MSB Select II arrival

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike

Maybe I missed it but are u using the MSB to up-sample your files or HQ Player?

nope.

we (SGM) tried up-sampling but the MSB is better 'bit-perfect'. we went back and forth with various combinations of settings over some time. which does not mean that forever in the future some sort of up-sampling with HQP might not move the needle. but not now.

with the Select II 'hybrid' dac, it optimizes both all resolutions of PCM and all resolutions of dsd the best I've heard either format. it's all played natively seamlessly.

HQP still brings some 'juice' to the table in bit-perfect mode, but I'm not techie enough to relate it.

the MSB Select has it's own algorithms for optimization; there are specific ones for redbook, and for dsd optimization that I know of. it's just that the computational power of the MSB is formidable by itself.

 

[Steve Williams]

What will you do with your SGM Mike?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What will you do with your SGM Mike?

it's still earning it's keep as the best server I know of. and HQP still 'helps'. in the context of 'uber' dacs it's about the same price as your USB cable.

when the new MSB renderer is finally here and I can compare Ethernet to the USB SGM then we could be at a decision point. but we are not yet there.

 

[Steve Williams]

So you use it as a server but not HQP. It always made more sense to me that native through the Select ll would be best

 

[Mike Lavigne]

So youbuse it as a server but not HQP. It always made more sense to me that native through the Select ll would be best

I wrote above that HQP still brings juice to the equation in 'bit-perfect' mode. did you miss that?

 

[Steve Williams]

I wrote above that HQP still brings juice to the equation in 'bit-perfect' mode. did you miss that?

I guess I did but I'm confused...you are not using HQP to upsample files but could you help me understand how it is used in bit perfect mode

 

[Armsan]

Mike,
How and with what, will you try the future renderer?
Does your SGM have DHCP server?, or will You use a Melco or any other similar device?
Thanks.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I guess I did but I'm confused...you are not using HQP to upsample files but could you help me understand how it is used in bit perfect mode

as I wrote above....."I'm not techie enough to relate it".

all methods of pushing 'bit-perfect' data from the server to your dac are not equal. HQP has it's own method and ways of adding performance, or maybe it's ways of 'preventing' less performance.

but lets either continue this on another thread or move on from this subject.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike,
How and with what, will you try the future renderer?
Does your SGM have DHCP server?, or will You use a Melco or any other similar device?
Thanks.

I have 'twin' mirroring Synology 30 terabyte NAS's.....which would be used with Ethernet.

if some sort of device is needed to assist the NAS that is beyond my knowledge at this point. my son the network engineer would put that together for me.

 

[Armsan]

Yes Mike, You will.
Some control point and library manager must send the files from your NAS to the MSB Renderer Module.
Please, avoid switches in the path. Because my files are stored in my PC, I don't need any other device.
The best results, in my system, were achived installing a DHCP server software witch gives the IP address to the renderer. Sometimes, less is more/better.
But, there are others an better solutions, of course.
Regards.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes Mike, You will.
Some control point and library manager must send the files from your NAS to the MSB Renderer Module.
Please, avoid switches in the path. Because my files are stored in my PC, I don't need any other device.
The best results, in my system, were achived installing a DHCP server software witch gives the IP address to the renderer. Sometimes, less is more/better.
But, there are others an better solutions, of course.
Regards.

I will need to look into that (have my son figure it out).

in the back of my mind I knew this but had not really thought about it.

maybe this device can reside on the NAS? or just connect to the NAS out of the signal path?

this subject likely needs it's own thread. just when I get a feel for USB and servers my world gets flipped.

 

[Priaptor]

I guess I did but I'm confused...you are not using HQP to upsample files but could you help me understand how it is used in bit perfect mode

Hi Steve,

I have used HQPlayer like Mike/SGM is using it with the Select II as well as with other MSB dacs I have owned. You just set no filters and no upsampling and then it just acts like a player. However, it does convert to 24bits acting as just "a player". When I reached out to Jussi, he indicated that there should be "no difference" between his program being used in this format vs. Roon direct. We have all, including the SGM folks, have had are opinions on this. Not sure if Jussi has ever heard the Select II.

So in this case, Roon-->HQPlayer without any filters or upsampling; SGM may or may not be engaging some of the Jussi's other features, not sure.

 

[Priaptor]

Yes Mike, You will.
Some control point and library manager must send the files from your NAS to the MSB Renderer Module.
Please, avoid switches in the path. Because my files are stored in my PC, I don't need any other device.
The best results, in my system, were achived installing a DHCP server software witch gives the IP address to the renderer. Sometimes, less is more/better.
But, there are others an better solutions, of course.
Regards.

That is one way. The "new renderer" as I understand will also act as a Roon Endpoint.

