I personally feel some companies don't chase the SW update faze. Maybe MSB feels their current version can't be improved enough to justify an update.
MSB Select II arrival
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
I tend to agree…I asked my dealer recently if there were any MSB Select changes on the horizon and he indicated that basically they aren’t yet able to produce anything better. I guess that’s why the focus has been on reconfiguring how the various DAC’s are bundled together and extending the amplifier range. One would think though that there should be things that can be evolved….
since the dac chips themselves have sufficient gain to eliminate any analogue output gain stage, and the volume attenuation is passive, not sure gain adjustment by input or format is doable as the product is laid out, other than digitally, which would likely reduce performance.
balance might be simpler but maybe not. the passive attenuator hardware is not modular as far as i know.
i'm just connecting dots and guessing about this. not pooh poohing your ideas, only how they fit with basic concept of the product. an active preamp approach would likely be necessary. and that could be a positive thing for some.
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Well if I'm listening to a PCM file at say 60 I see no reason why if a DSD file comes up the vol can't go to 66...
Some kind of flag identifier has to be there ....u can't mute a DSD file in Native mode
If I select a certain input I also can't see why not that input can't be tagged with a +/- vol setting
I to am connecting dots also but it all seems logical.....
Some kind of flag identifier has to be there ....u can't mute a DSD file in Native mode
If I select a certain input I also can't see why not that input can't be tagged with a +/- vol setting
I to am connecting dots also but it all seems logical.....
hope they can do that for you.
in my experience i need the full 98db of passive gain for optimal performance. so there seems to be no analog headroom for that, although there could maybe be a preset 'cut' for certain inputs or formats. but i'm not using the Select as my preamp, so outputting line level. you are using it as your volume control. and using the MSB amps so a different gain relationship likely.
Hello yes there is a fairly noticeable improvement, more precise on the voices, better spatialization, it's not wow but it's better
I struggle with the comment that the software cannot improve the product. The software was written with the hardware spec and experience in hand. With that I am sure it is released as best when released. But knowledge advances. The software is a major component in the pursuit of audio greatness.
I do think that the industry struggles with their business model. I believe that companies struggle with how to optimally monetize gains due to software. The industry is a hardware driven one. If a company finds a material gain in sonic performance and it's purely software based, how do they realize that gain? Consider two scenarios - both with identical sonic improvement. A) Company X releases a new piece of hardware. B) Company X releases a software upgrade. It may very well be that the R&D costs are the same but I suspect that most people would bristle at material costs in scenario (B). I do not mean this in ANYWAY targeted at MSB. I know they make great stuff and that they are top-notch. My post is more pointed at what I believe to be a need for business model evolution. If dCS (which I own) charged an annual licensing fee or even an upgrade fee for software I would be fine with that. I would actually appreciate it because I believe it would cost less than paying for a new piece of hardware plus the costs of software development embedded therein.
I do think that the industry struggles with their business model. I believe that companies struggle with how to optimally monetize gains due to software. The industry is a hardware driven one. If a company finds a material gain in sonic performance and it's purely software based, how do they realize that gain? Consider two scenarios - both with identical sonic improvement. A) Company X releases a new piece of hardware. B) Company X releases a software upgrade. It may very well be that the R&D costs are the same but I suspect that most people would bristle at material costs in scenario (B). I do not mean this in ANYWAY targeted at MSB. I know they make great stuff and that they are top-notch. My post is more pointed at what I believe to be a need for business model evolution. If dCS (which I own) charged an annual licensing fee or even an upgrade fee for software I would be fine with that. I would actually appreciate it because I believe it would cost less than paying for a new piece of hardware plus the costs of software development embedded therein.
