MSB Premier or Lampi Pacific

[ctydwn]

That is good to hear @marty.
I meant to mention that I have been enjoying the past 3 years with the Simaudio 780D v2 DAC immensely. I have only glowing things to say about their DAC, their top offering, and the preamp/monos combo, as well as Simaudio's customer service. Beautiful compact components.

The DAC's synergy with the rest of my Simaudio setup is wonderful, to my ears, and had me concerned about introducing a DAC from a different company as I can't imagine another DAC improving upon the sound. But posts around the forum gave me the confidence to give it a try and take the leap of faith. I will be sad to part with the 780D but thrilled about graduating to the Pacific. I equally enjoyed reading and learning from everyone here more about MSB, dCS, etc.

 

[christoph]

As an FYI, I moved to the Emission Lab 274B about a week ago as a replacement for the RK KR5u4G in my GG2. I think it's a meaningful and beneficial uptick. It's a more "organic" and slightly more dynamic regulator that has no down side compared to the 5U4G IMO.

Funny you seem to like the EML 274B that much.
For me the EML tubes sound a little tizzy up top.
I gave the EML 274b a LOT of hours to settle and the tizziness became less but it was still there to some small extent so I sold it.

What is the downside of the RK 5u4g for you?

 

[Golum]

That is good to hear @marty.
I meant to mention that I have been enjoying the past 3 years with the Simaudio 780D v2 DAC immensely. I have only glowing things to say about their DAC, their top offering, and the preamp/monos combo, as well as Simaudio's customer service. Beautiful compact components.

The DAC's synergy with the rest of my Simaudio setup is wonderful, to my ears, and had me concerned about introducing a DAC from a different company as I can't imagine another DAC improving upon the sound. But posts around the forum gave me the confidence to give it a try and take the leap of faith. I will be sad to part with the 780D but thrilled about graduating to the Pacific. I equally enjoyed reading and learning from everyone here more about MSB, dCS, etc.

Welcome to the Lampi family!

 

[marty]

Funny you seem to like the EML 274B that much.
For me the EML tubes sound a little tizzy up top.
I gave the EML 274b a LOT of hours to settle and the tizziness became less but it was still there to some small extent so I sold it.

What is the downside of the RK 5u4g for you?

Hi Christoph,
I think very highly of the 5U4G. Recall that when I tried the PSvane 274, I liked it, particularly for chamber, because it had a naturalness about it that was very compelling. Yet I preferred the KR 5U4G for "big" music because of its dynamics and superior low end. Post #651 here:

Lampizator Valve / Tube Rolling Review Thread

Oh Golum. You know I said don't bother with VT52? Well I hadn't tried it with the Luxman preamp. It's working damn well with it. You will have to retry all tubes with your Luxman preamp.

www.whatsbestforum.com

The EML 274B seems to have the best of both. It has a beautiful naturalness to it with excellent bass and dynamics. In comparison, the 5U4G seems to call attention to some frequencies a bit more, particularly in the lower treble, as if there was a bit of a spotlight on this part of the range. The EML274 was a bit more even across the spectrum which I may be wrongfully describing as "naturalness". I don't think I would use the descriptor of "tizzy" for any of the 3 tubes being discussed which might be a system specific term. Actually, it's one that could easily apply to my system since the Alexandrias do have the notorious Focal beryllium tweeter which has been known to be unruly in this area. Not sure why I seem to have dodged that bullet, but it was a major consideration in settling on my interconnects (MB Ultra; WBT RCA/gold and Bocchino XLR/silver terminations) and speaker cables (MB Ultra) as well as avoiding rhodium AC cables/wall outlets with a zealot's mentality.

Next up, the RK KR 242s that have been sitting in a drawer for over a year! Due to my busy COVID schedule i might actually get around to trying those shortly!
Marty

 

[Steve Williams]

So here is my question to all of you tube rollers as I am not a regular in that camp

as you all know I use KR242's and the RK-KR 5u4g

I love the KR242's so much so that I haven't yet used my set of RK-KR PX25

So I have a question about rectifier tube rolling with the KR242

I have heard very good reviews of the following as to dynamics

Shuguang gz480 as well as the 1946 Philco 5u4g rectifier with hanging filament Black plate

Any users of these rectifier tubes with KR 242 output tubes

 

[christoph]

Hi Christoph,
I think very highly of the 5U4G. Recall that when I tried the PSvane 274, I liked it, particularly for chamber, because it had a naturalness about it that was very compelling. Yet I preferred the KR 5U4G for "big" music because of its dynamics and superior low end. Post #651 here:

