly better micro details
- fleshes out the vocals a bit better
- more coherent sounding in extremely busy passages

I find that for PRAT and rhythm and tempo, both are similar with a muscular propulsive low end. Bass is a definite strength of MSB DACs based from my experience of these 2 units.
 
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shawnf

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Jan 1, 2022
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I have a Shunyata Alpha V2 PC plugged into the Premier Power Base. But it replaced and Audience PowerChord, which is a good PC, and I didn't really hear much of a difference between them, but I had a complete Shunyata loom. But the Revelation Audio umblicals really made a difference. I would say a 15% improvement over stock. To me, when you get an audible improvement in a higher end system for $685, you can't go wrong. I think that you are gypping yourself by using two Discrete power supplies though. I would definitely get the Revelation umbilicals and the Power Base, and sell both of the Discrete power supplies to subsidize the cost of the Power Base. Then you have maximized the MSB DAC setup.
Thanks for sharing.

The Powerbase upgrade is a major investment. You could get a really good music transport or server for that money. If I had a very resolving system and budget, I would definitely consider the Powerbase upgrade. As it is, my current setup offers a very good in-between compromise that I am content with.

The last major shift in sonic improvement was when I stopped using upnp and minimserver and moved to Logitech Media Server (LMS) and Squeeze. That jump in improvement really put a smile on my face because it was zero cost on my end. My friend who is a heavy Roon user also noticed it and has since been running Roon with Squeeze endpoint on his SoTM.

I am always looking for value-for-money upgrades so it sounds like the Revelation Audio umbilicals will be my next stop. If you are a Discrete owner who has the same mindset as me, it's good to know there are other upgrade/tweak pathways that will not cost a fortune.
 
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Motoman

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In my setup, Premier has:

- slightly better micro details
- fleshes out the vocals a bit better
- more coherent sounding in extremely busy passages

I find that for PRAT and rhythm and tempo, both are similar with a muscular propulsive low end. Bass is a definite strength of MSB DACs based from my experience of these 2 units.
Thanks for that! I think that you have cured me of my subtle obsession about upgrading to the Premier (for now). Doesn't sound like $9K worth of benefits!
 
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shawnf

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Found this on X. Synergistic Research umbilical cord for MSB DAC. Not sure if this is for MSB’s entire DAC lineup - the picture shows the cord plugged into what looks like a Reference DAC.

IMG_8813.png
 

Motoman

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Jul 24, 2021
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Found this on X. Synergistic Research umbilical cord for MSB DAC. Not sure if this is for MSB’s entire DAC lineup - the picture shows the cord plugged into what looks like a Reference DAC.

View attachment 125323
I would highly recommend the Revelation Audio umbilicals for the MSB DAC. I put them in between my Discrete and Premier Power Base and there was a substantive, audible improvement in the sound over the stock ones, at least to my ears. And for $895 for the pair. A very reasonable and surprisingly good improvement over stock.
 
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Motoman

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I mentioned another "must try" tweak that I put into my system that brought things to a new level -- two Puron power conditioners. I wrote about these on another thread. These $400 plug-in devices really made a startling improvement in soundstage and instrument placement. I think that my Discrete sounds excellent. So, with the Premier Power Base, the GigaFoil, the Revelation Audio umbilicals, and now the Purons, it has taken the DAC performance to a whole different level. Highly recommended.
 
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