Multiple Components on Active or Pneumatic Isolation Platforms

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
I think a direct comparison of very heavy and very expensive stands (e.g., CMS versus HRS) is, like a direct comparison of giant speaker systems (e.g., Rockport Arrakis versus VSA Ultra 11), in the class of direct comparisons which, though interesting and illuminating, that is never going to happen.

Only Tang, with CMS and Stacore stands, is even theoretically in a position to make such a direct comparison, but the difficulty of swapping the components in the stands makes a direct comparison practically impossible.

Very true sir. Using just one piece of equipment switching b/w racks I also believe is not enough to make a call. You have to use a few equipments better yet the whole system to be sure. Even if anyone goes through the trouble to a/b them, he could likely comment only on a macro level if he wasnt overconfident of his hearing memory. I personally factor in the hearing memory loss every time I could not switch gears within five minutes especially those with heavy weight that make my heart race. For me, Before I could say something in public I have to be damn sure the differences I hear can be repeated and that I repeatedly doing a/b's at least a few times. With these heavy objects, I cant imagine anyone do it more than once if that ever happen at all.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ron Resnick

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Comparing racks. That's what's in Ked's Room 101 when he shuffles this mortal coil. Dante has no idea.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
I think a direct comparison of very heavy and very expensive stands (e.g., CMS versus HRS) is, like a direct comparison of giant speaker systems (e.g., Rockport Arrakis versus VSA Ultra 11), in the class of direct comparisons which, though interesting and illuminating, that is never going to happen...

...Herzan/Accurion versus Stacore Basic certainly is a doable comparison.

Big CMS or HRS stand versus Herzan or Stacore platform on a modest stand is a doable comparison.

For me, I see 3 basic options in 'overly simplistic terms':

OPTIONS
1. individual passive solutions: SRA, Stillpoints, CMS Footers, HRS M3X shelves, etc
2. individual active solutions: Taiko, Herzan, Stacore
3. full shelf solutions: Artesania Esoteric, HRS VRX, SRA Craz

The 3rd option takes a bigger upfront cost and a reasonable amount of foresight (how many shelves to buy? what configuration?)...which could mean considering option 3 may not simply be a matter of what sounds best, but also what is practical.

So setting that one aside, the question I am interested in is:
Option 1 vs 2: the individual passive solutions vs the individual active solutions

Any guidance there for those who might have compared their custom SRA shelf or HRS M3X shelf to a Stacore, Herzan or Taiko?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Here is a snip from a [very generic] polytechnic blog: https://blog.polytechinc.com/passive-and-active-isolation-systems...whats-the-difference

"In most scenarios, an active isolation system is used in conjunction with a passive isolation system. An accelerometer is attached to a stationary object which includes the passive vibration isolators. The accelerometer can detect a vibration transmitted from the passive vibration isolators. A controller then analyses the frequency and amplitude of the vibration and outputs a feedback signal. An electromagnetic transducer receives the feedback signal and creates a force that cancels out the vibration. "
 

dcc

VIP/Donor
Nov 4, 2012
650
1,270
1,230
Continental Europe -
For me, I see 3 basic options in 'overly simplistic terms':

OPTIONS
1. individual passive solutions: SRA, Stillpoints, CMS Footers, HRS M3X shelves, etc
2. individual active solutions: Taiko, Herzan, Stacore
3. full shelf solutions: Artesania Esoteric, HRS VRX, SRA Craz

The 3rd option takes a bigger upfront cost and a reasonable amount of foresight (how many shelves to buy? what configuration?)...which could mean considering option 3 may not simply be a matter of what sounds best, but also what is practical.

So setting that one aside, the question I am interested in is:
Option 1 vs 2: the individual passive solutions vs the individual active solutions

Any guidance there for those who might have compared their custom SRA shelf or HRS M3X shelf to a Stacore, Herzan or Taiko?

Don't forget that Stacore also offers full shelf solutions. I had to choice between HRS and Stacore and I opted by the latter considering the full customization options.
 
Last edited:

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Good to know!!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Thank you! Epic indeed!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stacore

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Who has an active isolation (Herzan, Accurion) or a pneumatic isolation (Vibraplane, Stacore) platform who has compared the efficacy of the platform when placing two components on the platform (one component on top of the other) versus one component on the platform?

Does the component sitting directly on the platform experience the greatest vibration isolation?

Hey Ron,

Check this one out...https://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/ts-series-upgrades.html

Looks like you can put the entire Herzan and equipment inside what appears to be a soundproof cabinet/chamber. I wonder if you could have the manufacturer build 1-2 shelves in for 1-2 further Herzans with equipment...and end up with 3 of these chambers for much/most of your equipment? Talk about undisturbed...I presume they have worked out how to get power inside this chamber from the outside.
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,231
13,023
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Hey Ron,

Check this one out...https://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/ts-series-upgrades.html

Looks like you can put the entire Herzan and equipment inside what appears to be a soundproof cabinet/chamber. I wonder if you could have the manufacturer build 1-2 shelves in for 1-2 further Herzans with equipment...and end up with 3 of these chambers for much/most of your equipment? Talk about undisturbed...I presume they have worked out how to get power inside this chamber from the outside.

If practical this is actually a good idea as you would be surprised to see how your equipment is exited by for example normal conversation.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
Unfortunately that does not work, we did have a setup combining the AVI and TS series that did not osccilate but it did not improve anything over a single TS either.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work. It means there isn't a benefit because there are not enough vibrations to surpass a single unit.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
4,231
13,023
1,925
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Who has an active isolation (Herzan, Accurion) or a pneumatic isolation (Vibraplane, Stacore) platform who has compared the efficacy of the platform when placing two components on the platform (one component on top of the other) versus one component on the platform?

I would pick placing 2 components on their own passive solutions over stacking them on a single active solution.

Does the platform improve the vibration isolation of both components?

It does but as the applied correction involves a feedback loop from the stacked components as a whole measured from the bottom of the bottom device you can see its not optimal.

Does the platform improve the vibration isolation of either component less effectively than if the component were on the platform by itself?
Yes, although we have to think in broader terms then just “isolation”.

Isolation platforms are expensive. To what extent can we pile components onto the platform and improve the vibration isolation of each component in the stack?

Again I would choose multiple cheaper isolation platforms over single expensive ones (assuming both types are operating well)

What is the effect of the feet of each component as you place one component on top of another? Do rubber feet reduce the vibration isolation effectiveness of the platform below?

I’m afraid thats a total turkey shoot, its virtually impossible to predict total system behaviour, especially with multiple masses and springs (rubber is a spring), reasonably stiff platforms and equipment count as mass, although some equipment may aswell be classified as a spring :D

Does the component sitting directly on the platform experience the greatest vibration isolation?

Its important to grasp the concept that when you stack / combine multiple objects you create a construct in which its impossible to determine, without advanced modelling, which needs data you dont have, or measuring, which does not tell you everything either, how that whole construct is going to behave. And then what this will actually mean for your sound.

In this case, keeping it simple gives you better manageable and predictable results.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing