MSB Reference DAC and PlayBack Systems MPD-8

[longinc]

The MSB Reference DAC + Digital Director is 2-3 x the price of the MPD-8 or MPD-8 AI (analog inputs) first of all just to get the perspectives right in terms of pricing. The Reference DAC is also soon to be discontinued.

Other than that, Massimo66 makes a valid comparison in between MSB and Playback Designs in terms of characteristics earlier in this thread. I would also recommend to add the MPD-X streamer over P-link if going the Playback Designs route.

If your budget exceeds €/$50.000 I would suggest to wait for the upcoming WADAX Studio DAC which will be revealed this year. Based on my experience with the Studio Player, this is going to be something very special indeed.

I would also add the new Master Fidelity NADAC D at approx. €/$29.000 to the mix.

/ Marcus

Thanks Marcus! The intent is to add the MPT-8 transport. I still play sacd/cd’s. And essentially have it act like the Digital director (and more since it also does reclocking in addition to other digital filtering duties). I will also connect my music server/streamer to the MPT-8. As you had mentioned the “plink” is key to isolate the DAC from the digital sources with an optical link. So once you add the MPT-8 to the MPD-8, you start getting closer to MSB Ref + Director pricing territory. Granted still not quite $70K (new) yet, but there is something to be said about MSB new prices (I think they are overpriced) esp considering their used prices (usually well over 50% less than retail) whereas PBDs (current models) hold their prices pretty well in the used market. And I do hear (reasonably consistently) that the PBD is more musical (and connects you to the gestalt of the music) even though it does not excel in the audiophile attributes the same way the MSB does. The emotional connection is more important to me than excellence in all the audiophile attributes. All boils down to preferences.

With regards to Master Fidelity, my current DAC is the Merging stack (with power), so I am somewhat familiar with that team. Also, currently, at least in the US, the DAC will not be sold standalone. They are only selling the DAC with the clock as a combo together putting them at $51K. There are some reasons (not because of the pricing)why I am hesitant to go down the Master F path at least at this time. Need to see more longevity in that brand first. Happy to connect more on additional reasons over PM.

Thank you for pointing me towards Wadax Studio DAC, and others have also pointed to the new Taiko Olympus server (with analog output card/DAC card). But those are out of my budget at this time (esp when I still have to add a sacd/cd transport), but will definitely research more about them for future reference.

 

[chuck]

I bought the Playback Designs MPT-8 and MPD-8 in February 2018 after listening to all the top DACs on the market at that time. I disagree with those who imply that the PBD is somehow lacking in detail. Not the case with my Boulder/YG rig.

 

[leungti1]

I just listened to Playback Designs MPD-8 (DAC) and MPS-8 (CD player) vs. Metronome AQWO 2+ (CD player w/ streaming and separate power supply). The speakers are ATC active ones. Metronome is slightly more musical, softer in general. Playback's strength is its huge soundstage that is deeper and taller. It is very 3D. Probably has sharper edges and not as musical vs. Metronome. But I would say they both perform at very high level with different flavors. Most interesting is that MPD-8 sounds better (and cheaper) than MPS-8 even though they are supposed to be the same other than the ability to play CD.

 

[longinc]

I just listened to Playback Designs MPD-8 (DAC) and MPS-8 (CD player) vs. Metronome AQWO 2+ (CD player w/ streaming and separate power supply). The speakers are ATC active ones. Metronome is slightly more musical, softer in general. Playback's strength is its huge soundstage that is deeper and taller. It is very 3D. Probably has sharper edges and not as musical vs. Metronome. But I would say they both perform at very high level with different flavors. Most interesting is that MPD-8 sounds better (and cheaper) than MPS-8 even though they are supposed to be the same other than the ability to play CD.

Thanks for sharing! couple of follow up questions:

1. When you did the comparison, what were the sources used for the MPD-8, MPS-8 and the Metronome?
2. Did all 3 feed the same preamp?
3. Is the MPD-8 a new unit with the new analog output section that only come with units manufactured after Aug/Sept 2024? If so, has it gone through the needed 500 hr break in?

The MPS-8 is not same (as the MPD-8) in that its disc transport, L/R channel DAC/output sections, digital processing section (filtering, reclocking etc) and streamer share 2 independent power supplies vs the MPD-8 has 3 independent power supplies: 2 for the L/R channels DAC/output and the 3rd supplyfor the digital processing (filtering, reclocking etc) section. The MPD-8 should sound better given the increased power isolation (and dedicated power) between the (fewer) sections, and it's actually more "expensive" given you are paying for less functionality (but of course it should sound better)

 

[leungti1]

Thanks for sharing! couple of follow up questions:

1. When you did the comparison, what were the sources used for the MPD-8, MPS-8 and the Metronome?
2. Did all 3 feed the same preamp?
3. Is the MPD-8 a new unit with the new analog output section that only come with units manufactured after Aug/Sept 2024? If so, has it gone through the needed 500 hr break in?