Lampizator Valve / Tube Rolling Review Thread

Oh Golum. You know I said don't bother with VT52? Well I hadn't tried it with the Luxman preamp. It's working damn well with it. You will have to retry all tubes with your Luxman preamp.

www.whatsbestforum.com

The EML 274B seems to have the best of both. It has a beautiful naturalness to it with excellent bass and dynamics. In comparison, the 5U4G seems to call attention to some frequencies a bit more, particularly in the lower treble, as if there was a bit of a spotlight on this part of the range. The EML274 was a bit more even across the spectrum which I may be wrongfully describing as "naturalness". I don't think I would use the descriptor of "tizzy" for any of the 3 tubes being discussed which might be a system specific term. Actually, it's one that could easily apply to my system since the Alexandrias do have the notorious Focal beryllium tweeter which has been known to be unruly in this area. Not sure why I seem to have dodged that bullet, but it was a major consideration in settling on my interconnect and speaker cables (MB Ultra) as well as avoiding rhodium AC cables/wall outlets with a zealot's mentality.

Next up, the RK KR 242s that have been sitting in a drawer for over a year! Due to my busy COVID schedule i might actually get around to trying those shortly!
Marty

Thank you Marty for your extensive and elaborate answer.

When I first got the ACME 274b I loved it for it's airyness but soon found out that for me it is dazzler and an effect tube.
The ACME works for example wonderfully in my TRP in combination with my NOS GEC KT66 that can use that additional kick in the butt to become more alive.

The EML 274b has that little tizziness/coarsness in the upper mids and treble that was only dimished after several hundred hours of use but did not go away fully and that I wasn't able to unhear.
At least that is my experience in my systems.

Yes, please try the RK 242 finally but make sure you burn them in properly before you come to conclusions. They need some hours to really shine.
Up till now you use the RK PX25, right?

 

[christoph]

So here is my question to all of you tube rollers as I am not a regular in that camp

as you all know I use KR242's and the RK-KR 5u4g

I love the KR242's so much so that I haven't yet used my set of RK-KR PX25

So I have a question about rectifier tube rolling with the KR242

I have heard very good reviews of the following as to dynamics

Shuguang gz480 as well as the 1946 Philco 5u4g rectifier with hanging filament Black plate

Any users of these rectifier tubes with KR 242 output tubes

I love the Takatsuki 274b rectifier with the 242 but also the GZ480 is an excellent recti and costs only a fraction of the Taka 274b.
The Philco I have not heard in my systems.
The RK 5u4g is also an absolutely excellent rectifier.

 

[marty]

Up till now you use the RK PX25, right?

I used the PX25's early on and enjoyed them. But I quickly moved to the standard KR 242 (bulb shaped) and found them so enticing, that I don't want to remove them! The theoretical advantages of the RK KR 242 (square shaped) such as better vacuum, better anode, thicker glass make me want to try them but I guess the standard version is so good, I've just been too lazy to pull the trigger. Since it takes about 60 seconds to swap out 2 tubes, I guess that really makes me a genuine deplorable! I'll get there eventually.......

 

[Tuckia]

Hi guys,

Is this where the roving Lampi tube rolling thread is camping for the evening?

First, congrats to @ctydwn for pulling the trigger on the Pacific. This is my favorite Lampi by a bit. There was a pretty big delta from GG to GG2, but the Pacific is much more athletic, resolved, and dimensional than the others. A marvel.

As a contrarian, I'll offer the dissenting opinion on RK242 vs. RK PX25. I've been running the RK PX25 for almost two years, so I'm rather familiar with them and they are certainly run in. Probably 4000 plus hrs. of on time. When I acquired the RK242, I only put about 80 hrs. on them. They were not that different than the PX25 version. Same sense of scale and grandness. Dynamically I found them to be very similar. The key difference in my system was tonality. The PX25 has a lower center and the 242 more upper midrange and beyond - to an annoying level. The PX25 is simply a better fit tonally for my system. No, the preamp was not distorting or overloading. To be honest, my preamp has the same type of flavor choice in output tubes. I was running the Thomson 6080's during this compare. They are much stronger in the upper mid's as well. If I had been running the GEC 6080's (which I didn't have at the time) I MAY have reversed course. They are a bit more mid-rangy. Another member is enjoying the RK242's now.

This is my ranking of output tubes that I've tried so far.