 

[asiufy]

Hi,

Allow me to help...
First, the new MSB Renderer will be Roon compatible, which will require Mike to install Roon Core either on his NAS, another computer, or to continue using the SGM purely as a Roon Core device (and not connected via USB to the DAC anymore). I've done the tests, and the SGM sounds considerably better as my Roon Core vs a run of the mill QNAP NAS.

DHCP is a network protocol that has nothing to do with audio, and has nothing to do with the matter at hand, so I suggest we leave yet another IT acronym out of this

As for Steve's question, I believe we've been through this... But HQplayer doesn't necessarily have to upsample to render a benefit, and that's the case with the MSBs. When it is enabled in the SGM, outputting bit perfect via USB, it sounds considerably better than going via Roon direct to the USB of the MSB DAC, in both cases with NO upsampling whatsoever.

 

[Priaptor]

Hi,

Allow me to help...
First, the new MSB Renderer will be Roon compatible, which will require Mike to install Roon Core either on his NAS, another computer, or to continue using the SGM purely as a Roon Core device (and not connected via USB to the DAC anymore). I've done the tests, and the SGM sounds considerably better as my Roon Core vs a run of the mill QNAP NAS.

DHCP is a network protocol that has nothing to do with audio, and has nothing to do with the matter at hand, so I suggest we leave yet another IT acronym out of this

As for Steve's question, I believe we've been through this... But HQplayer doesn't necessarily have to upsample to render a benefit, and that's the case with the MSBs. When it is enabled in the SGM, outputting bit perfect via USB, it sounds considerably better than going via Roon direct to the USB of the MSB DAC, in both cases with NO upsampling whatsoever.

I believe he meant DLNA, but I will leave it him to explain his DHCP comments.

 

[asiufy]

I believe he meant DLNA, but I will leave it him to explain his DHCP comments.

Ah, could be That makes more sense. The previous Renderer was indeed only DLNA/UPNP compatible, and would require different server software to be installed on the NAS/computer. With Roon, things will get considerably easier (and why not, better!)


cheers,
alex

 

[Priaptor]

Ah, could be That makes more sense. The previous Renderer was indeed only DLNA/UPNP compatible, and would require different server software to be installed on the NAS/computer. With Roon, things will get considerably easier (and why not, better!)


cheers,
alex

With version 1.3 Roon has gotten considerably better in many ways, including SQ.

 

[KeithR]

I had a full day demo of the MSB Reference DAC in my system yesterday courtesy of Alex (asiufy) - to say I was impressed is an understatement.

What first struck me was how relaxed the presentation was - just like good analog, but not like old school "swingin'" turntables. I also heard decay that was astounding coming from a digital source (all 16/44 fyi). There was no sheen added however and transparency was clearly in a new direction - for instance, vocals had a sense of inflection and undulation that was higher than any reference I've heard. On my Jarvis Cocker album, I quipped that I could feel the movements in his throat which made it feel like he was literally in front of us. The MSB also had remarkable drive - surely in part due to its 50lb (!) power supply. On Bonzo's favorite Reiner, it really made me feel like I was in Disney Hall even compared with my Brinkmann-based analog system...but I wasn't picking out parts of the recording. It was a very holistic experience.

Most of the time, "better digital" means more detail - what I have stewed upon over the past 24 hours is that with the MSB that wasn't my focus and it went beyond those boundaries. I also understand now why the digital vs. analog comparisons are somewhat tiring to Mike and not terribly important. And yes, we did a half dozen vinyl/MSB swaps on both analog and digital recordings. I don't think there was necessarily a winner or loser on *all* tracks. I just think MSB has taken a leap into new territory where it doesn't sound quite digital or analog at all. It really is its own reference.

We also did swaps using my Music First TVC preamp vs. the MSB internal version - this was a slight area of disagreement between Alex and I, but I preferred the transformer-based passive's more realistic tone and timbre as well as drive and "umph." I just found the internal version thin in a few spots. Alex thought the internal version was a hair more transparent. I wonder if at the Select level, which has no filter, if the results would change.

So where does it leave me? I feel that if I didn't have a vinyl collection, saving up for a Ref Dac would be my first priority and its such an easy, well-integrated solution. Having a small record collection and decent analog rig complicates the thought process but I will work through it over the next few weeks.

I also find it interesting that Bonzo and I disagree quite a bit on the sound of the MSB - i think this is one area that having a well-developed, house system helps.

 

[Steve Williams]

As for Steve's question, I believe we've been through this... But HQplayer doesn't necessarily have to upsample to render a benefit, and that's the case with the MSBs. When it is enabled in the SGM, outputting bit perfect via USB, it sounds considerably better than going via Roon direct to the USB of the MSB DAC, in both cases with NO upsampling whatsoever.

Thanks Alex

That is what I was struggling to understand

 

[bonzo75]

keith, we do not disagree on the sound of the MSB. We have different compare references. I did like the MSB through AR. And you have the AR. Not as much as the analog or as the Lampi. This is one area where having different compare references with better systems help