The point of this thread was not to discuss the sound of the DAC. It was to discuss the modular form factor!
MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.
- Thread starter Blizzard
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The point of this thread was not to discuss the sound of the DAC. It was to discuss the modular form factor!
The intention for the modularity wasn't to increase the sound quality, it was to make it easily upgradable. I'm sure if they wanted to they could have made it sound the same by building it in a disposable form factor like most DAC's
But you said, and I quote, the reason the DAC is so expensive is the "sound quality". We know you have not heard the DAC so how did you manage to allocate the main reason for the price tag, along with cost of manufacturing, to the quality of the sound? I really would like to know.
Well obviously MSB feels the sound quality is superior to their lower end DAC's. And obviously the 50 people who pre-ordered it feel the same way. I don't think it's simply for the looks and modularity that people are buying this DAC. However, the intended discussion in this thread was supposed to be about the modular form factor. But as usual, the guys who don't have DAC's built in a modular form factor have a "personal" issue with this. Because it bruises their ego to think there's a better way to build a DAC than the one they decided to purchase, or promote.
No, that is not the case.
How many of the 50 preorders have heard the DAC? Really? Again, disclaimer, MSB makes really great stuff, and I actually at one point will audition the Analog DAC, although I heard conflicting information on whether it is being discontinued.
Nobody has a "problem" with modular DACs. Please stop playing forum martyr. The only problem is you insist it is the only way to do things. You asked other to be open minded, how about accepting the fact not every body agrees with you. Not off all of us shop based on DAC design. For me listening trumps any design implementation.
Of course MSB feels the Select is a superior product. How much profit margin do you think is built in? Do you know dealers will take 40% of that retail price for swiping a credit card, assuming there was no audition. So that DAC was sold to the dealer for $54,000. Mark up is generally 5x cost of parts. So conceivably this DAC cost MSB $10,400 to make. And somebody pays 90 grand for it.
(Disclaimer: My math may not be exact, but it is probably very close)
I'm not saying it's the only way to do things. But I am saying it's a better way to do things than to design your DAC to be disposable and worthless within a couple years. I have a graveyard full of DAC's sitting around my place. I think it's ridiculous to build a DAC to be disposable. sure if its a $200-300 USB DAC on a stick it's one thing. But once we get into $2000 plus, they all should be modular and upgradable.
Actually 5-6x BOM is MSRP. Although some rob you for even more. But unless you buy manufacturer direct, this is the kind of markup to expect. What's your point?
Whose DAC is disposable? Why all the presumptions? I had a Bryston BDA-1 DAC for SEVEN years. I am getting in the new BDA-3 next month.
I have two iFI DACs now for two years with absolutely no intention of getting rid of them for years to come.
We get what your preference is, but the market determines what works and what does not.
Not every manufacturer uses the 5x BOM for retail. It depends.
Let's even go that route..do you think it costs MSB $18,000 to built the Select? (I honestly don't know....) but that is a heck of a jump from cost of manufacturing to final cost, and it does not speak well of the economics of the modular approach. Sorry.
Well I suppose some may still own a pioneer CD player from 1988. What I'm talking about is being able to keep up with current technology without buying a new DAC. And if you desire to buy a new DAC, and sell your existing one, you don't have to take a 50-70% hit on it because it uses yesterday's crap USB interface chip that's soldered to the main board.
5-6x BOM is a rough industry standard. The modular form factor has nothing to do with this.
What DACs that do use a modular approach, that are commercially available, have you listened to?
Why would an audiophile want to chase "current technology" if they like like the sound of their DAC? For the sake of being "current"?
My Resonessence Mirus uses a very nice modular form factor. The Analog section with the DAC chips on it are removable boards. Once ESS comes out with the next gen DAC chip, it's just a matter of swapping out 2 credit sized boards that plug in to nice gold plated headers, reflash a new firmware onto the FPGA, and your up and running. There's no dedicated standalone USB chip such as Xmos or Cmedia. Instead they rolled their own interface right into the mainboard FPGA.so it can continuouslly be updated without new silicon. They also used an FPGA with enough power that years of upgrades can be done to it before it runs out of processing power. It's currently only using 40% of it's capability. There's an HDMI port on the back that can be remapped to send and receive I2S/DSD over LVDS. This way it can easily connect directly into an external Ethernet renderer device's with the same quality as having an internal renderer. So no matter where interface technology takes us, it can easily accept connection to it without compromise.
This is a $5000 DAC. Not a $90000 DAC. It doesn't take being at a $90000 price point to engineer something intelligently.
I don't think there's any drawback to higher resale value, and having the option to upgrade if you desire. Everyday I read something on this forum about guys who upgraded their DAC's. People do this in the real world.
That is all good. But what if audiophiles prefer to buy DACs they like the sound of, as opposed to any future upgradeability and other technical bullet points.
Understand not everyone buys audio components because of the design. How music sounds on the component may be something to consider.
I am not saying the Mirus is not a great DAC, I am speaking in general terms.
So if this manufacturer decided to build that DAC in a upgradeable modular form factor, would people turn their nose up at it?
If audiophiles become educated with better ways to do things, and demand manufacturers to start building their products more intelligently, maybe we will start to see more and more manufacturers doing this. But I think for now there's plenty enough out there that's designed intelligently, and sound good, that one doesn't have to look too hard. After all does there need to be 1000 DAC's built this way if all we are looking for is 1?