Hi everyone,
I'm posting this here since it's the biggest/most active MSB DAC thread even though my questions are about the Premier and not the Select II, I hope that's ok. I'm getting a fully loaded Premier DAC in a couple of days and I read the entirety of this thread in anticipation (I learned a lot, especially about the differences between analog and digital
but I still have a couple of questions or things I need advice on:
1. I'll be getting the DAC bundled with most input modules that MSB makes for it (ProUSB. Network V2, AES/EBU, SPDIF). From what I've read the ProUSB seems like the most well regarded, especially for its ability to isolate the incoming signal into the DAC. Has anyone compared the ProUSB to the Network V2? The Network V2 does have the added plus for me of being Roon-certified, so I wonder if the sound quality for Roon is better with the ProUSB or the Network Renderer.
2. Also, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal source component is for feeding the DAC. I was going to look into highly rated dedicated servers (Taiko, Anitpodes, Grimm etc) but the reports about the ProUSB (and to a lesser extent other inputs) isolating the DAC enough from the source that noise etc don't matter got me wondering if I shouldn't just keep my current source (a very powerful dedicated PC) and spend my money on other things. Or is it your opinion that a dedicated server still has sonic benefits?
3. Finally, related to the question above, I'm thinking about using HQPlayer in conjunction with the Premier. I know that MSB advises not to upsample music for their DACs, however I've had great success with other DACs in the past upsampling my music to DSD512 (or even DSD1024). So I'm wondering if anyone has tried to use HQPlayer and if it made an impact or not. I think someone here mentioned that they were in conversations with MSB about making the Network Renderer NAA compliant so it can be used with HQP, has there been any movement on that?
Thanks in advance if anyone can answer any of on these questions. And in any case, super excited for this DAC and looking forward to one day trading it in for a Reference or Select II !
I'm posting this here since it's the biggest/most active MSB DAC thread even though my questions are about the Premier and not the Select II, I hope that's ok. I'm getting a fully loaded Premier DAC in a couple of days and I read the entirety of this thread in anticipation (I learned a lot, especially about the differences between analog and digital
but I still have a couple of questions or things I need advice on:1. I'll be getting the DAC bundled with most input modules that MSB makes for it (ProUSB. Network V2, AES/EBU, SPDIF). From what I've read the ProUSB seems like the most well regarded, especially for its ability to isolate the incoming signal into the DAC. Has anyone compared the ProUSB to the Network V2? The Network V2 does have the added plus for me of being Roon-certified, so I wonder if the sound quality for Roon is better with the ProUSB or the Network Renderer.
2. Also, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal source component is for feeding the DAC. I was going to look into highly rated dedicated servers (Taiko, Anitpodes, Grimm etc) but the reports about the ProUSB (and to a lesser extent other inputs) isolating the DAC enough from the source that noise etc don't matter got me wondering if I shouldn't just keep my current source (a very powerful dedicated PC) and spend my money on other things. Or is it your opinion that a dedicated server still has sonic benefits?
3. Finally, related to the question above, I'm thinking about using HQPlayer in conjunction with the Premier. I know that MSB advises not to upsample music for their DACs, however I've had great success with other DACs in the past upsampling my music to DSD512 (or even DSD1024). So I'm wondering if anyone has tried to use HQPlayer and if it made an impact or not. I think someone here mentioned that they were in conversations with MSB about making the Network Renderer NAA compliant so it can be used with HQP, has there been any movement on that?
Thanks in advance if anyone can answer any of on these questions. And in any case, super excited for this DAC and looking forward to one day trading it in for a Reference or Select II !
Thank you! Hqplayer can be used to upsample and upconvert any music source local or streaming to great effect with other dacs which is why I was wondering if it’s recommended for the msb or not.
I saw the OP of this thread did a lot of experimentation with HQP when he got the select but this was 6 years ago. So wanted to see if anyone has more recent experience.