The MPS-8 is not same (as the MPD-8) in that its disc transport, L/R channel DAC/output sections, digital processing section (filtering, reclocking etc) and streamer share 2 independent power supplies vs the MPD-8 has 3 independent power supplies: 2 for the L/R channels DAC/output and the 3rd supplyfor the digital processing (filtering, reclocking etc) section. The MPD-8 should sound better given the increased power isolation (and dedicated power) between the (fewer) sections, and it's actually more "expensive" given you are paying for less functionality (but of course it should sound better)

1. It was just streaming via Tidal using internal streaming boards of Metronome and Playback Designs
2. It was a Pondera Aries Cerat tube preamp. I didn't know what it was when listening to it. But found out it costs at least 2x that of the Playback CD/DAC!! I am sure it helped a lot. But then the dealer was using ATC SCM20ASL active speakers that are the cheapest among all the components
3. I have no idea. They are Playback's distributor so I assume they may have the latest?

 

[shawnf]

I just listened to Playback Designs MPD-8 (DAC) and MPS-8 (CD player) vs. Metronome AQWO 2+ (CD player w/ streaming and separate power supply). The speakers are ATC active ones. Metronome is slightly more musical, softer in general. Playback's strength is its huge soundstage that is deeper and taller. It is very 3D. Probably has sharper edges and not as musical vs. Metronome. But I would say they both perform at very high level with different flavors. Most interesting is that MPD-8 sounds better (and cheaper) than MPS-8 even though they are supposed to be the same other than the ability to play CD.

@leungti1 You mean the MPT-8? The MPS-8 is a streaming transport only and has not CD playback support.

 

[leungti1]

@leungti1 You mean the MPT-8? The MPS-8 is a streaming transport only and has not CD playback support.

I meant MPD-8 which is a pure DAC and MPS-8 which is a CD/SACD player with DAC. Both can stream music directly.

 

[longinc]

1. It was just streaming via Tidal using internal streaming boards of Metronome and Playback Designs
2. It was a Pondera Aries Cerat tube preamp. I didn't know what it was when listening to it. But found out it costs at least 2x that of the Playback CD/DAC!! I am sure it helped a lot. But then the dealer was using ATC SCM20ASL active speakers that are the cheapest among all the components
3. I have no idea. They are Playback's distributor so I assume they may have the latest?

Thanks again. Super helpful context. Could you clarify the streaming source for the MPD-8. I ask because there is no streamer board option for the MPD-8 (i.e. there is actually no space in the chassis to add a streamer board and such an option is not listed on their website for the MPD-8). Curious whether your dealer was actually streaming from the MPS-8 via plink (their proprietary optical connection) into the MPD-8 or using some other external streamer?

 

[leungti1]

Thanks again. Super helpful context. Could you clarify the streaming source for the MPD-8. I ask because there is no streamer board option for the MPD-8 (i.e. there is actually no space in the chassis to add a streamer board and such an option is not listed on their website for the MPD-8). Curious whether your dealer was actually streaming from the MPS-8 via plink (their proprietary optical connection) into the MPD-8 or using some other external streamer?

That I am not entirely sure. He had 4 DACs connected to the preamp and was able to do A/B test on the fly (just using his remote). I am pretty sure he was using Metronome's streaming board when he played Metronome's DACs but I cannot be sure if he was using external streamers for Playback. I didn't see any anyway.

You can see the picture below. We were testing the 4 DACs/CD players on the racks in the middle. The room doesn't look well set-up so I wasn't expecting anything going in but it turned out to sound pretty good especially soundstage. There is at least 6ft of space behind the ATC bookshelf speakers. I was very surprised to be able to hear the differences between the 4 DACs so easily.

 

[longinc]

That I am not entirely sure. He had 4 DACs connected to the preamp and was able to do A/B test on the fly (just using his remote). I am pretty sure he was using Metronome's streaming board when he played Metronome's DACs but I cannot be sure if he was using external streamers for Playback. I didn't see any anyway.

You can see the picture below. We were testing the 4 DACs/CD players on the racks in the middle. The room doesn't look well set-up so I wasn't expecting anything going in but it turned out to sound pretty good especially soundstage. There is at least 6ft of space behind the ATC bookshelf speakers. I was very surprised to be able to hear the differences between the 4 DACs so easily.

Thanks again for sharing more info and the picture. Looks like the source for the MPD-8 is likely the MPX-S (Playback's standalone streamer with its own dedicated internal power supply - it's the white box sitting right below the MPS-8 in your picture). So some of the differences you are hearing is likely coming from the different streamers, output stages, and digital processing algorithms used.