1. RK PX25 - Goldilocks
2. Shuguang BT 300b - Not as grand overall, weaker bass, more dimensional mid's, more athletic than other 300b's. Cheap! I'm sure there are other 300b's that kill this one, but haven't tried them yet.
3. RK 242 - As above
4. RCA UX 112A (1928 or so) Pleasant, but to a fault
5. Psvane 101D - OK, but nothing special.
6. KR PX4 - back up level
7. Others - don't bother.

I've been running an RK 5u4g through all of this. Now it seems to be running out of gas. Has anyone else burned through an RK rectifier yet? This tube runs much, much hotter than the outputs. Now I alternate between KR 5u4g, GEC U52, and Japanese GEC (Marconi rebrand) U52, which sounds nothing like the original, but is still pretty good.

Is the EML 274B much better than the EML 5u4g mesh? I had this beauty to try on all my Lampi's, but it just couldn't sing. Never lost it's coarseness.

To round this out. The Pacific is less fussy with output tubes that the GG variants. Cheap tubes can still sound pretty good.

 

[kernelbob]

So here is my question to all of you tube rollers as I am not a regular in that camp

as you all know I use KR242's and the RK-KR 5u4g

I love the KR242's so much so that I haven't yet used my set of RK-KR PX25

So I have a question about rectifier tube rolling with the KR242

I have heard very good reviews of the following as to dynamics

Shuguang gz480 as well as the 1946 Philco 5u4g rectifier with hanging filament Black plate

Any users of these rectifier tubes with KR 242 output tubes

Hi Steve.
Like you, I love my quad of KR-242 tubes in my Pacific. Their higher gain fits my needs perfectly (using a passive controller). Fortunately, they are also pass a neutral, realistic sound that also fits my system well. I have a Psvane A274B rectifier which sounds quite airy (in a good way), but am happy with the KR-5U4G. That in combo with the set of KR-242 resolves individual instruments so well.
Robert

 

[Steve Williams]

Robert

FWIW I use the RK-KR 5u4g

 

[bonzo75]

"Is this where the roving Lampi tube rolling thread is camping for the evening?"

Was funny

 

[howiebrou]

"Is this where the roving Lampi tube rolling thread is camping for the evening?"

Was funny

Gypsies...

 

[christoph]

Hi guys,

Is this where the roving Lampi tube rolling thread is camping for the evening?

First, congrats to @ctydwn for pulling the trigger on the Pacific. This is my favorite Lampi by a bit. There was a pretty big delta from GG to GG2, but the Pacific is much more athletic, resolved, and dimensional than the others. A marvel.

As a contrarian, I'll offer the dissenting opinion on RK242 vs. RK PX25. I've been running the RK PX25 for almost two years, so I'm rather familiar with them and they are certainly run in. Probably 4000 plus hrs. of on time. When I acquired the RK242, I only put about 80 hrs. on them. They were not that different than the PX25 version. Same sense of scale and grandness. Dynamically I found them to be very similar. The key difference in my system was tonality. The PX25 has a lower center and the 242 more upper midrange and beyond - to an annoying level. The PX25 is simply a better fit tonally for my system. No, the preamp was not distorting or overloading. To be honest, my preamp has the same type of flavor choice in output tubes. I was running the Thomson 6080's during this compare. They are much stronger in the upper mid's as well. If I had been running the GEC 6080's (which I didn't have at the time) I MAY have reversed course. They are a bit more mid-rangy. Another member is enjoying the RK242's now.

This is my ranking of output tubes that I've tried so far.

1. RK PX25 - Goldilocks
2. Shuguang BT 300b - Not as grand overall, weaker bass, more dimensional mid's, more athletic than other 300b's. Cheap! I'm sure there are other 300b's that kill this one, but haven't tried them yet.
3. RK 242 - As above
4. RCA UX 112A (1928 or so) Pleasant, but to a fault
5. Psvane 101D - OK, but nothing special.
6. KR PX4 - back up level
7. Others - don't bother.

I've been running an RK 5u4g through all of this. Now it seems to be running out of gas. Has anyone else burned through an RK rectifier yet? This tube runs much, much hotter than the outputs. Now I alternate between KR 5u4g, GEC U52, and Japanese GEC (Marconi rebrand) U52, which sounds nothing like the original, but is still pretty good.

Is the EML 274B much better than the EML 5u4g mesh? I had this beauty to try on all my Lampi's, but it just couldn't sing. Never lost it's coarseness.

To round this out. The Pacific is less fussy with output tubes that the GG variants. Cheap tubes can still sound pretty good.

Thank you!
Please post this most valuable information also in the Lampi Tube Rolling thread
I would love to answer there, not to be further OT in this thread

 

[christoph]

First, congrats to @ctydwn for pulling the trigger on the Pacific. This is my favorite Lampi by a bit. There was a pretty big delta from GG to GG2, but the Pacific is much more athletic, resolved, and dimensional than the others. A marvel.