Hi,Hi everyone,
I'm posting this here since it's the biggest/most active MSB DAC thread even though my questions are about the Premier and not the Select II, I hope that's ok. I'm getting a fully loaded Premier DAC in a couple of days and I read the entirety of this thread in anticipation (I learned a lot, especially about the differences between analog and digital
1. I'll be getting the DAC bundled with most input modules that MSB makes for it (ProUSB. Network V2, AES/EBU, SPDIF). From what I've read the ProUSB seems like the most well regarded, especially for its ability to isolate the incoming signal into the DAC. Has anyone compared the ProUSB to the Network V2? The Network V2 does have the added plus for me of being Roon-certified, so I wonder if the sound quality for Roon is better with the ProUSB or the Network Renderer.
2. Also, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal source component is for feeding the DAC. I was going to look into highly rated dedicated servers (Taiko, Anitpodes, Grimm etc) but the reports about the ProUSB (and to a lesser extent other inputs) isolating the DAC enough from the source that noise etc don't matter got me wondering if I shouldn't just keep my current source (a very powerful dedicated PC) and spend my money on other things. Or is it your opinion that a dedicated server still has sonic benefits?
3. Finally, related to the question above, I'm thinking about using HQPlayer in conjunction with the Premier. I know that MSB advises not to upsample music for their DACs, however I've had great success with other DACs in the past upsampling my music to DSD512 (or even DSD1024). So I'm wondering if anyone has tried to use HQPlayer and if it made an impact or not. I think someone here mentioned that they were in conversations with MSB about making the Network Renderer NAA compliant so it can be used with HQP, has there been any movement on that?
Thanks in advance if anyone can answer any of on these questions. And in any case, super excited for this DAC and looking forward to one day trading it in for a Reference or Select II !
can’t help you with comparisons but I’m glad to share my experience.
Premiere is really shining in my system using Pro USB from Innuos Statement server/streamer, running Sense App over Roon in my experience.
The SQ is not immune from the server, just changing the way I feed the Statement (Puritan 156 vs PS Audio P20) has an impact, not subtle. IMO the server matters.
Looking forward to hear opinions from other members who had the chance to compare Statement vs Pink Faun 2.16 vs Taiko with their own MSB DAC.
Congratulation on your new DAC
Rendere V2 is a bit more thicker in the overall sound then the ProUSB.
to my knowlage HQPlayer have testing period, try the software and buy it only if you like its performance (from short experience, HQPlayer is can be great)
I have MSB Premier with ProUSB and Renderer V2, the ProUSB sound is more focused, have more clarity, and better dark background in compare to the Renderer V2.
Rendere V2 is a bit more thicker in the overall sound then the ProUSB.
It's worth investing in good server, even if connected to the ProUSB, a dedicated server will take your DAC performance to the next level (written from personal experiance).
I used too have DAC that was able to sample everything to DSD512, still the MSB blow it using native files.
to my knowlage HQPlayer have testing period, try the software and buy it only if you like its performance (from short experience, HQPlayer is can be great)
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I've been using HQPlayer for 2 years with various DACs. Starting with Chord Dave and then later with the Discrete and now the Premier DAC. My upsampling preference is PCM to DSD256 with some heavy duty filters. For me, the most obvious changes are the increase in acoustic mass and a smoother top end and less fatiguing sound.Hi everyone,
I'm posting this here since it's the biggest/most active MSB DAC thread even though my questions are about the Premier and not the Select II, I hope that's ok. I'm getting a fully loaded Premier DAC in a couple of days and I read the entirety of this thread in anticipation (I learned a lot, especially about the differences between analog and digital
1. I'll be getting the DAC bundled with most input modules that MSB makes for it (ProUSB. Network V2, AES/EBU, SPDIF). From what I've read the ProUSB seems like the most well regarded, especially for its ability to isolate the incoming signal into the DAC. Has anyone compared the ProUSB to the Network V2? The Network V2 does have the added plus for me of being Roon-certified, so I wonder if the sound quality for Roon is better with the ProUSB or the Network Renderer.
2. Also, I'm trying to figure out what the ideal source component is for feeding the DAC. I was going to look into highly rated dedicated servers (Taiko, Anitpodes, Grimm etc) but the reports about the ProUSB (and to a lesser extent other inputs) isolating the DAC enough from the source that noise etc don't matter got me wondering if I shouldn't just keep my current source (a very powerful dedicated PC) and spend my money on other things. Or is it your opinion that a dedicated server still has sonic benefits?
3. Finally, related to the question above, I'm thinking about using HQPlayer in conjunction with the Premier. I know that MSB advises not to upsample music for their DACs, however I've had great success with other DACs in the past upsampling my music to DSD512 (or even DSD1024). So I'm wondering if anyone has tried to use HQPlayer and if it made an impact or not. I think someone here mentioned that they were in conversations with MSB about making the Network Renderer NAA compliant so it can be used with HQP, has there been any movement on that?
Thanks in advance if anyone can answer any of on these questions. And in any case, super excited for this DAC and looking forward to one day trading it in for a Reference or Select II !
That said, HQPlayer is supposed to work best with NOS DACs like the Holo May where you can reach crazy upsampling levels. Jussi, the developer of HQPlayer, says (not paraphrasing here) OS DACs like the MSB already use their own reconstruction filters that bypasses HQPlayer's own filters.
Interestingly, an MSB vendor in Japan recently posted on X (see photo attached) that with the Digital Director, one can set an MSB DAC to filter bypass mode, hence turning it into a full NOS DAC. If someone from MSB could verify it would be great. Of course, I highly doubt anyone would spend that kind of money just to turn their DAC into a NOS DAC. But in this hobby, who can say.
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Hi, congrats from me as well, and enjoy the music!Hi everyone,
I'm posting this here since it's the biggest/most active MSB DAC thread even though my questions are about the Premier and not the Select II, I hope that's ok. I'm getting a fully loaded Premier DAC in a couple of days and I read the entirety of this thread in anticipation (I learned a lot, especially about the differences between analog and digital
1. I'll be getting the DAC bundled with most input modules that MSB makes for it (ProUSB. Network V2, AES/EBU, SPDIF). From what I've read the ProUSB seems like the most well regarded, especially for its ability to isolate the incoming signal into the DAC.
Thanks in advance if anyone can answer any of on these questions. And in any case, super excited for this DAC and looking forward to one day trading it in for a Reference or Select II !
I used to have the Select II, not your Premier, but I can offer two tips that enhanced the sound of my Select (subjectively, more clarity and a sense of immediacy):
1) plugging the Select into an AC filter (such as a Furmann);
2) Adding a reclocker ; at the time, I had daisy-chained two of these
Source was (and still is) a modded fanless Minix with an aftermarket LPS. I am not saying a dedicated server won;t help, just that I was (and still am) OK with the PC for the time being...
Thanks for that. A Digital Director is not yet on the cards for me but maybe someday. May I ask which filters you use with HQP on the Premier? Also why only DSD256? I think the ProUSB model can take up to DSD512 no?
Thanks
Thanks for the tips!
I'm using a PS Audio P12 Powerplant with all my gear which really helps. As for a reclocker, I've read great things about the Premier's internal clock, so I'll try that first. But maybe in the future.
Great to hear a PC-based source works well with the DAC. I might try a dedicated server one day, but for now I'll try to make it work with my super powerful PC (i9-13900KRTX 4090), which can handle any HQPlayer filter.
I am using Sinc-MGa with EC7 Super modulator. Sinc-MGa is a good compromise as it has a lot of taps while also being an apodizing filter (I think). I am also using the Pro USB module with the source being my Antipodes CX.
I don't use DSD512 firstly because I don't hear much of an improvement going from DSD256 to DSD512. At least the difference is not really that audible on my system. YMMV as always.
I also observed that at DSD512, playing songs sampled within the 48khz rate family would lead to major stuttering, regardless of what modulator I used. If I set the songs to be resampled to 44.1khz rate family then it works fine but the tradeoff was a slight decrease in sound quality. Upsampling songs to DSD512 from native 44.1khz rate family was fine as long as I used lightweight modulators like the EC7 Light.
Hope that helps.
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