Same here:
Congrats @ctydwn on the Pacific, you are in for a big treat
And I have to agree with Tuckia, the Pacific is above all other Lampi DACs in a league of it's own

 

[Alrainbow]

Steve there are 3 recti i would recommend
the gz480 it’s a big stage air filled sound
the us air force 596 is a solid sound but smaller stage. It’s a good tube for live making it a more intimate performance.
274b is also a good one and to get the sound type buy a ps vane replica it’s cheap and gives you a look into it. if it’s one you like then you can invest in better ones.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hi guys,

Is this where the roving Lampi tube rolling thread is camping for the evening?

First, congrats to @ctydwn for pulling the trigger on the Pacific. This is my favorite Lampi by a bit. There was a pretty big delta from GG to GG2, but the Pacific is much more athletic, resolved, and dimensional than the others. A marvel.

As a contrarian, I'll offer the dissenting opinion on RK242 vs. RK PX25. I've been running the RK PX25 for almost two years, so I'm rather familiar with them and they are certainly run in. Probably 4000 plus hrs. of on time. When I acquired the RK242, I only put about 80 hrs. on them. They were not that different than the PX25 version. Same sense of scale and grandness. Dynamically I found them to be very similar. The key difference in my system was tonality. The PX25 has a lower center and the 242 more upper midrange and beyond - to an annoying level. The PX25 is simply a better fit tonally for my system. No, the preamp was not distorting or overloading. To be honest, my preamp has the same type of flavor choice in output tubes. I was running the Thomson 6080's during this compare. They are much stronger in the upper mid's as well. If I had been running the GEC 6080's (which I didn't have at the time) I MAY have reversed course. They are a bit more mid-rangy. Another member is enjoying the RK242's now.

This is my ranking of output tubes that I've tried so far.

1. RK PX25 - Goldilocks
2. Shuguang BT 300b - Not as grand overall, weaker bass, more dimensional mid's, more athletic than other 300b's. Cheap! I'm sure there are other 300b's that kill this one, but haven't tried them yet.
3. RK 242 - As above
4. RCA UX 112A (1928 or so) Pleasant, but to a fault
5. Psvane 101D - OK, but nothing special.
6. KR PX4 - back up level
7. Others - don't bother.

I've been running an RK 5u4g through all of this. Now it seems to be running out of gas. Has anyone else burned through an RK rectifier yet? This tube runs much, much hotter than the outputs. Now I alternate between KR 5u4g, GEC U52, and Japanese GEC (Marconi rebrand) U52, which sounds nothing like the original, but is still pretty good.

Is the EML 274B much better than the EML 5u4g mesh? I had this beauty to try on all my Lampi's, but it just couldn't sing. Never lost it's coarseness.

To round this out. The Pacific is less fussy with output tubes that the GG variants. Cheap tubes can still sound pretty good.

If I read this correctly you use the RK242 and not the standard KR242 (which I use). I find the dynamics simply excel best with my system, so much so that I have a brand new set of RK-KR PX25 but they have never found their way into my system as I am a happy camper

 

[Tuckia]

If I read this correctly you use the RK242 and not the standard KR242 (which I use). I find the dynamics simply excel best with my system, so much so that I have a brand new set of RK-KR PX25 but they have never found their way into my system as I am a happy camper

Yes, they were the RK's. My takeaway in back to back swapping is that the RK PX25 and RK 242 were cut from the same cloth in comparison to anything else I've tried, however, they were tonally different. The gain difference was subtle and not worth mentioning. I suspect you will continue preferring the 242 overall. The RK version could be another happy alternate for you. When it freezes in SoCal, and you try the RK PX25, you can always PM me for disposal

 

[Steve Williams]

Well I have on the way in a Philco 1946 NOS 5u4g rectifier with hanging filament.
I like the KR242’s so much that I have had no urge to try the RK PX25 but never say never

I also have a few leads on a ShuGuang 480gz

 

[Tuckia]

Well I have on the way in a Philco 1946 NOS 5u4g rectifier with hanging filament.
I like the KR242’s so much that I have had no urge to try the RK PX25 but never say never

I also have a few leads on a ShuGuang 480gz

The Philco should be fun. Although I like the RK 5u4g overall, some of the old production cast a cleaner, blacker background.

I'd like to find a gz480. Are these available again, or from private stock? It seems that whenever a tube find falls into favor on these forums the ebay price immediately goes up and/or sells out.